French Soldiers Targeted

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Man, most of Europe sounds like it'd be pretty awful to be in for awhile now.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/vehicle-hits-soldiers-paris-suburb-injuring-49108138

Quote: A man rammed his car into a group of soldiers near Paris, injuring six of them, and then was cornered by police in a highway manhunt - the latest in what's become a disturbingly familiar pattern of attacks targeting French security forces.

It's unclear what motivated the driver, who was hospitalized with bullet wounds after the calculated morning ambush and an hours-long police chase. Authorities said he deliberately accelerated his BMW into a cluster of soldiers in what prosecutors are investigating as a potential terrorist attack.

President Emmanuel Macron went to Twitter to express his "congratulations to the forces of order that apprehended the perpetrator of the attack," and also to urge continued vigilance across the country.

Macron's government painted the incident in the suburb of Levallois-Perret as proof of the need to approve a new security law that critics contend infringes on liberties and would put France in a permanent state of emergency.

Wednesday's attack caused no deaths and hurt no civilians, but still set nerves on edge: It was the seventh attempted attack on security forces guarding France this year alone. While others have targeted prominent sites like the Eiffel Tower, Wednesday's attack hit the leafy, relatively affluent suburb of Levallois-Perret that is home to France's main intelligence service, the DGSI, and its counterterrorism service.

"We know it was a deliberate act," Interior Minister Gerard Collomb said. Defense Minister Florence Parly called it a reminder that extra security measures imposed in recent years are "more necessary than ever."

On a quiet summer morning, the suspect was seen waiting in a black BMW in a cul-de-sac near the Levallois city hall and a building used as a staging point for soldiers in France's operation to protect prominent sites, according to two police officials, who like others connected to the case weren't authorized to be publicly named because of the ongoing police operation.

A group of soldiers emerged from the building to board vehicles for a new shift when the car sped up and rammed into them, its force hurling the soldiers against their van, one of the officials said. Collomb said the car first approached slowly then sped up about five meters (yards) from its target.

A nearby resident described hearing an ear-piercing scream of pain, then soldiers chasing after the fleeing car.

Authorities checked video surveillance of the area and police fanned out and stopped numerous cars as they searched for the attacker.

Then, on the A16 highway near the English Channel port of Calais, police stopped what Prime Minister Edouard Philippe called the "principal suspect." Images of the arrest scene showed emergency vehicles surrounding a black BMW with a damaged windshield, on a cordoned-off highway in the midst of verdant fields.

Police officers opened fire during the arrest to subdue the man, and the suspect was injured along with an officer hit by a stray police bullet, a judicial official said.

The suspect was hospitalized, the official said, but his condition wasn't immediately clear.

One police official said the suspect may be an illegal North African immigrant in his 30s, while another said he was an Algerian with French residency papers. The government and prosecutors would not release information about his identity.

Heavily armed, masked police searched a building believed linked to the attacker in the Paris suburb of Bezons on Wednesday night.

The defense minister said she received "reassuring" news about the condition of the injured soldiers, and that their lives aren't in danger.

The soldiers were from the 35th infantry regiment and served in Operation Sentinelle, created to guard prominent French sites after a string of deadly Islamic extremist attacks in 2015.

A witness to the car attack, Nadia LeProhon, was startled by a loud crash outside her building and rushed outside her seventh-floor window to see two soldiers on the ground. Other soldiers ran after a speeding car, shouting "After him! Follow that car!"

"I'll never forget that scream - a scream of pain and distress," she told The Associated Press.

Resident Jean-Claude Veillant said he saw two uniformed soldiers on the ground. "It was horrible," he said, adding that both soldiers appeared to be in bad shape and one of them was unconscious.

The street is normally protected by retractable posts that are removed when vehicles move in and out, so the driver must have known exactly when to strike, Veillant said. "They must've really planned this," he said.

Counterterrorism prosecutors opened an investigation on potential charges of attempted murder of security forces in connection with a terrorist enterprise, the Paris prosecutor's office said.

Philippe, the prime minister, said that despite a sustained "high threat" against France, the government is sticking to plans to lift a 21-month state of emergency.

Speaking to lawmakers, he insisted that a new bill enshrining permanent counterterrorism measures would be enough to replace the state of emergency, imposed after deadly Islamic extremist attacks in November 2015. The bill is currently under parliamentary debate, ahead of an expected end to the state of emergency on Nov. 1.

Macron discussed the attack at a security meeting Wednesday and at a weekly Cabinet meeting.

[Arturo Bandini]

It's like saying America is under fire everytime a dude makes a mass shooting in an university.

