German recognition of Armentian genocide

[Belsnickel]

So for two years, from 1915 to 1917, there was what some say the first genocide of the 20th century. It was carried out by the Ottoman Empire against Armenians with an estimated death toll of 1.5 million people. Many countries have taken stances condemning this action over the decades. Three notable countries that have not have been the US, the UK, and Germany. Recently, however, Germany's Bundestag has voted to recognize the genocide as such. This is a huge deal because Germany's largest immigrant population is Turkish. Not only that, but the leaders of this push in the Bundestag are Turkish immigrants now living in Germany. Needless to say, it's turned ugly.

Quote: In actions that have sparked outrage in Germany, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has unleashed retaliatory statements against German parliamentarians with ethnic Turkish backgrounds. The reason? On Thursday, they voted, together with nearly all their colleagues in the Bundestag, for a resolution recognizing massing killings in Armenia in 1918 as genocide. In addition, the resolution admitted the “complicity” of the German Empire in the crimes of Turkey's predecessor state, the Ottoman Empire. Over 1.5 million Armenians died in the events approximately a century ago under the Ottoman Empire, but Turkey has steadfastly denied it was a genocide.

German members of parliament Özan Mutlu (Greens), Mahmut Özdemir (SPD), and Cemile Giousouf (CDU) have now had their Turkish identity called into question by Erdogan, who strictly rejects the crime being classified as genocide. Erdogan has now called for them to take a “blood test”, saying their Turkish identity should be checked as “their blood is impure”. Many of the MPs have also received death threats.

Turkish community: 'Outrageous and misplaced'

"We find death threats and blood tests abhorrent,” the national chairman of the Turkish Community, Gökay Sofuoglu, told the dpa press agency. “I thought that defining people by blood stopped in 1945. This is absolutely misplaced." Previously, Erdogan had also defamed the same parliamentarians as being mouthpieces of the banned Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), calling them “an extension of the terrorists in Germany”.

http://www.dw.com/en/erdogan-takes-aim-at-german-mps-on-armenia/a-19310660

Just some interesting goings on across the ocean. I also find our neutrality in this issue rather interesting.

[BmorePat87]

Germans know a lot about owning up to past mistakes and finding a way to make that part of their national identity. Learn from the past so that you can have a better tomorrow. Must be why so many Turkish Germans wanted this. It's been 100 years. Turkey can do the same.

[StLucieBengal]

Nice to see.

Armenian genocide was fueled by Muslims.

Given an overwhelming majority of the deaths were Christians.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-06-2016, 05:54 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Germans know a lot about owning up to past mistakes and finding a way to make that part of their national identity. Learn from the past so that you can have a better tomorrow. Must be why so many Turkish Germans wanted this. It's been 100 years. Turkey can do the same.

Turkey won't do this because they are led by Muslims.   There would be a chance for this to happen with secular leadership.  

[Nebuchadnezzar]

If Turkey were to acknowledge that the march to the sea and the murder of so many was genocide, it would be, not just a step but 10,000 steps towards a better relationship between the Nation of Islam and the rest of the world. I can't find the correct words, I hope you understand what I'm saying.

By Turkey, a Muslim nation which is more secular than all the others I believe, to come out and say that what happened was wrong and should never happen again, would bring Turkey even more support by the rest of the non Muslim world. Turkey and the people of Turkey would gain even more respect by me which may not seem like a lot but I'm positive there are others out there who would show respect like me.

As for the United States, I can see why we haven't acknowledged this as genocide since Turkey is in such a strategic place in the world and we have an airbase there...I think we do or used to anyway. Turkey is smack dab in the middle of pretty much everything. We can reach the Middle East, Europe and Western Asia with ease from Turkey.

As for the UK? Simply because of the US and the UK is our closest ally and friend in the world.

This is only my opinion

[StLucieBengal]

(06-06-2016, 06:39 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: If Turkey were to acknowledge that the march to the sea and the murder of so many was genocide, it would be, not just a step but 10,000 steps towards a better relationship between the Nation of Islam and the rest of the world. I can't find the correct words, I hope you understand what I'm saying.

By Turkey, a Muslim nation which is more secular than all the others I believe, to come out and say that what happened was wrong and should never happen again, would bring Turkey even more support by the rest of the non Muslim world. Turkey and the people of Turkey would gain even more respect by me which may not seem like a lot but I'm positive there are others out there who would show respect like me.

As for the United States, I can see why we haven't acknowledged this as genocide since Turkey is in such a strategic place in the world and we have an airbase there...I think we do or used to anyway. Turkey is smack dab in the middle of pretty much everything. We can reach the Middle East, Europe and Western Asia with ease from Turkey.

As for the UK? Simply because of the US and the UK is our closest ally and friend in the world.

