Fool's Gold

[Bengalholic]

A couple of excerpts from Dehner's latest article, that I agree with and was trying to say after the Steelers game:

'Was that the win that saved Zac Taylor’s job? The immediate reaction and euphoria Bengals fans experienced with the stunning 27-17 win against the Steelers on Monday Night Football had so many of you sending this question to me on Twitter.


I don’t know if Monday “saved” his job or merely secured it. But it’s safe to say breaking through against the Steelers in the intimidating fashion in which the Bengals did feels like the win he needed to provide belief and much-needed proof of concept for this staff to earn one more run with the intended pieces, plus another player cycle churning their guys.'


'This was one win. They are 5-24-1. This was one night where the players spent all week being disrespected and were about to play on national television knowing the entire football world was watching, waiting for them to meltdown.


Those are unique circumstances and hard not to wonder where the hell that kind of effort, energy and momentum have been all season. Part of the wave of momentum might be circumstantial considering the Steelers gifted the Bengals a few early turnovers.


You also wonder if this wasn’t a vintage ’90s Bengals December mirage.


Consider, the coaching staff was on the ropes every year from 1998-2001. During that four-year stretch, miserable Bengals teams repeatedly won a game in which they were double-digit underdogs or strung together a few wins to build belief in the next year.


Each time it turned out to be fool’s gold.'


The Steelers win was awesome and very fun to watch, but that game alone should have no impact on Taylor's future, IMO. Now if they win both of the next 2 games, then maybe it's a little more reasonable to talk about a 3rd year...but end of the years wins during lost seasons are always suspect in my mind, and history points to them not meaning much when it comes to the next season. 

Not trying to be negative here, only trying to look at things in terms of the overall picture. Outside of December, when the season is already in the crapper, Zac has a meager .114 win %. When the games actually count, he has done almost nothing. Like I said, winning both the remaining games would help his case, but I also think the overall body of work should still be a huge factor.

Of course, none of this probably matters at all because Mike has the final say on Zac's future and he's always seemed to put stock in these late season wins, using them to point to progress, regardless of how bad the season was as a whole. I expect Zac to be back, and I wouldn't be surprised if both Lou and Turner back as well. Personally, I don't think any of them should return because the overall body of work doesn't support bringing them back. 

That's just my opinion though and I know some will disagree, but I really think that bringing Zac back is just delaying the inevitable. I think it's a good time to make a change because there are a lot of solid potential HC and coordinator candidates that will be available and I doubt anyone would fault them for wanting to go in another direction.

[THE PISTONS]

Agreed. Probably fools gold. Where were these wins earlier in the year?

The Steelers gift turnovers helped.

[Essex Johnson]

(12-23-2020, 06:53 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: A couple of excerpts from Dehner's latest article, that I agree with and was trying to say after the Steelers game:

'Was that the win that saved Zac Taylor’s job? The immediate reaction and euphoria Bengals fans experienced with the stunning 27-17 win against the Steelers on Monday Night Football had so many of you sending this question to me on Twitter.


I don’t know if Monday “saved” his job or merely secured it. But it’s safe to say breaking through against the Steelers in the intimidating fashion in which the Bengals did feels like the win he needed to provide belief and much-needed proof of concept for this staff to earn one more run with the intended pieces, plus another player cycle churning their guys.'


'This was one win. They are 5-24-1. This was one night where the players spent all week being disrespected and were about to play on national television knowing the entire football world was watching, waiting for them to meltdown.


Those are unique circumstances and hard not to wonder where the hell that kind of effort, energy and momentum have been all season. Part of the wave of momentum might be circumstantial considering the Steelers gifted the Bengals a few early turnovers.


You also wonder if this wasn’t a vintage ’90s Bengals December mirage.


Consider, the coaching staff was on the ropes every year from 1998-2001. During that four-year stretch, miserable Bengals teams repeatedly won a game in which they were double-digit underdogs or strung together a few wins to build belief in the next year.


Each time it turned out to be fool’s gold.'


The Steelers win was awesome and very fun to watch, but that game alone should have no impact on Taylor's future, IMO. Now if they win both of the next 2 games, then maybe it's a little more reasonable to talk about a 3rd year...but end of the years wins during lost seasons are always suspect in my mind, and history points to them not meaning much when it comes to the next season. 

Not trying to be negative here, only trying to look at things in terms of the overall picture. Outside of December, when the season is already in the crapper, Zac has a meager .114 win %. When the games actually count, he has done almost nothing. Like I said, winning both the remaining games would help his case, but I also think the overall body of work should still be a huge factor.

