German Hostage Found Dead

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Biden State Department official Mathew Miller on why so few female hostages have been released.

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/r1j3ooisp



"U.S. State Department Spokesperson Mathew Miller on Monday confirmed behind-the-scenes speculations by senior Israeli officials that Hamas refused to release ten Israeli women hostages who are known to be alive, leading to the collapse of a weeklong truce in Gaza, fearing that their accounts from captivity could significantly tarnish Hamas's reputation.


It seems one of the reasons they don't want to turn women over... and the reason this pause fell apart is they don't want those women to be able to talk about what happened to them during their time in custody," he told the press."

Of course, this can't be true, as our resident "expert" has assured us all that Hamas doesn't care about their reputation and would be happy for their widespread use of gang rape to become common knowledge.

[Millhouse]

(12-04-2023, 07:48 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Biden State Department official Mathew Miller on why so few female hostages have been released.

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/r1j3ooisp



"U.S. State Department Spokesperson Mathew Miller on Monday confirmed behind-the-scenes speculations by senior Israeli officials that Hamas refused to release ten Israeli women hostages who are known to be alive, leading to the collapse of a weeklong truce in Gaza, fearing that their accounts from captivity could significantly tarnish Hamas's reputation.


It seems one of the reasons they don't want to turn women over... and the reason this pause fell apart is they don't want those women to be able to talk about what happened to them during their time in custody," he told the press."

Of course, this can't be true, as our resident "expert" has assured us all that Hamas doesn't care about their reputation and would be happy for their widespread use of gang rape to become common knowledge.

I'll be surprised if they ever are released. Wouldn't put it past Hamas that they will round them all up and put them in some refugee hospital, and then blow it up blaming Israel.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-04-2023, 09:51 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I'll be surprised if they ever are released. Wouldn't put it past Hamas that they will round them all up and put them in some refugee hospital, and then blow it up blaming Israel.

Which is, sadly, exactly what I predicted in this thread weeks ago.  We know Hamas are habitual liars.  We know they are gang rapists and kidnappers.  We know they are terrorists.  Yet some find it hard, if not impossible, to condemn them and those people seem to only reside on the far left.  Not exactly my definition of progressive.  We hear an awful lot about the dangers of "white supremacy", but the antisemitism I'm seeing on a daily basis does not seem to be coming from "white supremacists".  The left has a lot of housekeeping to do and I don't think many Dem politicians are up for it.

[Dill]

(12-04-2023, 09:56 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Which is, sadly, exactly what I predicted in this thread weeks ago.  We know Hamas are habitual liars.  We know they are gang rapists and kidnappers.  We know they are terrorists.  Yet some find it hard, if not impossible, to condemn them and those people seem to only reside on the far left.  Not exactly my definition of progressive.  We hear an awful lot about the dangers of "white supremacy", but the antisemitism I'm seeing on a daily basis does not seem to be coming from "white supremacists".  The left has a lot of housekeeping to do and I don't think many Dem politicians are up for it.

I think everyone in this forum agrees that lying and rape are bad, whoever does them.
I know of no one here who wouldn't or hasn't already condemned Hamas.
But you write as if Hamas has its own special cheering section, people who find it "hard, if not impossible," to condemn it.

And you don't seem to have any plan for discussion, beyond leveraging "condemnation" to groups beyond Hamas, 
e.g., "far left" groups who defend universal human rights.    

White supremacists are using the current Hamas-Israel War to exploit racial tensions in the US, but their
target is also Muslims, which "the Jews" have supposedly brought into the country to replace us.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/us-world/article/nazi-antisemitism-israel-hamas-18476691.php
https://www.techtransparencyproject.org/articles/white-supremacists-on-x-premium-use-israel-hamas-conflict

So what sort of "anti-semitism" are you seeing on a daily basis, that is not coming from "white supremacists"? 
Perhaps you are stretching the term to include anyone who criticizes Israeli policy?  

[Dill]

(12-04-2023, 09:51 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I'll be surprised if they ever are released. Wouldn't put it past Hamas that they will round them all up and put them in some refugee hospital, and then blow it up blaming Israel.

Would you put it past Israel to deliberately bomb a hospital and call it an "accident"? 

[Millhouse]

(12-05-2023, 09:43 AM)Dill Wrote: Would you put it past Israel to deliberately bomb a hospital and call it an "accident"? 

