Does Burrow need to hit another level?

[The D.O.Z.]

Burrow is already on a next level. What we need is for others around him not named Chase to up THEIR level. Players AND coaches.

What really pissed me off about the Texans game was seeing that offense disappear after that first drive. I get it, the opposition is supposed to adjust and the Texans did just that. If the dink and dunk short game wasn't working by drive THREE, why keep calling those plays? Why wait until it was damn near too late before opening up the playbook more?!
I liken Zac's play calling sometimes to a child pulling on a door that won't open because it's supposed to be pushed. "Keep at it kiddo! You'll figure it out one day!"

This offense is handcuffed by Pollack's inability to scheme up a run game and Zac's refusal to lean on it when it DOES work. Those two need to hit another level.

[Soonerpeace]

(11-14-2023, 11:15 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: You can cherry pick stats all day long.  The reality is that the Chiefs have the 8th ranked offense this year and the Bengals are 24th.  The Chiefs are also the #1 seed in the AFC.  Houston just passed us for the 7th and last spot.  

Years gone by don't really matter.  You are what your record says you are.

Well I was directly referring to your comment about Andy Reid. His record is his record (thanks for bringing that up) and it’s 1-3 against Zac. There are a lot of things to critique about the Bengal offense. But in the last 3 games they are #5 in points per play. And averaging 26.5 points per game vs. KC @ 20 points a game the last 4 games. There’s definitely some areas of disappointment. The run game is atrocious but it has been way too long. A better run game helps the OC & Joe. Again not having a solid backup QB that could have played while resting Joe and a better TE falls on Zac & Duke.

[Rubekahn29]

(11-14-2023, 01:39 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yes.

Joe Burrow of the @Bengals is the second QB in NFL history to complete at least 75.0% of his passes (min. 150 attempts) while throwing for 10+ TDs over a 4-game span.

The other was Peyton Manning during his 2013 MVP season. pic.twitter.com/9MDMXdUAUA

— OptaSTATS (@OptaSTATS) November 6, 2023

This was incredibly inflated by an 87% completion game which was one of his good games. I’m sorry- Seattle was not a good game. Arizona was okay and Buffalo was fine. 3 of those four games were far from elite.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-13-2023, 10:02 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Let me start by saying this- I love Burrow and he is a top QB in this league. Probably already the best QB the Bengals have had. That’s being said, he is the highest paid QB in the NFL. I think he needs to take his game to another level. You started to see glimpses of it yesterday with their backs agains the wall, but it needs to happen all game long. As we saw yesterday we struggle to compete in shootouts. I feel like the last shootout we won was against the Chiefs in 2021 where Chase went off for 200 yards.

Now, I’m sure the offensive scheme likely contributes to some of the limitations, but I want to see our 250 mil QB play like a 250 mil QB. Our defense is not good enough consistently to just go long stretches and stall as an offense.

I will say this, the bad interceptions need to stop. We will need Burrow to play a great game on Thursday night if we want to win.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-14-2023, 02:36 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: This was incredibly inflated by an 87% completion game which was one of his good games. I’m sorry- Seattle was not a good game. Arizona was okay and Buffalo was fine. 3 of those four games were far from elite.

He did something over a 4 game stretch that no other QB has done in 10 years since Peyton Manning’s last MVP season. If it was as easy as having one phenomenal game with a high cmp% someone else would have done it since then. If you don’t think that constitutes playing at an elite level then I don’t know what to tell you.

Arizona- 317 yards, 3 TD, 78.3 cmp %,108.1 passer rating
Buffalo- 348 yards, 2 TD, 70.5 cmp%, 108.9 passer rating

Those 2 games were way better than “okay” and “fine” to me.

[Frank Booth]

(11-14-2023, 02:36 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: This was incredibly inflated by an 87% completion game which was one of his good games. I’m sorry- Seattle was not a good game. Arizona was okay and Buffalo was fine. 3 of those four games were far from elite.

