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(03-04-2020, 08:35 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I believe I did and speaking of deflecting.
I asked did they pay for their own Personal Hotel usage?
They should not pay for anything the SS needs. Food/Shelter etc. They are a part of the First Family and the protection is automatically granted and they were in a foreign country to boot, so yes, they should have the Protection. We can't have the POTUS compromised cause his family is endangered, surely you have no beef with that.
You’re apparently incapable of addressing my points than 1) they don’t have to accept it, 2) they don’t have to pick overly expensive locations, and 3) they can cover the cost of these overly expensive locations.
The fact that they are entitled to something doesn’t answer the question of “should they abuse it?”
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(03-04-2020, 08:41 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I know why they were there, I just found it amusing when you complain about both sides.
Also Trump is a business person. He's like Mike Brown. He will always be involved in one way or another, no matter what. And I don't really care one way or another. You can't have him just stop running his business because he's POTUS. His businesses make him his money, POTUS is notoriety. Sure he can fix things or mess them up more, that's the way every POTUS works, and sometimes it's not even his doing, it's Congress squabbling over this or that.
Obama actually had a Dem House/Senate at one point. He could have done a lot more, but that wasn't his game. Most just want to complain about what they couldn't get accomplished, haven't you noticed that?
Well... Yeah, I do expect him to.
He's not serving on the Monkey's Eyebrow city council. He's the POTUS. That's his job. I expect him to not have a side gig .
As far as Obama and the majority, he did. Unfortunately, he wasted most of his time trying to get Republicans to take part in healthcare reform. They said sure... Then drug their feet until the Dems just rammed through something they thought would appease (and not get repealed) everybody, since it was an old republican plan.
Obama didn't do a lot, but he didn't screw up a lot of things either . He was basically Bush Lite.
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How can anyone care about the 100's of millions Trumps kids have made (and tax payers have paid for them) off of his Presidency in these 3 years when Hunter Biden was paid 1 million to sit on a board for 2 years.
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https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/486209-new-documents-show-trump-company-has-charged-secret-service-628000
New documents have come out after a 3 year fight with the Secret Service over FOIA requests.
The Secret Service has paid the Trump Organization $628,000 for lodging in that time. Eric has claimed that they stay for free or for "like $50" saying other places would charge $500.
The Secret Service was charged $17k a month for a 3 bedroom place at Trump's NJ golf resort, but a search found that comparable rent in the area was actually $3,400. They have been charged $650 a night at Mar a Lago.
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(03-04-2020, 08:45 PM)GMDino Wrote: No you didn't.
Figures.
LOL Yes I did, it was clear in what you pasted why they were there.
What I'm talking about is how much you complain about them staying at their own hotels when they didn't this time and yet you still found something to complain about.
The Strike through? Next time just put your fingers in your ears and yell "LALALALALALA" it's on the same level.
Did you bother to check out the Grand Hotel in Punta Del Este where they stayed? Sure, It's a 5 Star hotel (hint Luxury in the article), but I can book a room for about $110 per night right now for a week, so it's not much more than staying at a Holiday Inn here (probably a little cheaper). The next closest place they could stay at was a $23 Hostel and that's not happening cause I wouldn't stay there either. All other hotels were several blocks away from where they wanted to be. Again, making it easier on the SS to monitor for travel back and forth to the Estate to Hotel.
Also check this site:
https://www.citizensforethics.org/eric-trump-business-trip-urugay-80k/
It shows the invoice. All of that money that the SS spent, nothing to do with Eric's lodgings. And why wouldn't Eric not pay for his own? it's a Business Expense and Tax Write-Off for his company. You know, don't want to make too much profit else pay more taxes. Duh.
(03-05-2020, 12:57 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You’re apparently incapable of addressing my points than 1) they don’t have to accept it, 2) they don’t have to pick overly expensive locations, and 3) they can cover the cost of these overly expensive locations.
The fact that they are entitled to something doesn’t answer the question of “should they abuse it?”