Of course, none of this probably matters at all because Mike has the final say on Zac's future and he's always seemed to put stock in these late season wins, using them to point to progress, regardless of how bad the season was as a whole. I expect Zac to be back, and I wouldn't be surprised if both Lou and Turner back as well. Personally, I don't think any of them should return because the overall body of work doesn't support bringing them back. 

That's just my opinion though and I know some will disagree, but I really think that bringing Zac back is just delaying the inevitable. I think it's a good time to make a change because there are a lot of solid potential HC and coordinator candidates that will be available and I doubt anyone would fault them for wanting to go in another direction.

Fools gold was "thinking " ZT was in danger of losing his job.. The Bengals signed him and showed no indication he was on a 2 year contract string, they were going to give him a fair time to turn this team around so not sure where we got on this bandwagon that ZT was gone if he does not win in 2nd season but it seems on the Board we sure did

[THE PISTONS]

(12-23-2020, 07:27 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Fools gold was "thinking " ZT was in danger of losing his job.. The Bengals signed him and showed no indication he was on a 2 year contract string, they were going to give him a fair time to turn this team around so not sure where we got on this bandwagon that ZT was gone if he does not win in 2nd season but it seems on the Board we sure did

You're such a Zac fanboy.

What is a fair time to turn a team around? 2 years for the Dolphins and Cardinals.

Zac took a 6 win team and made it a 2 win team and a 3.5 win team. 1 win late in the year is supposed to make us forget he loses 80% of the time?

[Bengalholic]

(12-23-2020, 07:27 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Fools gold was "thinking " ZT was in danger of losing his job.. The Bengals signed him and showed no indication he was on a 2 year contract string, they were going to give him a fair time to turn this team around so not sure where we got on this bandwagon that ZT was gone if he does not win in 2nd season but it seems on the Board we sure did

The question about Zac getting a 3rd year isn't whether he was ever in any real danger of losing his job...it's about whether he SHOULD be in danger of losing his job. It's more of a question of how important winning really is to the front office. When you look at bringing Zac back for a 3rd year, and then look at the rest of the NFL, one doesn't seem like the others. 

[*bfine32*]

I wish we had more threads on how beating the Steelers was a bad thing.

[Bengalholic]

(12-23-2020, 07:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I wish we had more threads on how beating the Steelers was a bad thing.

Please point out where I said beating the Steelers was a bad thing. I'll wait...

[*bfine32*]

(12-23-2020, 07:38 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Please point out where I said beating the Steelers was a bad thing. I'll wait...

Fools gold is a good thing?

[Bengalholic]

(12-23-2020, 06:53 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: The Steelers win was awesome and very fun to watch

(12-23-2020, 07:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I wish we had more threads on how beating the Steelers was a bad thing.

[Bengalholic]

(12-23-2020, 07:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Fools gold is a good thing?

Winning a single game over the hated Steelers is great and very enjoyable, but it doesn't necessarily indicate anything in the bigger picture. But, of course, you already know that. 

[*bfine32*]

(12-23-2020, 07:40 PM)Bengalholic Wrote:

What was the very next word in your quoted sentence that you accidentally cut off?

[Bengalholic]

(12-23-2020, 07:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What was the very next word in your quoted sentence that you accidentally cut off?

'but that game alone should have no impact on Taylor's future, IMO'

So again, where is the 'beating the Steelers was bad' thing you were referring to?

[Devils Advocate]

I agree. It was a great win but only one. Hindsight tells us that that Steelers team has fallen apart. Ben can barely stand up or even throw. We should have won.

It was a step in the right direction and if they win the next two games- we could consider keeping him. But let’s not get too far ahead of ourselves.

It was a nice win though. One of my all time favorites. Doesn’t erase what’s already seemingly been proven.

A lot of ‘if’s’ in keeping Zac- that’s for sure.

[*bfine32*]

(12-23-2020, 07:51 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: 'but that game alone should have no impact on Taylor's future, IMO'

So again, where is the 'beating the Steelers was bad' thing you were referring to?

Roll with it. The entire gist of the thread is that this win was "bad" because it will most likely secure Zac's job, but you already kne w this.

Hell, this dude posted the exact same thread before you did:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Okay-This-is-Unsettling

But he most likely did imply the Steelr's win was a bad thing either. 

[Bengalholic]

(12-23-2020, 07:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Roll with it. The entire gist of the thread is that this win was "bad" because it will most likely secure Zac's job, but you already kne w this.

