GOP establishment doing everything it can to stop Trump and Cruz

[StLucieBengal]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/iowa-becomes-a-free-for-all-among-gop-establishment-candidates/2015/12/30/48f8e7f8-af06-11e5-b820-eea4d64be2a1_story.html

Just knowing the establishment (progressives) are against them tells me all I need to know.

[BmorePat87]

that the party is worried a former Democrat and neocon are going to make them lose 2016?

[StLucieBengal]

Cruz will win the general.

The establishment is worried if we elect him people will figure out that having a conservative is a good thing.

As for trump.... I have been consistent that he is a progressive at heart.

[Benton]

...that if it puts up the rinos they aren't getting elected?

[Belsnickel]

(12-31-2015, 07:40 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: that the party is worried a former Democrat and neocon are going to make them lose 2016?

Yup. Neither one is a true conservative. Well, Cruz is definitely a neo-con, but not a true conservative for sure. He would only be a conservative to those in favor of liberty for everyone so long as they follow their moral ideals.

[StLucieBengal]

(12-31-2015, 08:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yup. Neither one is a true conservative. Well, Cruz is definitely a neo-con, but not a true conservative for sure. He would only be a conservative to those in favor of liberty for everyone so long as they follow their moral ideals.

Cruz and Rand are the closest to a true conservative that we have... The issue is we need to kill off the establishment and start getting conservative candidates.

I don't see eye to eye with all of Cruz's positions but he is the next best chance for a conservative after Rand.

[treee]

Well no shit. They're not going to attract very many independent votes. Trump, Cruz, and Carson are all not electable in the general election. They're too far right.

[BonnieBengal]

(12-31-2015, 07:40 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: that the party is worried a former Democrat and neocon are going to make them lose 2016?

Ronald Reagan was a former Democrat and he won in a landslide.  I don't know why the GOP establishment thinks they have the answer.  They've done nothing but lose.

[JustWinBaby]

(12-31-2015, 10:23 PM)treee Wrote: Well no shit. They're not going to attract very many independent votes. Trump, Cruz, and Carson are all not electable in the general election. They're too far right.

I don't think their political "position" has anything to do with it.  Trump is an idiot asshole, Carson is a loon, and Cruz is a poser.


And Rubio is the Republican Obama...I don't trust Hillary, at all, but I think she may be more effective.

[samhain]

I agree with the people in this thread that believe trump is a liberal at heart. He certainly is not a conservative. He'll want things done his way regardless of checks and balances, and will go about business much as Obama has with executive orders if need be.

I'd be scared as hell if I were part of the conservative establishment. Trumps followers are so loyal that he could do almost anything and get away with it. People will look at this and assume it will always be acting to force republican policies down the nation's throat, but I'm not so sure. He's the kind of candidate that could expand government and still maintain popularity among his base through sheer personality and celebrity. All he has to do is say that he's doing it to "make America great again". If he did, I seriously doubt he's face the kind of animosity that Obama has as a result of his policies.

[fredtoast]

(12-31-2015, 02:00 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Just knowing the establishment (progressives) are against them tells me all I need to know.

Yep,  Neither of them could win the general election.

[fredtoast]

(12-31-2015, 11:06 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Ronald Reagan was a former Democrat and he won in a landslide.  I don't know why the GOP establishment thinks they have the answer.  They've done nothing but lose.

They have lost because more moderate and middle-of-the-road voters have voted Democrat.  Going more conseravtive will just make them lose by a wider margin.

[GMDino]

(01-02-2016, 12:34 AM)samhain Wrote: I agree with the people in this thread that believe trump is a liberal at heart.  He certainly is not a conservative.  He'll want things done his way regardless of checks and balances, and will go about business much as Obama has with executive orders if need be.

