--- Election in Austria

[Mike M (the other one)]

What is this:
Karl
Species: Pony
Empress
Species: Pony
Crown Prince
Species: Unicorn Pony???

What exactly are you guys doing over there?

[hollodero]

(12-02-2016, 01:57 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: What is this:
Karl
Species: Pony
Empress
Species: Pony
Crown Prince
Species: Unicorn Pony???

What exactly are you guys doing over there?

We make Austria great again!

- But what does "pony" mean?

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-02-2016, 02:07 PM)hollodero Wrote: We make Austria great again!

- But what does "pony" mean?

That's what I'm asking you?

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=auzkhia/detail=factbook/id=68943

[hollodero]

(12-02-2016, 02:19 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: That's what I'm asking you?

https://www.nationstates.net/nation=auzkhia/detail=factbook/id=68943

It means Auzkhians are precious snowflakes that are very offended by Trumps victory.
And that they try to steal our flag and identity. Just to fight the Dominion of superfluid Helium, I suppose.

I can assure you no Austrian feels like a pony. We feel like horses. Strong, bigtailed and ready to ride all night long.

[hollodero]

--- I make use of this derailed thread to talk about tomorrow's election; maybe you heard about it earlier, we are about to elect a far-right creep (he really is) as our next president.
He already narrowly lost some months earlier, but the election got cancelled.

His counterpart is an old green party veteran with dubious rhetoric skills, considered quite left. So either there's a swing to the far right - or a swing to the far left, anyway there's a swing.

Please call all of your Austrian friends and tell them to vote for the left-wing grandpa come Sunday. Thanks in advance.

[Dill]

(12-03-2016, 11:27 AM)hollodero Wrote: --- I make use of this derailed thread to talk about tomorrow's election; maybe you heard about it earlier, we are about to elect a far-right creep (he really is) as our next president.
He already narrowly lost some months earlier, but the election got cancelled.

His counterpart is an old green party veteran with dubious rhetoric skills, considered quite left. So either there's a swing to the far right - or a swing to the far left, anyway there's a swing.

Please call all of your Austrian friends and tell them to vote for the left-wing grandpa come Sunday. Thanks in advance.

My Austrian friends already know whom to vote for.

I was going to continue our discussion of a possible Trump-Hapsburg union by apprising you of the treaty and trade advantages of becoming the 51st U.S. State, but this Austrian election looks interesting. Daham statt Islam!!

Where might one find a good overview of the stakes?  

[hollodero]

(12-03-2016, 10:20 PM)Dill Wrote: My Austrian friends already know whom to vote for.

I was going to continue our discussion of a possible Trump-Hapsburg union by apprising you of the treaty and trade advantages of becoming the 51st U.S. State, but this Austrian election looks interesting. Daham statt Islam!!

how do you know about that slogan? I never expected to read it here, never ever... I'm stunned. For all who are interested and don't know, that means something like "at home instead of Islam", it doesn't even make any sense, but well.
We can debate about the 51st state thing, but not right now, too much real stuff at stake right now. Hope I make it to the election in time, for I'm as drunk as seldomly before and just won over 50 Euros at poker, also as seldomly before... :)

(12-03-2016, 10:20 PM)Dill Wrote: Where might one find a good overview of the stakes?  

Can't say. Odds are pretty even, although I heard there's now a slight adavantage for Hofer at the bookies. Hofer's the right-wing arsehole (forgive my French). But it's really everyone's guess now.
If Hofer wins, I will be so ashamed.... not sure if I even want to show my face here afterwards. It's embarassing.

