Front office

[Sled21]

(10-02-2023, 03:03 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Dax Hill is not playing like an all pro. He's been solid, but he's had his issues at times. 

And Bates wasn't always "Playoff Jesse" until playoff time if you remember. It's natural to long for things that are gone, but as much as I like Bates, I think Hill will be better. I do miss Bell, but he went where they paid him more. 

[casear2727]

(10-02-2023, 03:58 AM)J24 Wrote: 1.) Bates is elite; look at what he is doing in ATL this year. 3 picks with 2 forced fumbles. 

2.) We need a pass rusher that can exploit weaknesses up and down the opposing offensive line. While also getting TFLs in the run game.
Reader while a great NT isn't that guy. Yes I know that his job is to take up space(which he is great at) and he is a very good pass rusher for a NT. 

3.) I gave you the stats and their not similar in anyway outside of QB Rating. Which was do to an outlier game by Cousins against a bad team in New York. Burrow has clearly been better in the playoffs then Kirk. Look at thier respective game logs and compare the two.




4) You-" Dax Hill and Britt are good players and will be stars" also you "We don't draft well at the end of rounds". Dax Hill was drafted with the 31st pick and Britt was drafted with the 60th pick.  So do you  not like those players now or were they good picks.( I'm not sure if you used the term "stars" but I know you think highly of them as players.)

 It's week 4 of the NFL season we have very little information on how this  past draft will grade out. I would say that the early feed back is favorable to a good draft. Murphy had a sack today, Turner has looked good in coverage, and Chuck sizzle has a punt return for.a TD this season. All those picks happened to be in the bottom third of their respective rounds.

10 straight wins is impressive no matter what in my book if it's not to you then ok. 
  
Bates has had an 2nd team All Pro season and was the #1 rated Safety in 2020 according to PFF. He was a Top 10 Safety in 2023 according to PFF as well.
In the 2021 playoffs he had 6 pass breakups and 2 INT. He also forced the game changing INT for Vonn Bell in the AFC championship game. 
He lead the team in INTs along with Vonn Bell last season. He had a key TFL in the Wild Card game and saved a TD from happening (which lead to Hubbard's famous TD) on a long run.

Knocking him for giving up a TD to travis Kelce(arguably the greatest TE ever)is weird and the second TD was on Hilton.
https://atozsports.com/cincinnati/news-bengals-need-to-listen-to-joe-burrow-cincinnati/
Joe Burrow has a good quote on what Jessie meant to the team and his leadership. Also Reader and Auwzie are free agents + Hilton could be cut next off season. So we might have a huge leadership loss next season.
Also just curious; Why is it stupid to pay a safety big bucks?
Off topic
Were on a message board  and being the smartest football guy here is like being the tallest dwarf. It doesn't mean shit.
Take it from me (who has been an asshole in the past on this very board); this is a cool place and a great community to be a part of. You don't want to burn too many bridges here by being a jackass like myself.
I have learning disability and I get emotional( not anyone's fault but my own that i get emotional) when people elude to me being stupid. So I would appreciate it if you didn't make fun of my reading comprehension skills or things like that it hits different for me.

Im glad Bates is having a good first 4 games, he had a great 2020, but EVERYONE  knows he was awful in 2021 with ONE INT and 3 pass breakups for the ENTIRE season.  Last year his PFFF score was 71, not remotely close to the Top 10.  Wanting to pay him 16M is beyond dumb to me.

NT are not supposed to be great pass rushers, someone that knows an ounce of ball knows this.

Cousins again?  You are knucklehead, you went after another poster who mentioned his stats, yet not one person has claimed that he is better than Joe, your lack of comprehension is mind-numbing.  (I see now you admit to having poor comprehension skills, but geeez).

I NEVER said Dax or CTB will be "stars", once again you make things up to try to make a point.  You really lose credibility with these takes. 

I can have my own opinion on the last 2 draft classes, you know very little about ball so it is comical watching you coming after anyone.

I dont disparage Bates for the Kelce TD, but your lack of ball knowledge is magnified on the Hilton TD, Bates was suckered out of position in the middle of the filed, he ABSOLUTELY GAVE UP THAT AREA, but since you dont know ball you dont know this.  Go watch the film again and watch Bates.  

Every team in the NFL loses good players every year.  It doesnt take a genius to know this.

If you dont know why it would be a bad decision to pay Bates 16M after his 2021 and 2022 campaigns then you truly do not understand the structure of this team or the cap.  Safety is the lowest valued positon on defense.

I have zero doubt that I know more about ball than you and Im no Vince Lombardi, I like you, but your takes are just bad at times, just like this one stating Burrow is simply bad now and his calf has nothing to do with his limited, awful play. 

If you do not want to be corrected then double check what you are typing, because that last comment was really off.    

Im not concerned about burning bridges and I dont want to be a jackass to anyone here, you admit that you have been but there is no reason to do be like that.  Maybe drop this conversation and discuss another topic?