France is quieter than you think.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

UPDATE: Turns out he's an Algerian national named Hamou Benlatreche. He's a practicing Muslim with no criminal history and not on any watch list.

[GMDino]

(08-10-2017, 11:54 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: UPDATE: Turns out he's an Algerian national named Hamou Benlatreche. He's a practicing Muslim with no criminal history and not on any watch list.

So random crazy guy.  Why does being a practicing Muslim matter then? 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-10-2017, 12:01 PM)GMDino Wrote: So random crazy guy.  Why does being a practicing Muslim matter then? 

You're trying too hard.

"Hey, I know Muslims have been running people over pretty frequently in this country, but what does this guy who accelerated and aimed for a group of soldiers being a Muslim have to do with anything?"

[GMDino]

(08-10-2017, 12:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You're trying too hard.

"Hey, I know Muslims have been running people over pretty frequently in this country, but what does this guy who accelerated and aimed for a group of soldiers being a Muslim have to do with anything?"

(08-10-2017, 11:54 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: UPDATE: Turns out he's an Algerian national named Hamou Benlatreche. He's a practicing Muslim with no criminal history and not on any watch list.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-10-2017, 12:22 PM)GMDino Wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack

Clearly his being Muslim was unrelated to the attack then, too... because if you don't have a criminal history, you clearly can't be a terrorist according to you.

If only the rest of the world were as clever as you, GMD.

[GMDino]

(08-10-2017, 12:30 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack

Clearly his being Muslim was unrelated to the attack then, too... because if you don't have a criminal history, you clearly can't be a terrorist according to you.

If only the rest of the world were as clever as you, GMD.

If this person had ties to terrorists...he is a terrorist.

I don't care if he was Muslim or Christian or Atheist.  

But by throwing in the religion of a man with no criminal history or on any watch list it serves only to forward the fear and hatred of an entire group over the actions of another member.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-10-2017, 12:01 PM)GMDino Wrote: So random crazy guy.  Why does being a practicing Muslim matter then? 

Maybe it explains why someone who has committed no crimes prior would suddenly commit murder.

Just sayin'.

[GMDino]

(08-10-2017, 01:05 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Maybe it explains why someone who has committed no crimes prior would suddenly commit murder.

Just sayin'.

Because just being a practicing Muslim means that person is always a potential murderer?  

[BmorePat87]

(08-10-2017, 11:42 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: It's like saying America is under fire everytime a dude makes a mass shooting in an university.

France is quieter than you think.

American logic, man. A guy drives a car into a group of people and doesn't kill any means that any and all muslims are a threat. If a guy uses a legally purchased gun to kill 10 people, it's the university's fault for not allowing guns on campus. 

The US has a higher murder rate than all Europe nations besides Russia and Lithuania. Europe is the dangerous place. 

[*PhilHos*]

(08-10-2017, 01:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: Because just being a practicing Muslim means that person is always a potential murderer?  

If you've got some other reason why this ordinary, non-criminal would seemingly out-of-nowhere commit a terrorist act, by all means, share it.

[GMDino]

(08-10-2017, 03:37 PM)PhilHos Wrote: If you've got some other reason why this ordinary, non-criminal would seemingly out-of-nowhere commit a terrorist act, by all means, share it.

Bad day?  Bad year?  Mental issues?  Mother was raped by a soldier? Drugs?  Alcohol? 

[StLucieBengal]

(08-10-2017, 12:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You're trying too hard.

"Hey, I know Muslims have been running people over pretty frequently in this country, but what does this guy who accelerated and aimed for a group of soldiers being a Muslim have to do with anything?"

Every time we see a story like this it's always an safe bet it's a Muslim or migrant.

It's a shame and as Europe allows these people to come across their borders they will always get this stuff.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-10-2017, 03:44 PM)GMDino Wrote: Bad day?  Bad year?  Mental issues?  Mother was raped by a soldier? Drugs?  Alcohol? 

Got any evidence of this guy having any of that?

Let's say TheLeonardLeap said: "UPDATE: Turns out he's an Algerian national named Hamou Benlatreche. He has no criminal history and not on any watch list but his Mom has a history of schizophrenia .


Would you be questioning TLL's inclusion of his Mom's mental history? 

[GMDino]

(08-10-2017, 04:01 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Got any evidence of this guy having any of that?

Let's say TheLeonardLeap said: "UPDATE: Turns out he's an Algerian national named Hamou Benlatreche. He has no criminal history and not on any watch list but his Mom has a history of schizophrenia .


Would you be questioning TLL's inclusion of his Mom's mental history? 