Let's go slower here:
1: They don't have to accept it? No they don't but as immediate children of the current POTUS they are granted SS protection, and as I said, that's very vital when they travel over seas and for the welfare and safety of the First Family and not allow for things to happen to them that would compromise the POTUS.
2: Maybe they didn't pick, maybe the SS picked. You know shortest route back and forth to monitor than a longer one that might require even more people active? Who knows, but the cost of the Hotel was not exorbitant price like the article suggests.
3: You still haven't shown proof that they didn't pay for their personal lodgings. No worries, I took care of it.
(03-05-2020, 04:43 AM)Benton Wrote: Well... Yeah, I do expect him to.
He's not serving on the Monkey's Eyebrow city council. He's the POTUS. That's his job. I expect him to not have a side gig .
As far as Obama and the majority, he did. Unfortunately, he wasted most of his time trying to get Republicans to take part in healthcare reform. They said sure... Then drug their feet until the Dems just rammed through something they thought would appease (and not get repealed) everybody, since it was an old republican plan.
Obama didn't do a lot, but he didn't screw up a lot of things either . He was basically Bush Lite.
Understood, but Trump is not a career politician so his mindset is not the same. And you can not expect him to never get any updates about his businesses as well. He's just not officially handling them.
Now if you want to complain about that, then let's ask Arnold why he made movies while he was Governor of California? Shouldn't same rules apply to him and his "outside" businesses?
(03-05-2020, 12:08 PM)jj22 Wrote: How can anyone care about the 100's of millions Trumps kids have made (and tax payers have paid for them) off of his Presidency in these 3 years when Hunter Biden was paid 1 million to sit on a board for 2 years.
Do you have any proof of what you're talking about or just making stuff up to fit your agenda?
SS's spending has been more than Obama's on Trump's watch, but Trump also has a bigger family and Adult children that have been granted SS protection, so it's par for the course so to speak.
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(03-05-2020, 12:57 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: BmorePat87
(03-05-2020, 07:51 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/486209-new-documents-show-trump-company-has-charged-secret-service-628000
New documents have come out after a 3 year fight with the Secret Service over FOIA requests.
The Secret Service has paid the Trump Organization $628,000 for lodging in that time. Eric has claimed that they stay for free or for "like $50" saying other places would charge $500.
The Secret Service was charged $17k a month for a 3 bedroom place at Trump's NJ golf resort, but a search found that comparable rent in the area was actually $3,400. They have been charged $650 a night at Mar a Lago.
for how many SS Agents? and days charged?
Does that include their salary?
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(03-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: for how many SS Agents? and days charged?
Does that include their salary?
I'm not looking into the details, but it wouldn't include their salaries if these were funds paid to the Trump Organization.
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(03-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: for how many SS Agents? and days charged?
Does that include their salary?
As far as the salary, the link says in lodging fees.
So that would be lodging. Salary would be on top of that.
So well over a million by the time you includes salaries, transport costs, etc. Mostly to play golf or sell property.
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(03-05-2020, 09:15 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Let's go slower here:
1: They don't have to accept it? No they don't but as immediate children of the current POTUS they are granted SS protection, and as I said, that's very vital when they travel over seas and for the welfare and safety of the First Family and not allow for things to happen to them that would compromise the POTUS.
2: Maybe they didn't pick, maybe the SS picked. You know shortest route back and forth to monitor than a longer one that might require even more people active? Who knows, but the cost of the Hotel was not exorbitant price like the article suggests.
3: You still haven't shown proof that they didn't pay for their personal lodgings. No worries, I took care of it.
Even with you going "slower", you failed to address the point. It's shocking.
Also, what does Eric and Don Jr's personal lodging have to do with excessive SS lodging fees? Why do I have to show proof that they didn't pay their personal lodging fee if I never claimed that they didn't? That's a straw-man argument. Obsessing over something I never brought up further demonstrates that you're unwilling to address my point.
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I'll go with the old standby that they made Jimmy Carter sell his peanut farm and leave that some people trust Trump (  ) to not use his office to "enhance" his personal business and business deals while in office.
Just like when he made a big show of claiming he was leaving it all to Beavis and Butthead to run with all the blank pieces of paper in folders.