Have a Happy Holiday season

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-05-2023, 09:25 AM)Dill Wrote: I think everyone in this forum agrees that lying and rape are bad, whoever does them.
I know of no one here who wouldn't or hasn't already condemned Hamas.
But you write as if Hamas has its own special cheering section, people who find it "hard, if not impossible," to condemn it.

They do, one need only look at Harvard or Penn state for examples.  Or the numerous protests with people repeating calls for genocide and labeling Hamas as "freedom fighters".

Quote:And you don't seem to have any plan for discussion, beyond leveraging "condemnation" to groups beyond Hamas, 
e.g., "far left" groups who defend universal human rights. 

   
Oh, what groups would those be?

Quote:White supremacists are using the current Hamas-Israel War to exploit racial tensions in the US, but their
target is also Muslims, which "the Jews" have supposedly brought into the country to replace us.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/us-world/article/nazi-antisemitism-israel-hamas-18476691.php
https://www.techtransparencyproject.org/articles/white-supremacists-on-x-premium-use-israel-hamas-conflict

Yeah, bad people will do bad things.  You will though please excuse me for worrying far more about the group numbering tens of thousands over the group numbering tens.  Gaslighting us to focus on white supremacists so we ignore the rabid antisemitism on display at nearly every pro-Palestine rally isn't going to work.

Quote:So what sort of "anti-semitism" are you seeing on a daily basis, that is not coming from "white supremacists"? 
Perhaps you are stretching the term to include anyone who criticizes Israeli policy?  

Oh, you actually need examples?  Or is this more gaslighting?

(12-05-2023, 09:43 AM)Dill Wrote: Would you put it past Israel to deliberately bomb a hospital and call it an "accident"? 

Wow, just wow.  I think Millhouse had the right move here.  Take a long look in the mirror, dude.  

[basballguy]

BBC reporting they’ve seen actual evidence of the atrocities committed by Hamas at the music festival.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

Just militants doing militant stuff…no terrorism here!

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-05-2023, 10:42 PM)basballguy Wrote: BBC reporting they’ve seen actual evidence of the atrocities committed by Hamas at the music festival.  

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

Just militants doing militant stuff…no terrorism here!

This conflict has done more than any other subject to show the moral bankruptcy of the "progressive" left.  Protect female spaces!  Unless a biological man wants to identify as a woman and enter them, no matter how intimate they are.  Believe all women!  Unless they're Israeli, in which case we 're going to need far more proof than firsthand accounts.  Protect minorities!  Unless they're in opposition to another minority that we consider higher on the scale of oppression, in which case we will go after you like a rabid dog.  We condemn violence against women!  Unless it's done by migrants or other minorities, in which case we will ignore it, excuse it or cover it up.  The attempted reframing of Hamas as "freedom fighters", which is far more odious than the previous mislabel of "militants".  

You see it at high levels of government, people desperately trying to equate the responses of the IDF to 10/07 with the actions of Hamas.  The "progressive left" is a cancer that real liberals need to excise from their ranks before they poison the entire left.  Then all we'll be stuck with an increasingly radical right, and increasingly radical left and a increasingly shrinking logical center.

[Luvnit2]

(12-06-2023, 12:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This conflict has done more than any other subject to show the moral bankruptcy of the "progressive" left.  Protect female spaces!  Unless a biological man wants to identify as a woman and enter them, no matter how intimate they are.  Believe all women!  Unless they're Israeli, in which case we 're going to need far more proof than firsthand accounts.  Protect minorities!  Unless they're in opposition to another minority that we consider higher on the scale of oppression, in which case we will go after you like a rabid dog.  We condemn violence against women!  Unless it's done by migrants or other minorities, in which case we will ignore it, excuse it or cover it up.  The attempted reframing of Hamas as "freedom fighters", which is far more odious than the previous mislabel of "militants".  

You see it at high levels of government, people desperately trying to equate the responses of the IDF to 10/07 with the actions of Hamas.  The "progressive left" is a cancer that real liberals need to excise from their ranks before they poison the entire left.  Then all we'll be stuck with an increasingly radical right, and increasingly radical left and a increasingly shrinking logical center.

It amazes me the far left women's groups have been mostly silent about the rapes of Israeli women. These same groups, one led by Allysa Milano went to D.C. to condemn a man accused of rape with no credible evidence. This group said ALL WOMEN SHOULD BE BELIEVED.

