Coronavirus Information...who do you trust?

[Au165]

(10-27-2020, 08:37 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: How many flu seasons have killed +226K people (and counting) in the US alone?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/flu-vs-covid19.htm

Imagine during the AIDS pandemic someone engaging in risky behavior one time without negative results and deciding that made the whole thing "bullshit". Disregard all the death in the country and around the globe, their own singular experience was the only thing that they needed to shape their whole view. I'm sure if social media was around back then it would be saturated with people claiming having to wear condoms and get tested was a violation of their rights or something.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-27-2020, 08:42 AM)Au165 Wrote: Imagine during the AIDS pandemic someone engaging in risky behavior one time without negative results and deciding that made the whole thing "bullshit". Disregard all the death in the country and around the globe, their own singular experience was the only thing that they needed to shape their whole view. I'm sure if social media was around back then it would be saturated with people claiming having to wear condoms and get tested was a violation of their rights or something.

I smoked a cigarette one time. No lung cancer. Nothing. I think it’s all bullshit.

[Mickeypoo]

(10-27-2020, 06:50 AM)Nati#1 Wrote: I believe its all bullshit. I think its real, but nothing more than the regular flu. Hell i was just in vegas on fremont street CROWDED no mask.. I got tested when i came back..nothing.

Yup, lots of fearmongering going on.

[Au165]

(10-27-2020, 08:52 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Yup, lots of fearmongering going on.

Out of curiosity, what death rate makes it serious? I am serious here, when does it cross over into serious for you?

[Mickeypoo]

(10-27-2020, 08:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: Out of curiosity, what death rate makes it serious? I am serious here, when does it cross over into serious for you?

Millions

Survival rate is in the extreme high 90's.

Mask up, social distance if you can and live as normal imo. 

[*PhilHos*]

(10-27-2020, 08:56 AM)Au165 Wrote: Out of curiosity, what death rate makes it serious? I am serious here, when does it cross over into serious for you?

According to the CDC, in 2017, the leading cause of death in the US was heart disease. It killed almost 650,000 Americans that year. Now, I know there are plenty of researchers looking to find cures and treatments and that there is some push to make behavioral changes to lower the risks but those are usually made at the individual level. Where was the same worry? The same concern?

I get it. COVID is a virus which is contagious and you get it from other people whereas heart disease is not. I am also not saying we shouldn't mask up/social distance/try to lower the amount of infected/deaths, but heart disease killed about 3 times more in 2017 alone than COVID has yet no national discussion about lowering the #1 killer in America (in 2017 anyways). 

[Au165]

(10-27-2020, 09:00 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Millions

Survival rate is in the extreme high 90's.

Mask up, social distance if you can and live as normal imo. 

Here is the crazy thing about "survival rates", while the number seems good, when the infection rate is so high it's about as dumb of reasoning as one can use. Let's say I have a disease with a survival rate of 25% (meaning 75% will die), but is not easily transmitted and is controlled to only 10,000 cases. That would mean 7,500 people will have died from it. Now, I have a disease that is a super spreader that has infected 8 Million people but has a survival rate of 97% (meaning only 3% die). That would mean 240,000 people died.

Which disease was a bigger issue?

[Au165]

(10-27-2020, 09:04 AM)PhilHos Wrote: According to the CDC, in 2017, the leading cause of death in the US was heart disease. It killed almost 650,000 Americans that year. Now, I know there are plenty of researchers looking to find cures and treatments and that there is some push to make behavioral changes to lower the risks but those are usually made at the individual level. Where was the same worry? The same concern?

I get it. COVID is a virus which is contagious and you get it from other people whereas heart disease is not. I am also not saying we shouldn't mask up/social distance/try to lower the amount of infected/deaths, but heart disease killed about 3 times more in 2017 alone than COVID has yet no national discussion about lowering the #1 killer in America (in 2017 anyways). 

Heart disease can't be spread from person to person, is this a real attempt at an equivalency? You literally use it, then dismiss it yourself for the obvious fallacy, then go back to using it.  You are "whatabout'ing" diseases and that is sad. While I feel bad for those that die from heart disease, that is something that accumulates from YEARS of lifestyle choices that often are a direct relation to one's own decisions. A communicable disease is not anything like heart disease.

[*Nately120*]

(10-27-2020, 01:53 AM)BFritz21 Wrote:

Way too totally take it out of context and change the subject to avoid admitting that you were wrong.

1.  Just stating facts off of actual events.

2.  It was pointing out the irony and hypocrisy, which isn't really a personal attack.

I'll take a page out of your book for this one. 

 


It's not you specifically, it's just interesting how the first page of the neo-con handbook has become "declare yourself a victim."

[*Nately120*]

(10-27-2020, 09:04 AM)PhilHos Wrote: According to the CDC, in 2017, the leading cause of death in the US was heart disease. It killed almost 650,000 Americans that year. Now, I know there are plenty of researchers looking to find cures and treatments and that there is some push to make behavioral changes to lower the risks but those are usually made at the individual level. Where was the same worry? The same concern?

I get it. COVID is a virus which is contagious and you get it from other people whereas heart disease is not. I am also not saying we shouldn't mask up/social distance/try to lower the amount of infected/deaths, but heart disease killed about 3 times more in 2017 alone than COVID has yet no national discussion about lowering the #1 killer in America (in 2017 anyways). 

Much like masks and lockdown, pushing for the reduction or banning of trans fats and high fructose syrup, and implementation of healthy school lunch and activities programs was regarded as government overreach and a liberal agenda being shoved down our throats. 