[Dill]

(12-04-2016, 01:46 AM)hollodero Wrote: how do you know about that slogan? I never expected to read it here, never ever... I'm stunned. For all who are interested and don't know, that means something like "at home instead of Islam", it doesn't even make any sense, but well.
We can debate about the 51st state thing, but not right now, too much real stuff at stake right now. Hope I make it to the election in time,  for I'm as drunk as seldomly before and just won over 50 Euros at poker, also as seldomly before... :)

Europe has been out of my scope for so many years. When you mentioned that divided election, though, I got very interested in Austria and went to the Die Presse website, hoping to get some back ground. I read a couple articles, mostly about chances lost (Irmgaard Griss) and tsk-tsking about folks getting all worked up over "Spaltpilze". Some sensible stuff, but I wanted to find out more about the candidates and voters "Meinungen", so I started following links about the FPO and OVP, and following readers' comments. I saw that Daham statt Islam on a Poster somewhere and it stuck (I thought Daham a dialectical rendering of "die Heimat"--so our Austrian Christian volkish culture over Islam).  I think I saw "Wir saubern Graz!" too--an Austrian version of drain the swamp, with maybe some ethnic cleansing overtones.  

Now I am thinking maybe a Trump-Hapsburg union might not be the best thing for the world.   

[hollodero]

(12-04-2016, 03:53 PM)Dill Wrote: Europe has been out of my scope for so many years. When you mentioned that divided election, though, I got very interested in Austria and went to the Die Presse website, hoping to get some back ground. I read a couple articles, mostly about chances lost (Irmgaard Griss) and tsk-tsking about folks getting all worked up over "Spaltpilze". Some sensible stuff, but I wanted to find out more about the candidates and voters "Meinungen", so I started following links about the FPO and OVP, and following readers' comments. I saw that Daham statt Islam on a Poster somewhere and it stuck (I thought Daham a dialectical rendering of "die Heimat"--so our Austrian Christian volkish culture over Islam).  I think I saw "Wir saubern Graz!" too--an Austrian version of drain the swamp, with maybe some ethnic cleansing overtones.  

Now I am thinking maybe a Trump-Hapsburg union might not be the best thing for the world.   

Oh well allright. I could respond with a million words to all that... I decided to take an approach that - at least finally - might be of interest. that aspect would be immigration. It's probably the biggest topic around here, and the most dividing one.

Let me first give you my take. I want to help every poor soul that needs to flee death and destruction - and would probably even like to help those that "just" flee economic disaster. 
On the other hand. I know that if we let everyone in, our country's wealth will vanish. We're 8 million, we can't possibly take care of 8 million refugees without sharply declining so that people would start to flee from here. It's just how it is. Waaay earlier the right wing will take over government for people simply wouldn't be on board as soon as their or the country's wealth vanishes. AND I do want to help, I do not want to help when I have to give up too much of my own standard. I want every Music CD back that I lend someone, I can't possibly be fine with sharing half my stuff with others, humans don't roll that way and I certainly don't.
Additionally. As soon as crime indeed goes up because of refugees (it doesn't), as soon as religiously motivated violence or disrepect goes up, I'm all for restrictions. Poor souls, being understanding, all that be fine, but there's a price I'm not willing to pay for helping.

Reasonable? Sensible? I think so. Thing is, when I say that here, a vast majority of the leftist spectrum already condemns me, calls me an egomaniac, an arsehole, a covered right-winger, a fascist. No discussion possible, I'm out, not to b3e respected any longer. THAT is also one part of the divide that gets neglected here. The left wing might be on the "right" side, but they are self-righteous, hateful, distort arguments and facts the same way the right wing does, albeit out of more noble motives (I believe so).

So more and more people are actually driven to the "other" side because they are rightfully disgusted to be called Nazi and whatnot because they are in favour of capping immigration. That's the divide we live in - it's the loss of people who support some kind of middle ground here. You're with us or you're the enemy.

Now the right wing is worse (my way personal stance) and has disgusting extremes that get more and more popular, "no one"... is more disgusted than I am, I described that someplace else once. The biggest task in this situation would be to fight the divide, to talk to "the other side", to find middle ground.... but that is almost impossible, for both sides despise the middle ground, and people do not talk to each other, they just despise each other, and it's getting worse in time.

Does that have something to do with the US? I believe so. I think you might be at the beginning of a development we're already deep in, and I think you really need to address that. Don't become Austria, it's a message I would address to both sides, D or R, Trumpist or Hillarist, left or right. Once the divide is too deep, it seems to get impossible to ever build a bridge and unite as a nation.

