Government Shutdown 2015

[Belsnickel]

(09-24-2015, 12:49 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I know your also concerned about the size of the fed gov.  That's why I don't understand the uproar by the media and general public over the shutdown.   It should be the starting point .  If this 15% isnt essential then let them go.     If that means the fed can't manage parks then let the state's  take over that responsibility.    

Personally I would like to see a 25% haircut.   That would put us on the right track.

GOP should shut it down then go to the people and explain why we don't need the 15%. Change the media narrative. No one wants wasted money.

The uproar is because there are public-facing segments that are impacted. Aside from that, the furlough that occurs leaves many people jobless. Some get back pay (the direct federal employees are usually covered by this) but the government contract workers affected don't receive pay for that period. There is a lot of financial hardship that comes about from these things. Living in Virginia, our state budget is impacted by government shutdowns. We faced a budget shortfall in part because of the lost revenue from taxes paid by federal workers and contractors.

I'm for reducing the size of the federal government, but it has to be done in measured steps with research done on the feasibility of shifting burdens and the potential issues related to eliminating certain offices. If it is not done in a stepped-down way then it will throw our country into another recession.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-24-2015, 12:58 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The uproar is because there are public-facing segments that are impacted. Aside from that, the furlough that occurs leaves many people jobless. Some get back pay (the direct federal employees are usually covered by this) but the government contract workers affected don't receive pay for that period. There is a lot of financial hardship that comes about from these things. Living in Virginia, our state budget is impacted by government shutdowns. We faced a budget shortfall in part because of the lost revenue from taxes paid by federal workers and contractors.

I'm for reducing the size of the federal government, but it has to be done in measured steps with research done on the feasibility of shifting burdens and the potential issues related to eliminating certain offices. If it is not done in a stepped-down way then it will throw our country into another recession.

The area around DC has the highest wealth. They can afford to find other jobs. 15% of the gov isn't that much and no one would feel a difference except for that area with massive wealth.

[*bfine32*]

(09-24-2015, 12:49 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I know your also concerned about the size of the fed gov.  That's why I don't understand the uproar by the media and general public over the shutdown.   It should be the starting point .  If this 15% isnt essential then let them go.     If that means the fed can't manage parks then let the state's  take over that responsibility.    

Personally I would like to see a 25% haircut.   That would put us on the right track.

GOP should shut it down then go to the people and explain why we don't need the 15%.   Change the media narrative.   No one wants wasted money.

There is already a 25% cut underway in Major Commands. Also government employees have been subjected to furloughs (had to take one day a week off without pay) and shutdowns. Even as a federal Employee I too look to reduce government spending; however, shutting down the government is not the prudent answer.

I am one of the lucky ones. I have supplemental income; however, for many this is their only form of income and they cannot apply for unemployment while out of work.

[Mike M (the other one)]

I voted no, but I wouldn't mind seeing the government size in general reduced.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-24-2015, 01:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: There is already a 25% cut underway in Major Commands. Also government employees have been subjected to furloughs (had to take one day a week off without pay) and shutdowns. Even as a federal Employee I too look to reduce government spending; however, shutting down the government is not the prudent answer.

I am one of the lucky ones. I have supplemental income; however, for many this is their only form of income and they cannot apply for unemployment while out of work.

Asking soldiers to take the hit is not cool.  There are plenty of paper pushers who can take this hit.  

Glad you made it ok.

Just like when a school district cuts positions, they always cut teachers. How about cutting some admins.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-24-2015, 02:28 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I voted no, but I wouldn't mind seeing the government size in general reduced.

Unfortunately this is the only way we can. Too bad they all get back pay when reinstated. Lol.

There is no shutdown. It's all a shell game

[Belsnickel]

(09-24-2015, 01:26 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The area around DC has the highest wealth. They can afford to find other jobs. 15% of the gov isn't that much and no one would feel a difference except for that area with massive wealth.

What you're not realizing is that even in those NoVA areas, the low income individuals rely on those government workers doing their thing. Say you work in food service or hospitality in the area. A government shutdown means a drastic reduction in customers. The ripple effect felt from something like this reaches far and wide.

[GMDino]

(09-24-2015, 03:23 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: What you're not realizing is that even in those NoVA areas, the low income individuals rely on those government workers doing their thing. Say you work in food service or hospitality in the area. A government shutdown means a drastic reduction in customers. The ripple effect felt from something like this reaches far and wide.

Ah...trickle down.  

[StLucieBengal]

(09-24-2015, 03:23 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: What you're not realizing is that even in those NoVA areas, the low income individuals rely on those government workers doing their thing. Say you work in food service or hospitality in the area. A government shutdown means a drastic reduction in customers. The ripple effect felt from something like this reaches far and wide.