He literally has been an elite qb since week 4 no matter how you slice it

[casear2727]

(11-14-2023, 04:14 AM)125250 Wrote: No, the playcaller should see what everyone else does, which is a terrible offensive line that collapses easily. The chances of that play working well were not good. 

It was the PERFECT call.  How many more terrible takes are you going to have before I just write you off as not knowing ball?

[Frank Booth]

(11-14-2023, 03:00 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: He literally has been an elite qb since week 4 no matter how you slice it

sorry, since week 5. Week 4 was tennessee. So since week 5 He is...

1st in completion%

3rd in touchdown passes

4th in yards

looks like Burrow is top 5 to me (healthy)

[Ell Prez]

(11-14-2023, 01:12 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Since week 4 he’s had 2 good games. 1 okay game, and 2 not great games. That’s not elite. Not even close.

Thank you. Say it again for Frank Booth.

[Frank Booth]

(11-14-2023, 03:59 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: Thank you. Say it again for Frank Booth.

see the post above yours

[Rubekahn29]

(11-14-2023, 03:25 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: sorry, since week 5. Week 4 was tennessee. So since week 5 He is...

1st in completion%

3rd in touchdown passes

4th in yards

looks like Burrow is top 5 to me (healthy)

Wait I thought you said he was unquestioned top 2 when healthy? So now top 5?

[Rubekahn29]

(11-14-2023, 02:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He did something over a 4 game stretch that no other QB has done in 10 years since Peyton Manning’s last MVP season. If it was as easy as having one phenomenal game with a high cmp% someone else would have done it since then. If you don’t think that constitutes playing at an elite level then I don’t know what to tell you.

Arizona- 317 yards, 3 TD, 78.3 cmp %,108.1 passer rating
Buffalo- 348 yards, 2 TD, 70.5 cmp%, 108.9 passer rating

Those 2 games were way better than “okay” and “fine” to me.

I know context does not matter to you. But here.

In ARZ- Take away the 1 Chase bomb he avg 5.6 YPA that game which would place him 33rd if that were a season avg. Even 6.9 is below avg. Plus an interception. Not quite sure that’s elite numbers. Also against a very unimpressive team.

Against Buffalo- yeah he was fine that game.

I know y’all are apparently hurt I asked if Burrow can be better, and all of you guys think he’s untouchable, but when you only have won games where your defense has held the opposing teams under 20, color me not be struck as awe inspired.

[Soonerpeace]

(11-14-2023, 02:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He did something over a 4 game stretch that no other QB has done in 10 years since Peyton Manning’s last MVP season. If it was as easy as having one phenomenal game with a high cmp% someone else would have done it since then. If you don’t think that constitutes playing at an elite level then I don’t know what to tell you.

Arizona- 317 yards, 3 TD, 78.3 cmp %,108.1 passer rating
Buffalo- 348 yards, 2 TD, 70.5 cmp%, 108.9 passer rating

Those 2 games were way better than “okay” and “fine” to me.

(11-14-2023, 04:45 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I know context does not matter to you. But here.

In ARZ- Take away the 1 Chase bomb he avg 5.6 YPA that game which would place him 33rd if that were a season avg. Even 6.9 is below avg. Plus an interception. Not quite sure that’s elite numbers. Also against a very unimpressive team.

Against Buffalo- yeah he was fine that game.

I know y’all are apparently hurt I asked if Burrow can be better, and all of you guys think he’s untouchable, but when you only have won games where your defense has held the opposing teams under 20, color me not be struck as awe inspiring.

Burrow is considered one of the top 3 QB’s almost unanimously by the NFL former players media. He’s at that level despite an awful run game for years and mostly worse than average pass blocking line. Whereas other top QB’s have had better lines. If you feel like he’s not top 5 your opinion is yours. Nothing wrong with that but you are on an island pretty much.

[Rubekahn29]

(11-14-2023, 04:53 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Burrow is considered one of the top 3 QB’s almost unanimously by the NFL former players media. He’s at that level despite an awful run game for years and mostly worse than average pass blocking line. Whereas other top QB’s have had better lines. If you feel like he’s not top 5 your opinion is yours. Nothing wrong with that but you are on an island pretty much.