Well, that's the response I chose to give here.

Now what you mentioned, ethnic cleansing overtones...? No kidding. That's how it developed, and the sad thing is that no one is actually too indignant anymore, we just got so used to hate speech, it's hardly news anymore.
And "daham" just means "at home" in Austrian slang.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-06-2016, 12:53 PM)hollodero Wrote: Oh well allright. I could respond with a million words to all that... I decided to take an approach that - at least finally - might be of interest. that aspect would be immigration. It's probably the biggest topic around here, and the most dividing one.

Let me first give you my take. I want to help every poor soul that needs to flee death and destruction - and would probably even like to help those that "just" flee economic disaster. 
On the other hand. I know that if we let everyone in, our country's wealth will vanish. We're 8 million, we can't possibly take care of 8 million refugees without sharply declining so that people would start to flee from here. It's just how it is. Waaay earlier the right wing will take over government for people simply wouldn't be on board as soon as their or the country's wealth vanishes. AND I do want to help, I do not want to help when I have to give up too much of my own standard. I want every Music CD back that I lend someone, I can't possibly be fine with sharing half my stuff with others, humans don't roll that way and I certainly don't.
Additionally. As soon as crime indeed goes up because of refugees (it doesn't), as soon as religiously motivated violence or disrepect goes up, I'm all for restrictions. Poor souls, being understanding, all that be fine, but there's a price I'm not willing to pay for helping.

Reasonable? Sensible? I think so. Thing is, when I say that here, a vast majority of the leftist spectrum already condemns me, calls me an egomaniac, an arsehole, a covered right-winger, a fascist. No discussion possible, I'm out, not to b3e respected any longer. THAT is also one part of the divide that gets neglected here. The left wing might be on the "right" side, but they are self-righteous, hateful, distort arguments and facts the same way the right wing does, albeit out of more noble motives (I believe so).

So more and more people are actually driven to the "other" side because they are rightfully disgusted to be called Nazi and whatnot because they are in favour of capping immigration. That's the divide we live in - it's the loss of people who support some kind of middle ground here. You're with us or you're the enemy.

Now the right wing is worse (my way personal stance) and has disgusting extremes that get more and more popular, "no one"... is more disgusted than I am, I described that someplace else once. The biggest task in this situation would be to fight the divide, to talk to "the other side", to find middle ground.... but that is almost impossible, for both sides despise the middle ground, and people do not talk to each other, they just despise each other, and it's getting worse in time.

Does that have something to do with the US? I believe so. I think you might be at the beginning of a development we're already deep in, and I think you really need to address that. Don't become Austria, it's a message I would address to both sides, D or R, Trumpist or Hillarist, left or right. Once the divide is too deep, it seems to get impossible to ever build a bridge and unite as a nation.

Well, that's the response I chose to give here.

Now what you mentioned, ethnic cleansing overtones...? No kidding. That's how it developed, and the sad thing is that no one is actually too indignant anymore, we just got so used to hate speech, it's hardly news anymore.
And "daham" just means "at home" in Austrian slang.

You forgot to mention your countries debt. I don't know how you were able to afford a wall along your Slovenia Border?
How's that wall working out for you? Is it helping to control the amount of immigrants that want into your country?

Wait wait, what? you want a limit on the number of immigrants that come to your country? But yet, you felt it necessary to criticize the US for doing the same and wanting to build a wall with money we don't have yet?

And  your left is just like our Left and Right is just like our left and right. The Leftist elitists turned the working class against them by ignoring them or calling us names because we want the economy fixed and jobs to be available to the middle class again. Nothing wrong with that, just being sensible right? Controlling our Immigration, again Just being sensible right?

[hollodero]

(12-06-2016, 02:23 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You forgot to mention your countries debt. I don't know how you were able to afford a wall along your Slovenia Border?
How's that wall working out for you? Is it helping to control the amount of immigrants that want into your country?

Wait wait, what? you want a limit on the number of immigrants that come to your country? But yet, you felt it necessary to criticize the US for doing the same and wanting to build a wall with money we don't have yet?

you can't get quite over that, right?