But I guess Israeli and Jewish woman get a different treatment. How do these groups deserve any voice or credibility in the future? They are frauds and everyone needs to call them out regardless of party.

[masonbengals fan]

It's certainly been eye opening.

[GMDino]

(12-06-2023, 12:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: This conflict has done more than any other subject to show the moral bankruptcy of the "progressive" left.  Protect female spaces!  Unless a biological man wants to identify as a woman and enter them, no matter how intimate they are.  Believe all women!  Unless they're Israeli, in which case we 're going to need far more proof than firsthand accounts.  Protect minorities!  Unless they're in opposition to another minority that we consider higher on the scale of oppression, in which case we will go after you like a rabid dog.  We condemn violence against women!  Unless it's done by migrants or other minorities, in which case we will ignore it, excuse it or cover it up.  The attempted reframing of Hamas as "freedom fighters", which is far more odious than the previous mislabel of "militants".  

You see it at high levels of government, people desperately trying to equate the responses of the IDF to 10/07 with the actions of Hamas.  The "progressive left" is a cancer that real liberals need to excise from their ranks before they poison the entire left.  Then all we'll be stuck with an increasingly radical right, and increasingly radical left and a increasingly shrinking logical center.

Horrible take.

But knowing it was only posted to get a rise of people it isn't to surprising.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-06-2023, 01:21 PM)GMDino Wrote: Horrible take.

But knowing it was only posted to get a rise of people it isn't to surprising.

It wasn't.  But I know why you'd want to dismiss it as such.

The fact you can't even begin to refute the points being made indicate you either know I'm right or you're part of the group I'm discussing.  I know finding out that people you consider part of your ideology are actually god awful people is probably a nasty shock.  Step one is realizing this, step two is starting to distance yourself from them.

[GMDino]

(12-06-2023, 03:15 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It wasn't.  But I know why you'd want to dismiss it as such.

The fact you can't even begin to refute the points being made indicate you either know I'm right or you're part of the group I'm discussing.  I know finding out that people you consider part of your ideology are actually god awful people is probably a nasty shock.  Step one is realizing this, step two is starting to distance yourself from them.

Your continuous attempts on these board to group anyone who doesn't walk in lock-step with you on this as being "god awful" don't deserve any kind of refuting.

You just show that you are what you claim to hate.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

It's not like Russia is treating Ukraine citizens any better. Not excusing or condoning any of this. I have a feeling having a far right maniacal monster in Netanyahu as the leader of Isreal is only flaming tensions.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(12-06-2023, 03:55 PM)GMDino Wrote: Your continuous attempts on these board to group anyone who doesn't walk in lock-step with you on this as being "god awful" don't deserve any kind of refuting.

You just show that you are what you claim to hate.

Boring and inaccurate.  I have a ton of respect for people here with very different points of view than me.  If you fall into any of the categories I described above, then yes, I would not view you as a person worthy of respect.  Again, you're utterly incapable of refuting the insanely hypocritical and contradictory view points of the "progressive" left.  All you have left is just trying to attack me.  You know I'm right, and it's uncomfortable.  You're in the same boat as people who claim to be patriots but support 01/06.  Like I said the first step is realizing it, not shooting the messenger.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-05-2023, 09:25 AM)Dill Wrote: I think everyone in this forum agrees that lying and rape are bad, whoever does them.
I know of no one here who wouldn't or hasn't already condemned Hamas.
But you write as if Hamas has its own special cheering section, people who find it "hard, if not impossible," to condemn it.

And you don't seem to have any plan for discussion, beyond leveraging "condemnation" to groups beyond Hamas, 
e.g., "far left" groups who defend universal human rights.    

White supremacists are using the current Hamas-Israel War to exploit racial tensions in the US, but their
target is also Muslims, which "the Jews" have supposedly brought into the country to replace us.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/us-world/article/nazi-antisemitism-israel-hamas-18476691.php
https://www.techtransparencyproject.org/articles/white-supremacists-on-x-premium-use-israel-hamas-conflict

So what sort of "anti-semitism" are you seeing on a daily basis, that is not coming from "white supremacists"? 
Perhaps you are stretching the term to include anyone who criticizes Israeli policy?  