I have no evidence of anything.  I was asked to submit any other possible reasons behind what he did.

I did that.

Maybe he just REALLY hated soldiers.  Or people in France.  His religion may have had nothing to do with it.

Just like when the race of an officer is used in a shooting.  People gnash their teeth and beat their breasts at the "race baiting" going on.  

Just doesn't matter to me.  A terrorist is a terrorist.  A criminal is a criminal.

A person with a family history of mental issues is still guilty.  A person who uses a religious ideology (or a political one) to justify their acts of violence is still guilty.  But I can at least have a little sympathy for a person who isn't all there mentally.  Although, thinking about that, that might include the overly religious also.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-10-2017, 03:44 PM)GMDino Wrote: Bad day?  Bad year?  Mental issues?  Mother was raped by a soldier? Drugs?  Alcohol? 

Okay, here's what we can do. You give us the odds on the following causes of why he did it...

Bad Day:
Bad Year:
Mental Issues:
Mother Raped By Soldiers:
Drugs:
Alcohol:
Muslim:

We will then bet real money on it, based off of your odds, and you will pay off on those bets according to those odds when we find out why he accelerated and turned into a group of soldiers.

Of course you'll be willing to give Muslim the biggest payout since clearly religion has nothing to do with it, and you are the one who provided all the other possibilities, right?

- - - - - -

My point is, just because they are possibilities, doesn't mean they are likelihoods. Pretending otherwise is silly. You know it's because he's Muslim. I know it's because he's Muslim. We ALL know it's because he's Muslim. It'd be a lot easier if you just stopped pretending.

[GMDino]

(08-10-2017, 04:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Okay, here's what we can do. You give us the odds on the following causes of why he did it...

Bad Day:
Bad Year:
Mental Issues:
Mother Raped By Soldiers:
Drugs:
Alcohol:
Muslim:

We will then bet real money on it, based off of your odds, and you will pay off on those bets according to those odds when we find out why he accelerated and turned into a group of soldiers.

Of course you'll be willing to give Muslim the biggest payout since clearly religion has nothing to do with it, and you are the one who provided all the other possibilities, right?

- - - - - -

My point is, just because they are possibilities, doesn't mean they are likelihoods. Pretending otherwise is silly. You know it's because he's Muslim. I know it's because he's Muslim. We ALL know it's because he's Muslim. It'd be a lot easier if you just stopped pretending.

One, I don't gamble...but thanks for the offer. 

Two, if he is Muslim that committed a crime that doesn't be he did it because he is a Muslim.

I'm guessing that's where we are differing.  

Edit: I should add for clarity that I *do* understand that Muslim's commit crimes because of their view of their religion. That, to me, is still the individuals fault...not every member of the religion.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-10-2017, 04:07 PM)GMDino Wrote: I was asked to submit any other possible reasons behind what he did.

No you weren't. I specifically asked you if you knew of any other reason why this particular guy commited this act. You know as much about this guy as I do. You have no idea if any ot those responses you gave are legitimate. We do know he's a Muslim. And barring any other information that suggests otherwise, that's the most likely reason he commited this act.
I can freely admit that most Muslims are peace-loving non-terrorists. But, I can also admit that there are a significant number of people claiming to be Muslims that believe in using terrorism to advance their cause. If a person commits a terroristic act and is also a Muslim, why is it so hard for you to accept that maybe this person did so in the name of his religion?

[GMDino]

(08-10-2017, 04:43 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No you weren't. I specifically asked you if you knew of any other reason why this particular guy commited this act.

Well no one knows why...for example:

(08-10-2017, 04:43 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You know as much about this guy as I do. You have no idea if any ot those responses you gave are legitimate. We do know he's a Muslim. And barring any other information that suggests otherwise, that's the most likely reason he commited this act.

See?

(08-10-2017, 04:43 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I can freely admit that most Muslims are peace-loving non-terrorists. But, I can also admit that there are a significant number of people claiming to be Muslims that believe in using terrorism to advance their cause. If a person commits a terroristic act and is also a Muslim, why is it so hard for you to accept that maybe this person did so in the name of his religion?

If a person commits a crime (was this a terrorist act because it was against soldiers or because he was a Muslim?) if a person commits a crime and they are a Christian and we know nothing else about them does that mean his religion was the cause?

Or can we eliminate that factor because "I can freely admit that most Muslims Christians are peace-loving non-terrorists."?

It may be he was ideologically predisposed to commit this crime. Perhaps his twisted beliefs of his own religion led him to it. If so does that make it worse? Better? Does it matter?