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(06-20-2017, 03:40 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well the first thing I am going to do as a defense attorney is cite all the investigations stopped through pardons and point out that there was never once an attempt at prosecution for the President halting an investigation through the powers granted to him.
But there has been. As I said, the case was filed at SCOTUS for Nixon to attempt to prosecute Nixon, but was withdrawn because of his resignation.
(06-20-2017, 03:40 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Of course first you have to prove he even attempted to halt the investigation. Do the testimonies of Coats and Rogers count? We don't have him ever saying that, but we do have him saying if any of his people broke the law, it's good to know. Hmmm...I wonder if that's obstruction too. I wonder if Comey felt pressured to investigate his aids after he said that.
We have Trump saying he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation. Is it enough? I don't know, this is why there is an investigation.
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(06-20-2017, 03:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote:
But there has been. As I said, the case was filed at SCOTUS for Nixon to attempt to prosecute Nixon, but was withdrawn because of his resignation.
We have Trump saying he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation. Is it enough? I don't know, this is why there is an investigation.
Well then you have to take his whole quote into account. He did it because the Russian investigation is phony. If he believed that (and he would know) then that's not corrupt. And that's arguing along your beliefs that it's possible for a series of legal acts by the President to be deemed illegal.
Yes Nixon for illegal acts not legal ones.
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(06-20-2017, 04:12 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Yes for illegal acts not legal ones.
The determination over whether the act was legal or illegal will be answered through investigation and potential trial.
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(06-20-2017, 04:12 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well then you have to take his whole quote into account. He did it because the Russian investigation is phony. If he believed that (and he would know) then that's not corrupt. And that's arguing along your beliefs that it's possible for a series of legal acts by the President to be deemed illegal.
Yes Nixon for illegal acts not legal ones.
...and if he's not lying. Again.
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(06-20-2017, 04:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: ...and if he's not lying. Again.
Well if he lies to investigators or under oath, then that's a whole different ballgame.
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(06-20-2017, 12:54 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It can if they are used with corrupt intent.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/storage.citizensforethics.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/19152313/DOJ-Obstruction-of-Justice-5-12-171.pdf
This letter requests an investigation into obstruction. It is written by Noah Bookbinder, a man with a hefty legal resume, and the organization also has at least two former White House lawyers (one from each party) in its leadership. If they are saying that Trump could potentially be guilty of obstruction by using the power constitutionally granted to him if it was done with corrupt intent, I will take their word for it over yours.
All tea, no shade. 
One of the great things about the Trump presidency is that it has become a course in US government, and not only for laypersons. People learn more and more about how government works week by week, especially about the powers of the executive.
I think that as some of Trump's cabinet appointees nestle into their jobs in the coming months, we will be learning all kinds of things we assumed about government and cabinet officials aren't true. 2020 will see a more informed and cautious citizenry taking more care during primaries.
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(06-20-2017, 04:39 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Well if he lies to investigators or under oath, then that's a whole different ballgame.
Who will believe he lied?
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(06-20-2017, 05:26 PM)GMDino Wrote: Who will believe he lied?
You?
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(06-20-2017, 10:49 AM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/16/politics/gingrich-defends-trump-again/index.html
Every time I see that POS I feel bad for newts. They are such cute little buggers and that hypocritical bloviating evil penis gives them a bad name.
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(06-20-2017, 04:25 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The determination over whether the act was legal or illegal will be answered through investigation and potential trial.
Nixon committed illegal acts such as tampering with evidence. With Trump you are talking about deciding legal acts constitute a crime.
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(06-21-2017, 08:02 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Nixon committed illegal acts such as tampering with evidence. With Trump you are talking about deciding legal acts constitute a crime.
Otherwise legal acts can be illegal depending on intent. This isn't only applicable to this situation, it applies to many others.
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