Couple things.
First, our Slovenian border is very short, your Mexican border is a million times longer.

Second, we did NOT, and I repeat NOT build a wall on our borders, and there are no real plans to do so. There are occasional FENCES (and not across the whole border, just at certain "hot spots"). Like there are at the Mexican border too. But NO WALL, that's just not true.
And if there were plans to build one, I would be VERY opposed to that, too. Not sure you can prove any inconsistency on my part here.

Third, I mentioned it, we have a whole different situation at our borders than you do. I (and others) already elaborated on that in full detail. Feel free to see it differently. But we already had that.

And fourth, I do get and I do fully understand that you as well want to limit immigration at a certain point, that was never disputed in the first place, a point I also underlined quite vigorously.

Fifth, sure we have other issues besides immigration, debt is one of them. There are quite a lot of topics I didn't mention, but I said so in the beginning.

(12-06-2016, 02:23 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: And  your left is just like our Left and Right is just like our left and right. The Leftist elitists turned the working class against them by ignoring them or calling us names because we want the economy fixed and jobs to be available to the middle class again. Nothing wrong with that, just being sensible right? Controlling our Immigration, again Just being sensible right?

No, I widely agree with you here. I feel "left" too, but I am a hefty critic of many left wing rhetorics and many left wing politics. That much should have been obvious in my previous post. Not sure what's your point here.
Alas, again, I agree with you, the left does indeed somehow ignore the working class (well.... up to a point at least) and I am not supporting that. Your point IS sensible and valid. It plays its part in the rise of the right.

(Just, our left and right is very different from your left and right on various issues. Immigration might not be one of these issues though.)

[Dill]

(12-06-2016, 12:53 PM)hollodero Wrote: Oh well allright. I could respond with a million words to all that... I decided to take an approach that - at least finally - might be of interest. that aspect would be immigration. It's probably the biggest topic around here, and the most dividing one.

Let me first give you my take. I want to help every poor soul that needs to flee death and destruction - and would probably even like to help those that "just" flee economic disaster. 
On the other hand. I know that if we let everyone in, our country's wealth will vanish. We're 8 million, we can't possibly take care of 8 million refugees without sharply declining so that people would start to flee from here. It's just how it is. Waaay earlier the right wing will take over government for people simply wouldn't be on board as soon as their or the country's wealth vanishes. AND I do want to help, I do not want to help when I have to give up too much of my own standard. I want every Music CD back that I lend someone, I can't possibly be fine with sharing half my stuff with others, humans don't roll that way and I certainly don't.
Additionally. As soon as crime indeed goes up because of refugees (it doesn't), as soon as religiously motivated violence or disrepect goes up, I'm all for restrictions. Poor souls, being understanding, all that be fine, but there's a price I'm not willing to pay for helping.

Reasonable? Sensible? I think so. Thing is, when I say that here, a vast majority of the leftist spectrum already condemns me, calls me an egomaniac, an arsehole, a covered right-winger, a fascist. No discussion possible, I'm out, not to b3e respected any longer. THAT is also one part of the divide that gets neglected here. The left wing might be on the "right" side, but they are self-righteous, hateful, distort arguments and facts the same way the right wing does, albeit out of more noble motives (I believe so).

So more and more people are actually driven to the "other" side because they are rightfully disgusted to be called Nazi and whatnot because they are in favour of capping immigration. That's the divide we live in - it's the loss of people who support some kind of middle ground here. You're with us or you're the enemy.

Now the right wing is worse (my way personal stance) and has disgusting extremes that get more and more popular, "no one"... is more disgusted than I am, I described that someplace else once. The biggest task in this situation would be to fight the divide, to talk to "the other side", to find middle ground.... but that is almost impossible, for both sides despise the middle ground, and people do not talk to each other, they just despise each other, and it's getting worse in time.

Does that have something to do with the US? I believe so. I think you might be at the beginning of a development we're already deep in, and I think you really need to address that. Don't become Austria, it's a message I would address to both sides, D or R, Trumpist or Hillarist, left or right. Once the divide is too deep, it seems to get impossible to ever build a bridge and unite as a nation.