I'd be scared as hell if I were part of the conservative establishment.  Trumps followers are so loyal that he could do almost anything and get away with it.  People will look at this and assume it will always be acting to force republican policies down the nation's throat, but I'm not so sure.  He's the kind of candidate that could expand government and still maintain popularity among his base through sheer personality and celebrity.  All he has to do is say that he's doing it to "make America great again".  If he did, I seriously doubt he's face the kind of animosity that Obama has as a result of his policies.

Just as a small point of order...President Obama hasn't used Executive Orders as much as most recent presidents have.  So if Trump did use them a lot he'd be following a long line of presidents that used them.

[fredtoast]

Obama does not use executive orders more than any other President.

What everyone fails to note when they cry about executive orders is that Congress can overrule any of them that they want. But right now Congress is so totally screwed up that they can't pass a law on anything.

What we need to do mis find someway to fix the problem with Congress. you know what the big new bill coming out of the House is? A meaningless bill to gut the ACA and defund Planned Parenthood that will be immediately vetoed by the President. All they care about is political theater instead of working together to pass legislation to address real problems.

[Vlad]

(01-07-2016, 10:33 AM)GMDino Wrote: Just as a small point of order...President Obama hasn't used Executive Orders as much as most recent presidents have.  So if Trump did use them a lot he'd be following a long line of presidents that used them.

 

You're again missing the point. It's not about how many, which you people always allude to in order to absolve your guy.  Its always been been about undermining congress . Obamas executive orders are a response to congress refusal or inaction to pass a law.
If congress doesn't see it my way, **** em, wheres my pen?

Regarding immigration, Bush's and Reagan also enacted executive orders regarding immigration, but they were a part of an immigration overhaul already approved by congress. 
The latest ex order regarding gun control, another example. No action by congress?  Get the effing the pen.

Was Idi Amin the worlds first black dictator?

[Belsnickel]

(01-07-2016, 11:16 AM)fredtoast Wrote: All they care about is political theater instead of working together to pass legislation to address real problems.

This is the truest statement here. Our elected officials care more about the show than about governing. The problem with this it that when you have a legislative body that acts in such a manner someone has to do something. The system of checks and balances then becomes seen as a burden rather than a benefit.

"A republic, if you can keep it" were the words of Benjamin Franklin, and right now our republic seems to be breaking down because of that line right there. We have an ineffective legislature and that needs to change. Just think about how many continuances we have to have because they can't even pass a budget. The two-party system we have is failing us, IMHO, and we are going to lose our republic.

[StLucieBengal]

(01-07-2016, 02:10 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yep,  Neither of them could win the general election.

Cruz would no doubt win the general. He has done a good job of being less combative.

As for trump I don't think so either but I am sure there are plenty of democrats who will vote for him because he is a celebrity .

[fredtoast]

Not a single member of congress should be allowed to complain about executive orders because they have the power to overrule them.

If you don't like them then do your damn job and pass a law. But they can't pass a law because they have to spend all their time begging for money to get re-elected and pointing fingers at the other side.

And since Vlad will not get the point let me make it clear that I am talking about both parties.

[StLucieBengal]

(01-07-2016, 11:55 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not a single member of congress should be allowed to complain about executive orders because they have the power to overrule them.

If you don't like them then do your damn job and pass a law.  But they can't pass a law because they have to spend all their time begging for money to get re-elected and pointing fingers  at the other side.

And since Vlad will not get the point let me make it clear that I am talking about both parties.

Agreed.. Both parties are to blame.   Everything should be a simple majority vote.

[Rotobeast]

(01-07-2016, 11:24 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is the truest statement here. Our elected officials care more about the show than about governing. The problem with this it that when you have a legislative body that acts in such a manner someone has to do something. The system of checks and balances then becomes seen as a burden rather than a benefit.

"A republic, if you can keep it" were the words of Benjamin Franklin, and right now our republic seems to be breaking down because of that line right there. We have an ineffective legislature and that needs to change. Just think about how many continuances we have to have because they can't even pass a budget. The two-party system we have is failing us, IMHO, and we are going to lose our republic.

And it's a damn shame.
All they care about is job security.