Honestly anyone who says they believe Trump or trust him should have their heads examined. That the definition of delusion.
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(03-05-2020, 09:19 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: for how many SS Agents? and days charged?
Does that include their salary?
It's only lodging and it's not complete. The Secret Service has failed to list many of these expenditures in the proper public database and have misled by listing things incorrectly, such as claiming payments made to Mar a Lago were made to the Trump National Golf Club outside DC.
https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-inc-2020-how-much-has-the-government-spent-at-trumps-properties-it-wont-say
When Trump first became president, the State Dept tried to work out a deal with the Trump organization for a flat fee for all government lodging at Mar a Lago during his first term. The Trump organization refused that offer and charged them the maximum cost that federal rules would allow for a room per night.
Mar a Lago has been invoicing expenses separately avoid federal rules.
Meanwhile the tax payers are paying for things like $1000 tabs for senior staff to get drunk in a room together at Mar a Lago.
https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-inc-podcast-taxpayers-covered-liquor-bill-for-trump-staffers-and-more-mar-a-lago
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This also isn't hard. You can support someone while also criticizing how they benefit from the government. Biden charged the Secret Service $2k a month to rent a cottage on his Delaware property. While it was market value, he should have just allowed them to stay there for free.
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(03-05-2020, 12:57 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You’re apparently incapable of addressing my points than 1) they don’t have to accept it, 2) they don’t have to pick overly expensive locations, and 3) they can cover the cost of these overly expensive locations.
The fact that they are entitled to something doesn’t answer the question of “should they abuse it?”
It's not really clear here who is abusing what. First the link I provided, clearly shows this is an INTERNAL SS foreign travel expense form. Which means it was filled out by the SS involved, not Eric. And these guys are not itemizing anything (is their hooker costs included in that?). So for 2 days stay at the Grand Hotel and put up a bill like that, I'm questioning what all is in that Lodging charge, cause I already looked up the costs at that Hotel and it's not that costly, also I'd like to know how many SS agents were there, flight costs etc. Just too much missing information for me to come to the conclusion that you have.
You got your little negative Trump click bait and ran with it.
(03-05-2020, 09:36 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm not looking into the details, but it wouldn't include their salaries if these were funds paid to the Trump Organization.
I agree it shouldn't, but since you are an accountant, I would expect that you would also be interested in the details. You should know how these things work more than most. The Per Diems for each and the number of agents involved etc.
One thing I will point out, there is no way that there is only 1 three bedroom place involved. If you believe that, then you're not being very bright. and just running with anything you can find that's even slightly negative because of your disdain for Trump. I can not find anywhere where it tells me how many SS agents are with the POTUS at any given time. I'm guessing at least 20 (most likely more) are involved. Maybe you can have better luck finding that number than me.
Let's do some math (let me know if you have a problem with it).
The link says $34k per month so x12=$408k for a year
$408k/365 (days in a year) =$1,117 per day
$1,1117/$50 (that's what Trump says he charges) = 22.3 agents per day.
22 agents and I was guessing at least 20. I don't know about you, but that seems right in line with what I was guessing, what do you think? that's also not including the food for them and extras for travel etc, just straight up lodging.
Of course they are not there ALL the time, but they need to keep those certain rooms reserved for when they are there. It would be a major security issue if they had to keep switching rooms constantly and couldn't get ones close tot he POTUS.
(03-06-2020, 12:43 AM)Benton Wrote: As far as the salary, the link says in lodging fees.
So that would be lodging. Salary would be on top of that.
So well over a million by the time you includes salaries, transport costs, etc. Mostly to play golf or sell property.
See what I posted above:
(03-06-2020, 09:40 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Even with you going "slower", you failed to address the point. It's shocking.
Also, what does Eric and Don Jr's personal lodging have to do with excessive SS lodging fees? Why do I have to show proof that they didn't pay their personal lodging fee if I never claimed that they didn't? That's a straw-man argument. Obsessing over something I never brought up further demonstrates that you're unwilling to address my point.