Hell, this dude posted the exact same thread before you did:

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Okay-This-is-Unsettling

But he most likely did imply the Steelr's win was a bad thing either. 

The 'gist' of this thread is that one win, no matter how great it was, should not be a determining factor in determining Zac's future, especially when given the history of such wins and when compared to the overall body of work. My OP has zero to do with the win itself being 'bad'...so I'm not even sure what you're point is.

[MileHighGrowler]

I just don't get why people can't see both sides of the same coin. On the one hand was a win over a hated rival on primetime. Awesome. We should celebrate it. It's fantastic and everyone should love every moment of it. The hit on JJSS, watching Ben fall apart, seeing dejected Steelers fans in the stands. Beautiful night.

But on the other hand, we've got a FO with a reputation for keeping HCs whose teams do the dead cat bounce. And there is a distinct possibility that the win on Monday secures another year for the current coaching staff, who have shown basically zero improvement in two seasons, and arguably took steps back since Marvin was fired for not being able to get the team to improve.

I think it's okay to see it both ways. The win was sweet, but it does not give me any warm fuzzies for the future. Doesn't mean I hate the team, doesn't mean I did or am rooting against them. Just seeing two facts that can be separated and accepted equally.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-23-2020, 08:05 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: I just don't get why people can't see both sides of the same coin.  On the one hand was a win over a hated rival on primetime.  Awesome.  We should celebrate it.  It's fantastic and everyone should love every moment of it.  The hit on JJSS, watching Ben fall apart, seeing dejected Steelers fans in the stands.  Beautiful night.  

But on the other hand, we've got a FO with a reputation for keeping HCs whose teams do the dead cat bounce.  And there is a distinct possibility that the win on Monday secures another year for the current coaching staff, who have shown basically zero improvement in two seasons, and arguably took steps back since Marvin was fired for not being able to get the team to improve.  

I think it's okay to see it both ways.  The win was sweet, but it does not give me any warm fuzzies for the future.  Doesn't mean I hate the team, doesn't mean I did or am rooting against them.  Just seeing two facts that can be separated and accepted equally.

Because that's too logical.

It's more fun to stir the pot and act oblivious while doing so.

[*bfine32*]

(12-23-2020, 08:05 PM)MileHighGrowler Wrote: I just don't get why people can't see both sides of the same coin.  On the one hand was a win over a hated rival on primetime.  Awesome.  We should celebrate it.  It's fantastic and everyone should love every moment of it.  The hit on JJSS, watching Ben fall apart, seeing dejected Steelers fans in the stands.  Beautiful night.  

But on the other hand, we've got a FO with a reputation for keeping HCs whose teams do the dead cat bounce.  And there is a distinct possibility that the win on Monday secures another year for the current coaching staff, who have shown basically zero improvement in two seasons, and arguably took steps back since Marvin was fired for not being able to get the team to improve.  

I think it's okay to see it both ways.  The win was sweet, but it does not give me any warm fuzzies for the future.  Doesn't mean I hate the team, doesn't mean I did or am rooting against them.  Just seeing two facts that can be separated and accepted equally.

Our front office keeps coaches "dead cat bounce" or not. Folks can say what they want but folks are unhappy that we won a football game. They will try to disguise it as: "but" "see it both ways" "I'm looking at the big picture" "I want to draft so and so" "I want coach so and so" but everybody who starts a thread or adds a post that diminishes or victory over our most hated rival are looking for the "bad" in our victory.

I get that some folks don't want to own this, but that's just the facts. Although I disagree with the mentality I do applaud the candor of those that freely assert "Beating the Steelers was bad"

To show you how to be happy about our win watch this:

This year's Senior Bowl has invited many of the top prospects that opted out this year and with NYJ and Jax most likely to shake up their coaching staffs the Bengals are most likely going to coach down there. 

Go Zac, Go Bengals, Who Dey!  

[Wes Mantooth]

(12-23-2020, 07:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Fools gold is a good thing?

Just because he said the win was fool's gold it doesn't mean that he's diminishing the win on it's own.

He's clearly talking about fool's gold as it relates to the bigger picture, and where we stand moving forward.

C'mon, you know this.  Don't pretend to be obtuse.  You're better than that.

:andy:

[*bfine32*]

(12-23-2020, 08:16 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Because that's too logical.

It's more fun to stir the pot and act oblivious while doing so.

meh..I was also accused of "not being logical" as I supported Marvin. 

How has logic worked out?

As for me I'll celebrate every Bengal victory and not look for the cloud in front of the silver lining.