Well, that's the response I chose to give here.

Now what you mentioned, ethnic cleansing overtones...? No kidding. That's how it developed, and the sad thing is that no one is actually too indignant anymore, we just got so used to hate speech, it's hardly news anymore.
And "daham" just means "at home" in Austrian slang.

daham=zuhause?

Thanks for going into that depth. The social logic seems similar to other places, where implying racism or insufficient sympathy for the deprived angers people and drives them to show they can do what they want--namely the opposite of what you want.  People who figure out how to make them do that get elected in the US.

I'm interested now in seeing how Austrians negotiate their divisions after the good guy won.

Also, I see you guys went through hell, what with all the re-voting. I would not at all be surprised if your Asylanten were illegally voting!

[hollodero]

(12-07-2016, 01:28 AM)Dill Wrote: daham=zuhause?

yes. Daham = daheim = zuhause (different words, same meaning)

(12-07-2016, 01:28 AM)Dill Wrote: Thanks for going into that depth.

Your welcome. Did it more for myself than for you anyway :)

(12-07-2016, 01:28 AM)Dill Wrote: The social logic seems similar to other places, where implying racism or insufficient sympathy for the deprived angers people and drives them to show they can do what they want--namely the opposite of what you want.  People who figure out how to make them do that get elected in the US.

It's not so hard to get, right? Yet our self-righteous lefts (not even so much the politicians, but the people) don't seem able to grasp it. They rather shoot every messenger. And the worse the voting results get, the more self-righteous they get. Amazing stuff.
And then they talk about leaving this "spupid Nazi country" they helped creating. As if. As if most people wouldn't vote for the right wing with as much stomach pain as I feel when voting stupid green party :) which is A LOT. Oh, well.

(12-07-2016, 01:28 AM)Dill Wrote: I'm interested now in seeing how Austrians negotiate their divisions after the good guy won.

Back to "die Presse" then :) Think I mentioned it once, our president is not very much like yours. (First off, he's not an ars... sorry... :) ) Our general elections will take place in 2 years tops, and new parliament then forms the new government (right now we keep being stuck with the old one, which will be beloved in three years). The president can not do much except - indeed - denying them and cause a constitutional crisis.
So he can do that, he can dissolve parliament, he can block laws or agreements like TTIP, he can deny ministers (that happened). Mostly he's on TV on New Year's Eve and tells us that there are "great challenges ahead but that he's optimistic, even though not without urging for getting things done and be cautious on the way." It's basically the same speech since '55, but no one seems to notice.

(12-07-2016, 01:28 AM)Dill Wrote: Also, I see you guys went through hell, what with all the re-voting. I would not at all be surprised if your Asylanten were illegally voting!

Oh yeah. First we had six candidates, then there was a runoff election, then this election got cancelled after Hofer protested (rightfully, but still it was a whole bunch of mere formalities), then the new election got moved from October to December because the glue on the polling cards wouldn't work. Jeez, I should not mention that, it's a bit shameful to say the least. Hope now we're done.
Concerning such voter fraud allegiations - thank God, we are still way more civil then the US has become. Although it might change (after all, Hofer called the other guy a former spy, an accusation quite unprecedented).

-- I honestly don't get your voting system in the first place. Don't you have some kind of citizen registration? We base our voting lists on that. Voting only possible if you're registered and registered as citizen and therefore "on the list". We do need photo ID, though. And I'm not "left" on that one, I believe it should indeed be required for voting, and if it's really that much of a huge cost problem for some then state should offer photo ID for citizens cost-free. Isn't that right. :)

[Dill]

(12-07-2016, 11:13 AM)hollodero Wrote: -- I honestly don't get your voting system in the first place. Don't you have some kind of citizen registration? We base our voting lists on that. Voting only possible if you're registered and registered as citizen and therefore "on the list". We do need photo ID, though. And I'm not "left" on that one, I believe it should indeed be required for voting, and if it's really that much of a huge cost problem for some then state should offer photo ID for citizens cost-free. Isn't that right. :)

Yes we have registration, and voter fraud is not a problem--though election fraud may be sometimes.