I never said where I thought he was, I do think he is a top QB. But when you are 3-16 in your career when the opposing teams scores more than 24 points, I think there needs to be a discussion about winning WITH a QB instead of BECAUSE a QB.

For comparisons sake- CJ stroud just won 2 games where he defense gave up more than 24 points back to back.

Mahomes won 5 such games just last year.

Eagles have won 3 such games this year.

I’m sure I could find more, but you get my point.

[Frank Booth]

(11-14-2023, 05:24 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I never said where I thought he was, I do think he is a top QB. But when you are 3-16 in your career when the opposing teams scores more than 24 points, I think there needs to be a discussion about winning WITH a QB instead of BECAUSE a QB.

For comparisons sake- CJ stroud just won 2 games where he defense gave up more than 24 points back to back.

Stroud's 2 game stretch means he's better than Burrow


you're right, I never thought about it that way

[Rubekahn29]

(11-14-2023, 05:28 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Stroud's 2 game stretch means he's better than Burrow


you're right, I never thought about it that way

Aw yes- that’s what I said. Good one.

[*PhilHos*]

(11-14-2023, 04:45 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I know context does not matter to you. But here.

In ARZ- Take away the 1 Chase bomb he avg 5.6 YPA that game which would place him 33rd if that were a season avg. Even 6.9 is below avg. Plus an interception. Not quite sure that’s elite numbers. Also against a very unimpressive team.

Against Buffalo- yeah he was fine that game.

I know y’all are apparently hurt I asked if Burrow can be better, and  all of you guys think he’s untouchable, but when you only have won games where your defense has held the opposing teams under 20, color me not be struck as awe inspired.

If you have to take away a play to make your point, your point sucks.

[Rubekahn29]

(11-14-2023, 05:30 PM)PhilHos Wrote: If you have to take away a play to make your point, your point sucks.

Nah, you just don’t like it. Even with the play his YPA was below avg or did you just skip over that?

If a RB ran for 110 yards on 25 Carries yet 1 over those Carrie’s was a 80 yard run with no contact, are you just going to ignore context and say he had a great game, even though he had 30 yards on the other 24 Carries?

[Ell Prez]

(11-14-2023, 05:28 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Stroud's 2 game stretch means he's better than Burrow


you're right, I never thought about it that way

I don’t think anyone is making the argument that Burrow isn’t really freaking good. He’s amazing. However, this year, when considering what we’re paying him, he needs to be better. You shouldn’t be paid as the best QB in the league and then play like the 5th or 6th. You should play like top 1-2. Maybe 3. Either way, he’s not good enough right now. We should have beat the Texans. Burrow threw 2 interceptions. That wasn’t elite. And this year he hasn’t been good enough. I wouldn’t trade him for any other QB in the league (except Mahomes. That guy is just too damn good). But my man’s gonna play a little better. Isn’t that fair to say?

[*PhilHos*]

(11-14-2023, 05:32 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Nah, you just don’t like it.

Oh, is that what it is? Take away Stroud's last 2 games and he's an average QB at best. 

(11-14-2023, 05:32 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: If a RB ran for 110 yards on 31 Carries yet 1 over those Carrie’s was a 80 yard run with no contact, are you just going to ignore context and say he had a great game, even though he had 30 yards on the other 30 Carries?

So, you're saying that an 80 yard run is a bad play. Got it. What, that's NOT what you're saying? Well, excuse me, when you claim that someone did NOT have a great game even though they had an 80 yard run, I can't help but think that's what you're saying.

Yes, context matters and sure, I'd probably agree with you that a RB that had 110 yards but most came on 1 play didn't have a "great" game. But, that's not what occurred with Burrow, is it? Take away the bomb to Chase and Burrow's stats are: 35 of 45, 77.8% comp 254 yards 2 TDs and 1 INT. Oh yeah, that surely the equivalent to a RB getting 1 ypc on 30 carries.