What's more shocking is that I clearly stated this was not filled out and submitted by Eric Trump, it was an internal SS expense report, and since they didn't stay at a Trump hotel, not one single penny is going into any of the Trumps pocket. So exactly how does your original question even matter? Who is abusing this the SS? or are they really lumping all expenses into one simple report instead of itemizing it like they should?
Round trip (business class) is about 4-5k per agent, but we don't know the number of agents involved or the travel arrangements etc. So if there was 6 agents, then the travel is 24-30k of that money...
(03-06-2020, 09:59 AM)GMDino Wrote: I'll go with the old standby that they made Jimmy Carter sell his peanut farm and leave that some people trust Trump ( ) to not use his office to "enhance" his personal business and business deals while in office.
Just like when he made a big show of claiming he was leaving it all to Beavis and Butthead to run with all the blank pieces of paper in folders.
Honestly anyone who says they believe Trump or trust him should have their heads examined. That the definition of delusion.
Oh and how did that work out? He put it in blind trust and signed it over to... His mom and Brother...
His brother got in trouble for accepting money from outsiders, when all was said and done, at the end of his Presidency, his farm was $1 mil in debt, and he had to write books to get back to even cause his family screwed him over (mainly his brother-Billy). So that didn't work out to well for him.
And I have never said I trust or believe everything Trump says, he's gonna play just as much as anyone else does.
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(03-06-2020, 10:00 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: It's only lodging and it's not complete. The Secret Service has failed to list many of these expenditures in the proper public database and have misled by listing things incorrectly, such as claiming payments made to Mar a Lago were made to the Trump National Golf Club outside DC.
https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-inc-2020-how-much-has-the-government-spent-at-trumps-properties-it-wont-say
When Trump first became president, the State Dept tried to work out a deal with the Trump organization for a flat fee for all government lodging at Mar a Lago during his first term. The Trump organization refused that offer and charged them the maximum cost that federal rules would allow for a room per night.
Mar a Lago has been invoicing expenses separately avoid federal rules.
Meanwhile the tax payers are paying for things like $1000 tabs for senior staff to get drunk in a room together at Mar a Lago.
https://www.propublica.org/article/trump-inc-podcast-taxpayers-covered-liquor-bill-for-trump-staffers-and-more-mar-a-lago
Oh I agree plenty of room for abuse, but can't pin it all on Trump if the SS is not filling out the paperwork correctly, maybe they are hiding those pesky hooker costs that they can't get receipts for.
(03-06-2020, 10:07 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: This also isn't hard. You can support someone while also criticizing how they benefit from the government. Biden charged the Secret Service $2k a month to rent a cottage on his Delaware property. While it was market value, he should have just allowed them to stay there for free.
No issues with this, and I do not like everything that Trump does, and will not defend those things that I don't like, but in this case, I just want to get the details so that we can figure out if the criticism is deserved or not. So far I don't see to much in what we are currently talking about in regards to Trump abusing it, I see it more as the SS not filling out the forms with details, and lumping too much into one expense. That's not on Trump, that's on the SS agents involved.
I am going to look into what JS posted and start rummaging around there.
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(03-06-2020, 02:37 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Oh and how did that work out? He put it in blind trust and signed it over to... His mom and Brother...
His brother got in trouble for accepting money from outsiders, when all was said and done, at the end of his Presidency, his farm was $1 mil in debt, and he had to write books to get back to even cause his family screwed him over (mainly his brother-Billy). So that didn't work out to well for him.
And I have never said I trust or believe everything Trump says, he's gonna play just as much as anyone else does.
Carter played by the rules. Trump won't. You support that.
'nuff said
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(03-06-2020, 02:56 PM)GMDino Wrote: Carter played by the rules. Trump won't. You support that.
'nuff said
Has he been caught doing dealings personally that involve his company and using his influence as POTUS for economic gain?
I see his son running the company with the day to day operations, and possibly with Trump aware of what's going on. No real issues with that.
It's easy for you to say, he should have it in a Blind Trust. It's not your money. if it was mine, I certainly would not put my livelihood in the hands of a stranger. And technically, in order to do exactly as he is supposed to, all of his assets must be sold (except personal living property) that's not exactly fair to ask of him since some are contracts that require approval from partners before he is allowed to sell it.