I remember reading that in one of your statements,  you said they want statehood. But haven't the Palestinians been offered statehood more than once? 
I don't keep up with it all, but it's all sickening. And i'm very afraid Hamas is using the ceasefire to stock back up on missiles and resume once he can get the right response from Israel.

[Dill]

(12-05-2023, 12:00 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: They do, one need only look at Harvard or Penn state for examples.  Or the numerous protests with people repeating calls for genocide and labeling Hamas as "freedom fighters".
Oh, what groups would those be?
Yeah, bad people will do bad things.  You will though please excuse me for worrying far more about the group numbering tens of thousands over the group numbering tens.  Gaslighting us to focus on white supremacists so we ignore the rabid antisemitism on display at nearly every pro-Palestine rally isn't going to work.
Oh, you actually need examples?  Or is this more gaslighting?
Wow, just wow.  I think Millhouse had the right move here.  Take a long look in the mirror, dude.  

You are dodging a request for examples and a definition, per your norm, while accusing me of "gaslighting." 

The people exploiting this conflict to leverage divisions within US politics number far more than the tens.

And they start with defining all criticism of Israel's military occupation and bombing civilians in Gaza as "anti-semitism."

Clear definitions and specific examples are the basis of accurate analysis/assessment.  But the latter is not your goal here.

[Dill]

(12-06-2023, 06:16 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I remember reading that in one of your statements,  you said they want statehood. But haven't the Palestinians been offered statehood more than once? 
I don't keep up with it all, but it's all sickening. And i'm very afraid Hamas is using the ceasefire to stock back up on missiles and resume once he can get the right response from Israel.

No. Not if statehood means what means everywhere else--autonomy and sovereign control of one's own territory.

Oslo I and II supposedly were to start a phased reduction of Israeli control leading to limited but finally undefined statehood, in return for the PLO finally recognizing Israel's right to exist. A Palestinian Authority would receive phased increases in control of Gaza and the West Bank, the final level autonomy to be assessed after 5 years. Arafat took the gamble and recognized Israel.

But the Palestinians lost a partner when Rabin was assassinated in 1995 by a religious fanatic. Netanyahu followed him as premier in '96, and ramped up illegal settlements to create "facts on the ground" so the West Bank would never be turned over to the Palestinians as a whole. The Palestinian Authority was created and tasked with police powers--which it was required to use to protect Israel. And Netanyahu conditioned further moves to Palestinian statehood on PA prevention of attacks on Israel--while (secretly) supporting groups like Hamas to sabotage the PA's ability to do that, thus postponing statehood in perpetuity. By 2000, the beginning of the second Intifada, it was clear that a "Palestinian state" on the West Bank would be a small grouping of disconnected territories like Bantustans, separated from each other by walls and fortified Israeli settlements. 

So within the Palestinian community, it appears that the PLO's road to peace through recognition of Israel only brought more settlement, more theft of Palestinian land, and cooptation of the PLO to work security for Israel.  That's probably why Hamas intransigent message of no negotiation gathered resonance after Arafat's death in 2004.

The Israeli press has covered this breakdown of the peace process with much greater responsibility and accuracy than the US press, which uncritically repeats Israeli claims of Palestinian "intransigence" and rejection of peace.

PS I doubt if Hamas is able to "stock up" on missiles at the moment, though they may certainly re-organize their defenses. 

[Dill]

(12-06-2023, 04:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Boring and inaccurate.  I have a ton of respect for people here with very different points of view than me.  If you fall into any of the categories I described above, then yes, I would not view you as a person worthy of respect.  Again, you're utterly incapable of refuting the insanely hypocritical and contradictory view points of the "progressive" left.  All you have left is just trying to attack me.  You know I'm right, and it's uncomfortable.  You're in the same boat as people who claim to be patriots but support 01/06.  Like I said the first step is realizing it, not shooting the messenger.

No. You don't. 

No one in this forum is more disrespectful and verbally abusive of people "with very different points of view."

No one is more inclined to shoot the messenger or stink up threads with personal attack so no one responds anymore.

"Refuting" what you call "the insanely hypocritical and contradictory view points of the 'progressive' left" requires accurately specifying them first, rather than vaguely nodding towards Harvard and Penn State. It also requires accounting for your own selective outrage regarding violations of International Humanitarian Law. 

But you've always found that sort of careful, accurate and systematic treatment of issues "boring."  More exciting to morph a condemnation of Hamas into a platform for right wing critiques of feminism and Trans rights.