The ripple wouldn't be quite as drastic as you make it out. But those people would find other jobs . They aren't going stop working, and not going to stop eating out.

[Belsnickel]

(09-24-2015, 03:43 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The ripple wouldn't be quite as drastic as you make it out. But those people would find other jobs . They aren't going stop working, and not going to stop eating out.

Knowing plenty of people in the 703 and 757 areas, where federal employment is high, I can say I wish it wasn't as drastic as I make it seem. It's just one of those things most people don't know about unless they see it or those that is impacts.

[Interceptor]

If Trump gets voted in, he will fire all of them.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-24-2015, 04:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Knowing plenty of people in the 703 and 757 areas, where federal employment is high, I can say I wish it wasn't as drastic as I make it seem. It's just one of those things most people don't know about unless they see it or those that is impacts.

I'm willing to roll the dice for the economy in two area Codes for the betterment of the nation.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

The worst thing about those dorks shutting shit down is that the National Parks go down first.

[Belsnickel]

(09-24-2015, 07:09 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I'm willing to roll the dice for the economy in two area Codes for the betterment of the nation.

It's more than two around the country. Those are just the most reliant here in Virginia.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-25-2015, 12:15 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: The worst thing about those dorks shutting shit down is that the National Parks go down first.

Yes it's petty. Those should be ran by the state's anyway. The worst is when they put up the barricades to block the WW2 honor flight groups who came to DC. That and closing a road to so people couldn't see Mount Rushmore from their car. Which ironically closed a bed and breakfast.

[GMDino]

(09-25-2015, 07:39 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yes it's petty.   Those should be ran by the state's anyway.    The worst is when they put up the barricades to block the WW2 honor flight groups who came to DC.   That and closing a road to so people couldn't see Mount Rushmore from their car.   Which ironically closed a bed and breakfast.

[StLucieBengal]

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2013/10/05/list-obama-closures-for-shutdown/

Let's not forget what obama chooses to shut down.   Anything that helps soldiers or vets, parks, fishing and wildlife industry, cancer treatments for kids, and stopping the ability of the soldiers to worship.

Quote:1. Treatments for Children Suffering From Cancer – The GOP have agreed to a compromise by funding part of the government, including the National Institutes of Health, which offers children with cancer last-chance experimental treatment. Obama has threatened to veto this funding.

2. The World War II Memorial – The WWII memorial on the DC Mall is a 24/7 open-air memorial that is not regularly staffed. Although the White House must have known that WWII veterans in their eighties and nineties had already booked flights to visit this memorial, the White House still found the resources to spitefully barricade the attraction.

The Republican National Committee has offered to cover any costs required to keep the memorial open. The White House refused. Moreover, like the NIH, the GOP will pass a compromise bill that would fund America’s national parks. Obama has threatened to veto that bill.

3. Furloughed Military Chaplains Not Allowed to Work for Free - Furloughed military chaplains willing to celebrate Mass and baptisms for free have been told they will be punished for doing so.

4. Business Stops In Florida Keys – Although the GOP have agreed to compromise in the ongoing budget stalemate and fund the parks, Obama has threatened to veto that funding. As a result, small businesses, hunters, and commercial fisherman can’t practice their trade. While the feds have deemed the personnel necessary to keep this area open “non-essential,” the “enforcement officers” to ensure no business is done are “essential.”

5. Obama Blacks Out Sports, Entertainment Programming to Overseas Troops – The American Forces Network (AFN) that provides American sports and entertainment programming to our troops stationed abroad, has been shut down. For some reason, though, AFN News will still broadcast news, just not any of the popular and fun stuff.

Camp David is essential, but popular programming for heroes overseas is non-essential.

6. Obama Closes D-Day Memorial – The GOP have offered to compromise and fund the National Parks. Obama has said he will veto this compromise legislation. As a result, along with 24 other military cemeteries, the D-Day memorial in Normandy has been barricaded.

7. Obama Tries to Close Privately-Funded Mt. Vernon – Although George Washington’s Mt. Vernon estate is privately funded, the feds blocked visitors from entering the parking area because the Park Service maintains the lot. Apparently, the New Media publicity resulted in the feds backing down.

8. Obama Closes Over 100 Privately-Managed Parks That Cost No Money to Run –  The U.S. Treasury actually makes money from the rent paid by a private company that “employs about 400-500 camp workers and managers across about a dozen states.” No federal money is used to operate these parks. No federal employees are used to staff these parks. Taxpayers make a profit from these parks. Still, Obama had them closed and as a result 400-500 employees and a private business are taking it in the neck.