When my family votes, our names are there on a list and we sign the list to get our ballots.

Voter IDs sound great--until you realize how many elderly don't have them, and sometimes don't have birth certificates, though they have been voting in the same place for 70 years.  In some southern states as many as 200,000 voters fall into this category.

As far as cost goes, the state of Minnesota would have to pay some 11 million bucks to give everyone a "free" id, but they have never had any incidents of actual voter fraud since 2000.  So it's not clear why that would be cost effective.  Some want it though, because of rumors of THOUSANDS of illegal immigrants swarming our polls to vote Democrat. Ha ha, imagine some rural polling station in Austria at which a half-dozen very Arabic-looking types suddenly appear ready to vote bearing IDs for "Herr Bayrhammer" and "Frau Schmidt" etc. and can't read German.

We would not be talking about "voter fraud" and ids at all in the US, except that Republicans have figured out it could shave of a percentage of votes in certain (black) urban and rural districts. They also like to purge lists of "dead" voters just before elections too. Those "mistakenly" on such lists then don't have time to clear up the error.

[Dill]

(12-07-2016, 11:13 AM)hollodero Wrote: Back to "die Presse" then :) Think I mentioned it once, our president is not very much like yours. (First off, he's not an ars... sorry... :) ) Our general elections will take place in 2 years tops, and new parliament then forms the new government (right now we keep being stuck with the old one, which will be beloved in three years). The president can not do much except - indeed - denying them and cause a constitutional crisis.

Actually, I think your government is simpler now than under the Hapsburgs when you had dual parliaments with Hungary and all the translation problems.  You had a final arbiter, though. I guess that was simpler.

I see van der Bellen is trying to heal the rift, calling everyone to come out of the "trenches" and such, but the reader commentaries in Die Presse sound a lot like the American response to Trump, with people saying he's not my president and others telling them to get over it now.

Hofer and Strache are preparing for the next vote, which includes repackaging the party to look less extreme outside Austria. Hofer says he's got an invitation from Washington. Is he just talking I wonder? I see that many of you are embarrassed by these guys--like we are by our president elect. But at least Hofer is not Austria's face to the world--yet.

What is going on in the world that similar sorts of conflict seem to appear spontaneously in different places? US, UK, Austria--where else now are Trump-style insurgencies emerging?

[hollodero]

(12-07-2016, 09:07 PM)Dill Wrote: Yes we have registration, and voter fraud is not a problem--though election fraud may be sometimes.

When my family votes, our names are there on a list and we sign the list to get our ballots.

Voter IDs sound great--until you realize how many elderly don't have them, and sometimes don't have birth certificates, though they have been voting in the same place for 70 years.  In some southern states as many as 200,000 voters fall into this category.

As far as cost goes, the state of Minnesota would have to pay some 11 million bucks to give everyone a "free" id, but they have never had any incidents of actual voter fraud since 2000.  So it's not clear why that would be cost effective.

Honestly... Minnesota should spend those 11 million bucks (if it's really that expensive). And be it just to create more confidence in the process. Be it that just the "voter fraud" claims diminish.
Plus, I think there's nothing wrong with assuring fraud isn't possible (out of respect for the voting process) - and I think there's nothing wrong with providing citizens in need with a valid Photo ID (which might be quite useful in a lot of other circumstances than just voting).
Guess that would be my stance here. "Hand out" IDs for people who can't afford them (although I still can't quite wrap my head around that, apart from the occasional grandmother... who also should get her birth certificate or at least some photo ID. But obviously it's a thing. But how can they live without any ID? Banks? Police encounters? I don't... ok I just am not American).

(12-07-2016, 09:07 PM)Dill Wrote: Some want it though, because of rumors of THOUSANDS of illegal immigrants swarming our polls to vote Democrat. Ha ha, imagine some rural polling station in Austria at which a half-dozen very Arabic-looking types suddenly appear ready to vote bearing IDs for "Herr Bayrhammer" and "Frau Schmidt" etc. and can't read German.