Maybe we should ask the former POTUS why he was the first to not use a Blind Trust to monitor his assets while in office? I don't recall many raising a stink about Obama not using one.
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(03-06-2020, 02:37 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: It's not really clear here who is abusing what. First the link I provided, clearly shows this is an INTERNAL SS foreign travel expense form. Which means it was filled out by the SS involved, not Eric. And these guys are not itemizing anything (is their hooker costs included in that?). So for 2 days stay at the Grand Hotel and put up a bill like that, I'm questioning what all is in that Lodging charge, cause I already looked up the costs at that Hotel and it's not that costly, also I'd like to know how many SS agents were there, flight costs etc. Just too much missing information for me to come to the conclusion that you have.
What's more shocking is that I clearly stated this was not filled out and submitted by Eric Trump, it was an internal SS expense report, and since they didn't stay at a Trump hotel, not one single penny is going into any of the Trumps pocket. So exactly how does your original question even matter? Who is abusing this the SS? or are they really lumping all expenses into one simple report instead of itemizing it like they should?
Round trip (business class) is about 4-5k per agent, but we don't know the number of agents involved or the travel arrangements etc. So if there was 6 agents, then the travel is 24-30k of that money...
If Eric and Don Jr are choosing expensive locations and choosing to have the secret service tag along, they are choosing to have the secret service need to pay for lodging at said expensive locations. Compound this with the fact that they are not cutting deals for the government when it stays at Trump properties and you have a family making the tax payer pay a premium for their lifestyle and getting money back into their pockets on the other end.
Accepting a government benefit while knowing it will cost the tax payers an unnecessary amount that the taxpayers cannot control is absolutely abusive.
Pushing it all off on hookers isn't a rational defense of this practice.
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(03-06-2020, 03:34 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Has he been caught doing dealings personally that involve his company and using his influence as POTUS for economic gain?
I see his son running the company with the day to day operations, and possibly with Trump aware of what's going on. No real issues with that.
It's easy for you to say, he should have it in a Blind Trust. It's not your money. if it was mine, I certainly would not put my livelihood in the hands of a stranger. And technically, in order to do exactly as he is supposed to, all of his assets must be sold (except personal living property) that's not exactly fair to ask of him since some are contracts that require approval from partners before he is allowed to sell it.
Maybe we should ask the former POTUS why he was the first to not use a Blind Trust to monitor his assets while in office? I don't recall many raising a stink about Obama not using one.
Caught? Please. Like that would matter.
Yeah, very easy for me to say that if you want to be the POTUS you stop doing business. Period.
You don't want that? Don't try to POTUS.
"Fair".
But congrats for bringing up Obama. That is not usually how someone defends Trump.
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(03-06-2020, 02:51 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Oh I agree plenty of room for abuse, but can't pin it all on Trump if the SS is not filling out the paperwork correctly, maybe they are hiding those pesky hooker costs that they can't get receipts for.
No issues with this, and I do not like everything that Trump does, and will not defend those things that I don't like, but in this case, I just want to get the details so that we can figure out if the criticism is deserved or not. So far I don't see to much in what we are currently talking about in regards to Trump abusing it, I see it more as the SS not filling out the forms with details, and lumping too much into one expense. That's not on Trump, that's on the SS agents involved.
I am going to look into what JS posted and start rummaging around there.
Eric could actually only charge the government for housekeeping as he said he would rather than force them to pay the maximum allowed by law. Trump could stop taking constant expensive trips that require that the secret service pay him for the trip. There's a free facility an hour away for weekend vacation. There are free facilities in DC to host foreign guests. Trump could stop the practice of golfing at far greater rates than his predecessors. He could stop the practice of traveling to a Trump property on average every 3 days.
The Secret Service is filing the paperwork, but the cost is 100% decided on by the Trumps, the requirement for the trips to Trump properties with no ability to price shop is 100% in control of Trump, and those in charge of the department controlling the paperwork are ultimately political appointees of Trump.
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