This is only my opinion

Well said Neb.   Turkey won't do this because they don't want their Muslims trying to overthrow them unfortunately.     

Islam has a long way to go to distance itaelf from all the death and destruction it has brought to this world.

[Benton]

I have a hard time lumping the Armenian Genocide in with the Holocaust. The Armenians were killed, in part, because of the fear of allying with Russia. Something that, at the time, many countries were afraid of by a minority population. A decade or so after the series of genocides were happening, you had Russia's revolution of 1917 and we had our first Red Scare. We're somewhere around our third or fourth (16th on this board).

[GMDino]

(06-06-2016, 06:31 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:  Muslims.   

(06-06-2016, 06:33 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:  Muslims.

(06-06-2016, 07:01 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:  Muslims.     

Islam.

Anyway...just another government apologizing and showing how weak they are.

Right?

[StLucieBengal]

(06-06-2016, 07:53 PM)GMDino Wrote:

Anyway...just another government apologizing and showing how weak they are.

Right?

I guess you want to gloss over who was killing who lol.   

I'm sure you will try to blame the white christian, capitalist, or freedom soon enough.   

[GMDino]

(06-06-2016, 07:57 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I guess you want to gloss over who was killing who lol.   

I'm sure you will try to blame the white christian soon enough.   

When you're not here do you just write "Muslim" and "progressives" over and over again on a piece of paper?

[StLucieBengal]

(06-06-2016, 08:00 PM)GMDino Wrote: When you're not here do you just write "Muslim" and "progressives" over and over again on a piece of paper?

Your right.....  How dare I speak about the principle party responsible for mass genocide of Another group because they were Christians.   When the thread is about the actual incident.  

[GMDino]

(06-06-2016, 08:13 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Your right.....  How dare I speak about the principle party responsible for mass genocide of Another group because they were Christians.   When the thread is about the actual incident.  

No, just a general question.

I mean if you want to blame Christians for anything feel free.  They've killed a few people themselves.

[SunsetBengal]

(06-06-2016, 08:16 PM)GMDino Wrote: No, just a general question.

I mean if you want to blame Christians for anything feel free.  They've killed a few people themselves.

But, this thread is about a Muslim mass extermination of a Christian people.  If you want to start a thread about people killed by Christians, go right ahead.

[GMDino]

(06-06-2016, 08:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: But, this thread is about a Muslim mass extermination of a Christian people.  If you want to start a thread about people killed by Christians, go right ahead.

I don't.  Lucy brought it up as if I was going to.

No I'm reading how the Muslims did this.

I'm also amused that that is all he cares about.  Not the topic of the apology.  

[StLucieBengal]

(06-06-2016, 08:16 PM)GMDino Wrote: No, just a general question.

I mean if you want to blame Christians for anything feel free.  They've killed a few people themselves.

Sure when there is a thread based on a topic that Christians are to blame then by all means I will be there to post.     What's funny is that you actually think I am some defend everything that Christians do or have ever done guy.  

[Belsnickel]

(06-06-2016, 07:14 PM)Benton Wrote: I have a hard time lumping the Armenian Genocide in with the Holocaust. The Armenians were killed, in part, because of the fear of allying with Russia. Something that, at the time, many countries were afraid of by a minority population. A decade or so after the series of genocides were happening, you had Russia's revolution of 1917 and we had our first Red Scare. We're somewhere around our third or fourth (16th on this board).

I don't have a hard time of it. I mean, Hitler had his justifications for what he did, and it was protecting his people, his nation. Everyone has reasons for doing the heinous things they do, but it doesn't make them any less heinous.

[GMDino]

(06-06-2016, 08:25 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Sure when there is a thread based on a topic that Christians are to blame then by all means I will be there to post.     What's funny is that you actually think I am some defend everything that Christians do or have ever done guy.  

No...I think you have a Muslim tic.

[StLucieBengal]

(06-06-2016, 08:28 PM)GMDino Wrote: No...I think you have a Muslim tic.

Or maybe just that these topics are the news of the day and it's usually Muslims at fault.   

[Millhouse]

(06-06-2016, 07:14 PM)Benton Wrote: I have a hard time lumping the Armenian Genocide in with the Holocaust. The Armenians were killed, in part, because of the fear of allying with Russia. Something that, at the time, many countries were afraid of by a minority population. A decade or so after the series of genocides were happening, you had Russia's revolution of 1917 and we had our first Red Scare. We're somewhere around our third or fourth (16th on this board).

Genocide is genocide. But I do agree with your sentiment because the Nazi's 'final solution' took genocide to an extreme calculated level never seen before nor after. 

[GMDino]

(06-06-2016, 08:30 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Or maybe just that these topics are the news of the day and it's usually Muslims at fault.   

The Muslims are at fault for apologizing?