We would not be talking about "voter fraud" and ids at all in the US, except that Republicans have figured out it could shave of a percentage of votes in certain (black) urban and rural districts. They also like to purge lists of "dead" voters just before elections too. Those "mistakenly" on such lists then don't have time to clear up the error.

I do of course know that the Trump claims are BS. Then again, a part of me just wonders how a system can be in place where fraud indeed is possible, albeit very seldom. No political colour here, just... "objectively", well, it seems a bit strange.
And that your parties use all kinds of dirty tricks is no surprise. When there's gerrymandering, there's other gruesome stuff too.
(And I do believe the Republicans are the more guilty party, although that's actually not my point).

(12-07-2016, 10:03 PM)Dill Wrote: Actually, I think your government is simpler now than under the Hapsburgs when you had dual parliaments with Hungary and all the translation problems.  You had a final arbiter, though. I guess that was simpler.

Oh yeah, I remember, that was awful. And didn't really work too well, honestly.
Stupid people speaking other languages...

(12-07-2016, 10:03 PM)Dill Wrote: I see van der Bellen is trying to heal the rift, calling everyone to come out of the "trenches" and such, but the reader commentaries in Die Presse sound a lot like the American response to Trump, with people saying he's not my president and others telling them to get over it now.

Actually... I was surprised about the comments at die Presse too... very Hofer-friendly folk there.
Die Presse is, I admit as much, a "quality newspaper", always leaning conservative (nothing wrong with that). I personally read "Standard", the second quality newspaper, that attracts a far more left audience. Hardly any Hofer friends there.
(Of course most folks are on neither of these sites. If you ever heard about "Kronen Zeitung" or "Heute" or "Österreich" - the boulevard - you know what I mean. If you don't: They are all awful and most people just read those.)

(12-07-2016, 10:03 PM)Dill Wrote: Hofer and Strache are preparing for the next vote, which includes repackaging the party to look less extreme outside Austria. Hofer says he's got an invitation from Washington. Is he just talking I wonder?

Oh no, there even was a delegation of the freeedom party, high ranking officials, at Trump tower at election night. They even "almost saw Trump"... :) Security reasons alone prevented that. :)
And it's not surprising. I can assure you without proof that they were VERY interested in the whole Trump campaign.
And Trump, as far as I know, did indeed meet our fine and awesome butterfly Strache. So further meetings are very much possible (if Trump is willing to meet them). They would do all kinds of stuff to talk to him, I'm certain. Good thing, they probably just need to publicly praise him.

(12-07-2016, 10:03 PM)Dill Wrote: I see that many of you are embarrassed by these guys--like we are by our president elect. But at least Hofer is not Austria's face to the world--yet.

What is going on in the world that similar sorts of conflict seem to appear spontaneously in different places? US, UK, Austria--where else now are Trump-style insurgencies emerging?

I devoted a whole thread to that topic. It's amazing, isn't it? Also France with Le Pen, Germany with AfD... well probably everywhere some miniature Trumps try their luck. Right-wing populists, alt-rights (I take that one because it's shorter), it's always the same pattern.
How comes? - Not sure either. I believe it's the Internet and the fact almost everyone got it now. In former times, it was way easier for politics to control the news, to control the media, therefore to control people's hearts and minds, at least here. Now everyone can find some sources that confirms what he always suspected... e.g. immigrants are felons and the own government puts their faith above those of their own citizens (it's crazy how many people believe every refugee gets a free IPhone from the state...) or whatever wacky or fearful or stupid thing they feel is true.
Right-wing (I don't want to reduce it to that, but still) is supposed to bring out the worst in people and feed on that. The hatred, the envy, the fear, the egoism. Whilst in former times messages were more optimistic (albeit because more influenced by government) and brought out more positive things in people. Work hard, be nice, be a good citizen, ask what you can do for your country and whatever. There were down sides, of course. But well. I don't know either, I'm clueless and babbling. Need to go to bed now. :)