[*ochocincos*]

(10-01-2023, 08:45 PM)J24 Wrote: Why do they always get a free pass from this fan Base? Duke and The Blackburns have been responsible for selecting players for the past decade +. However when anything ever goes  wrong it either Marvin or Zacs fault. Their the ones that haven't drafted a decent offensive lineman in 10 + years and their the ones that let All Pro Players go for nothing(Whitorth and Bates).

The FO did not draft the players.
The FO did not call the plays.
The FO did not pick which players to bring in via FA.
The FO did not make decision on playing Burrow while he's dealing with a hamstring injury (although maybe they are?)

What you can put (partial) blame on the FO for:
- Contracts
- Coaches hired (although that might fully be decision by Taylor and his direct reports)

EDIT - Duke Tobin is not part of the FO in the above that I listed. He should be the primary person responsible for the player personnel brought in. Both FA and draft picks.

[J24]

(10-02-2023, 05:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The FO did not draft the players.
The FO did not call the plays.
The FO did not pick which players to bring in via FA.
The FO did not make decision on playing Burrow while he's dealing with a hamstring injury (although maybe they are?)

What you can put (partial) blame on the FO for:
- Contracts
- Coaches hired (although that might fully be decision by Taylor and his direct reports)

EDIT - Duke Tobin is not part of the FO in the above that I listed. He should be the primary person responsible for the player personnel brought in. Both FA and draft picks.

How is Duke not apart of the front office?

[*ochocincos*]

(10-02-2023, 05:25 PM)J24 Wrote: How is Duke not apart of the front office?

I...already explained why I don't consider him part?
He's the director of player personnel, is he not?
He's not one of the executives like the Blackburns or Mike Brown.
Those execs are who I consider the FO.

[J24]

(10-02-2023, 05:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I...already explained why I don't consider him part?
He's the director of player personnel, is he not?
He's not one of the executives like the Blackburns or Mike Brown.
Those execs are who I consider the FO.

He's the defacto GM of the team. You know this shit man. He helped hire Zac and he's the guy that is always doing interviews at the combine. He is essentially a member of the FO.

Anyways we agree he deserves credit and Blame for the construction of this roster. Which is the main point of this thread.

[TheFan]

(10-02-2023, 03:10 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Dax could end up being that guy by year-end but thank you for admitting that losing Bates AND Bell set the team back.

I think we would have been fine with losing one. We didn't need both. Either one of them with Hill would have mostly been a wash or mild downgrade. 

We were never going to pay Bates and shouldn't have paid him the money he got. Bells contract was reasonable though and something we could have done or gone after someone else of similar skill, which is not Nick Scott. 

[TheFan]

(10-02-2023, 03:03 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Dax Hill is not playing like an all pro. He's been solid, but he's had his issues at times. 

What makes Bates play a clear cut all pro level but not Dax? I will say I haven't really watched most Atlanta games but I would guess you've also watched more Bengals that Hawks, maybe not though with how the Bengals have played this year though. 

Bates has more TOs but Dax has as many passes defended and more tackles, solo tackles, TFL, and sacks. 

Again, not saying Jessie hasn't played better but Hill has definitely step in for not too much of a drop at 1 safety position. Isn't Scott typically in the Bates role anyways? 

[THE PISTONS]

(10-02-2023, 04:02 PM)Sled21 Wrote: And Bates wasn't always "Playoff Jesse" until playoff time if you remember. It's natural to long for things that are gone, but as much as I like Bates, I think Hill will be better. I do miss Bell, but he went where they paid him more. 

Yeah. He was average a lot. Great at times too.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-02-2023, 05:39 PM)J24 Wrote: He's the defacto GM of the team. You know this shit man. He helped hire Zac and he's the guy that is always doing interviews at the combine. He is essentially a member of the FO.

Anyways we agree he deserves credit and Blame for the construction of this roster. Which is the main point of this thread.

I know he's considered the defacto GM, but I've still never considered him really part of the FO (for some reason).

If lumping him in with the FO, I definitely put more blame/credit on the FO than I had been.

But the Blackburns and Mike Brown are the ones who immediately come into my mind when people say FO.

[*Go Cards*]

Not blaming FO for failures and would like to applaud them for putting forth the effort to become great. If they swing and miss its ok with me as long as they keep swinging for the fence.

Think the FO and coaches all expected to be able to retain Perrine and Bell and was surprised when the rug was pulled out from under them and it obviously hurt. Don't blame them for not overpaying though. I personally wanted a TE and back up QB added but was ecstatic to see Brown added at LT which was above what I expected to happen there.

That being said I am not as down on Browning as most are on here, yet obviously I've banged on the drums for Bridgewater as doing for many years now lol.

Am extremely happy with Dax though, and Bates wanted too much money to keep. Plus he checks out at times, when focused he is great, just doesn't happen enough to pay him that kind of cabbage imho.