In pretty sure people lost their minds when seatbelts game standard in cars. 

[Mickeypoo]

(10-27-2020, 09:08 AM)Au165 Wrote: Here is the crazy thing about "survival rates", while the number seems good, when the infection rate is so high it's about as dumb of reasoning as one can use. Let's say I have a disease with a survival rate of 25% (meaning 75% will die), but is not easily transmitted and is controlled to only 10,000 cases. That would mean 7,500 people will have died from it. Now, I have a disease that is a super spreader that has infected 8 Million people but has a survival rate of 97% (meaning only 3% die). That would mean 240,000 people died.

Which disease was a bigger issue?

According to the graph, cases are the only thing trending upward.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

[*PhilHos*]

(10-27-2020, 09:12 AM)Au165 Wrote: Heart disease can't be spread from person to person, is this a real attempt at an equivalency? You literally use it, then dismiss it yourself for the obvious fallacy, then go back to using it.  You are "whatabout'ing" diseases and that is sad. While I feel bad for those that die from heart disease, that is something that accumulates from YEARS of lifestyle choices that often are a direct relation to one's own decisions. A communicable disease is not anything like heart disease.

So 650,000 dead is fine with you, but 250,000 isn't. Got it.

[Belsnickel]

(10-27-2020, 09:43 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: According to the graph, cases are the only thing trending upward.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

Which is still a problem. This is all because we are learning more about the disease, though. We're seeing high infection rates in my area, but fewer patients on respirators. This is all because doctors and scientists have been learning about the disease and how to treat it.

All of this being said, we shouldn't just look at survival rates. There is potential for long term effects on those that do survive it. We are still learning about this virus and the disease it causes.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-27-2020, 09:04 AM)PhilHos Wrote: According to the CDC, in 2017, the leading cause of death in the US was heart disease. It killed almost 650,000 Americans that year. Now, I know there are plenty of researchers looking to find cures and treatments and that there is some push to make behavioral changes to lower the risks but those are usually made at the individual level. Where was the same worry? The same concern?

I get it. COVID is a virus which is contagious and you get it from other people whereas heart disease is not. I am also not saying we shouldn't mask up/social distance/try to lower the amount of infected/deaths, but heart disease killed about 3 times more in 2017 alone than COVID has yet no national discussion about lowering the #1 killer in America (in 2017 anyways). 

So you haven’t heard anything about diet, exercise, smoking cessation, limiting alcohol intake, or management of diabetes and hypertension?

Can you light up a cigarette anywhere you like?

[Mickeypoo]

(10-27-2020, 09:48 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Which is still a problem. This is all because we are learning more about the disease, though. We're seeing high infection rates in my area, but fewer patients on respirators. This is all because doctors and scientists have been learning about the disease and how to treat it.

All of this being said, we shouldn't just look at survival rates. There is potential for long term effects on those that do survive it. We are still learning about this virus and the disease it causes.

I agree with everything you just said.

I simply disagree with lock downs and not allowing people to live normally.

Mask up, social distance if you can and live life imo.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-27-2020, 09:52 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So you haven’t heard anything about diet, exercise, smoking cessation, limiting alcohol intake, or management of diabetes and hypertension?

Not to the degree I've heard about wearing masks and social distancing. Not to mention the public shaming of those who AREN'T wearing a mask/social distancing. Heaven forbid if even a DOCTOR tells someone they should go on a diet.

(10-27-2020, 09:52 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Can you light up a cigarette anywhere you like?

Nope, but that infringes upon MY rights. We wouldn' t want that, now would we?

In all seriousness, I'm a non-smoker, but I don't believe the government should be able to tell a business whether they can or can't allow smoking. 

[GMDino]

(10-27-2020, 09:44 AM)PhilHos Wrote: So 650,000 dead is fine with you, but 250,000 isn't. Got it.

Did he say he was "Fine" with 650,00 dead from heart disease?  Or did he say that it is not comparable to a contagious disease?

People die of a lot of things.  Some things we can try and mitigate how many people get the thing that could kill them (or leave lifelong affects).

Heart disease and cancer are not the same as the flu or Ebola or coronavirus or car accidents or falls at home.

[GMDino]

(10-27-2020, 09:56 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Not to the degree I've heard about wearing masks and social distancing. Not to mention the public shaming of those who AREN'T wearing a mask/social distancing. Heaven forbid if even a DOCTOR tells someone they should go on a diet.


Nope, but that infringes upon MY rights. We wouldn' t want that, now would we?

In all seriousness, I'm a non-smoker, but I don't believe the government should be able to tell a business whether they can or can't allow smoking. 

What about asbestos or lead in paint or or mine waste water run off?

Should the government be able to tell a business how they can prevent harming citizens?

[Au165]

(10-27-2020, 09:44 AM)PhilHos Wrote: So 650,000 dead is fine with you, but 250,000 isn't. Got it.

No, I said while I feel for them they are making decisions that lead to their own demise. On the other hand, you are literally saying 250k dead isn't a big deal because it's not 650k. I am telling you that one is a lifetime of bad decisions leading to death and one is a communicable disease where other people's decisions impact you potentially being dead. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(10-27-2020, 09:43 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: According to the graph, cases are the only thing trending upward.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

Hospitalizations and deaths lag behind new cases by about 4-8 weeks. If cases are going up so will hospitalizations and deaths 4-8 weeks later.

How many total deaths were there as of yesterday? And last month? And the month before? So total cases are not the only statistic trending up.