9. Obama Closes Self-Sustaining Colonial Farm It Hasn’t Supported Since 1980 – “For the first time in 40 years, the National Park Service (NPS) has finally succeeded in closing the Farm down to the public. In previous budget dramas, the Farm has always been exempted since the NPS provides no staff or resources to operate the Farm.”

10. Obama Tries to Close State-Run Parks in Wisconsin – “The park service ordered state officials to close the northern unit of the Kettle Moraine, Devil’s Lake, and Interstate state parks and the state-owned portion of the Horicon Marsh, but state authorities rebuffed the request because the lion’s share of the funding came from state, not federal coffers.”

11. Obama Closes Vietnam Memorial – The GOP have passed compromise legislation that would fund national memorials and parks, and open them to the public. Obama threatened a veto. Apparently, the “essential” government employees are those erecting barricades, not those who could keep the memorial open.

12. Obama Closes Privately-Owned Hotel, Police Block Parking Lot – “The operator of a 51-room inn located on U.S. government-owned land in North Carolina abandoned his defiant stance on Thursday to keep the property open despite being ordered to close as part of the federal government shutdown.”

October is this inn’s prime season. The GOP have offered compromise funding opening the parks. Obama said he will veto that compromise.

State troopers blocked customers from entering the inn’s parking lot.

13. Park Service Ranger: ‘We’ve Been Told to Make Life As Difficult For People As We Can’ – “It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation,” an angry Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

14. Obama Forces Residents Out of Private Homes – “The government shutdown is being felt close to home for some locals. They say they’re being forced out of private homes on Lake Mead because they sit on federal land.”

The GOP have agreed to fund the parks. Obama has threatened a veto.

15. Acadia Park In Maine Shut Down – ‘”We’ve been training for two years at CrossFit for this hike — no kidding,” Hart said. She added that the shutdown should be as inconvenient for the Washington politicians who caused it as it is for average citizens.’

The GOP have agreed to fund the parks. Obama said he will veto.

16. Historic Restaurant Open During Last Shutdown Forced to Close – “An iconic Philadelphia restaurant has been forced to close its doors and turn away booked parties because of the government shutdown. …

“Restaurant public relations director Molly Yun said they were notified there was a possibility a closure might happen, but they were allowed to remain open during the last government shutdown 17 years ago.”

The restaurant is part of the federal park system, which the GOP have agreed to fund. Obama said he will veto the funding.

17. Obama Shuts Down a Road Tha Goes Through CO Park: “The Forest Service announcement, in turn, led the Pitkin County commissioners to order that Maroon Creek Road be shut down at the height of the colorful leaf-changing season. Ahead of what is to be one of the busiest weekends of the fall, the road is to be closed to vehicles at T-Lazy-7 Ranch, pending a resolution to the government shutdown.”

The GOP have agreed to fund the parks. Obama said he will veto that compromise funding.

18. Residents Plan Protest of Cape Hatteras Closing - “Businesses and residents on the Outer Banks have planned a peaceful protest of the closure of Hatteras Island’s beaches due to the government shut down.

“The U.S. House Wednesday passed a measure to reopen national parks and monuments. It will now go to the U.S. Senate.”

In the unlikely event the Democrat Senate passes the bill, Obama has threatened a veto of any compromise legislation opening the parks.

19. Obama Blocks People From LOOKING at Mt. Rushmore – “Blocking access to trails and programs at South Dakota’s most popular attraction was one thing, but state officials didn’t expect Congress’ budget stalemate to shut down a view of Mount Rushmore.

“The National Park Service placed cones along highway viewing areas outside Mount Rushmore this week, barring visitors from pulling over and taking pictures of the famed monument.

The cones first went up Oct. 1, said Dusty Johnson, Gov. Dennis Daugaard’s chief of staff. The state asked that they be taken down, and federal officials did so with some of them. The state was told the cones were a safety precaution to help channel cars into viewing areas rather than to bar their entrance.”

20. Crucial USDA Websites Taken Down – “The U.S. Department of Agriculture has turned off its entire website in response to the government shutdown, leaving farmers, reporters and others with no way to access any of the agency’s information online. …

“USDA’s total website shutdown goes far beyond the response of other federal agencies, and seems to be part of an effort to make people feel the effects of the shutdown. Thursday morning calls to USDA’s press office seeking an explanation were not answered.”

This website is down and yet the ObamaCare and White House websites are up.

21. St. Louis Gateway Arch Closed – The GOP have agreed to compromise legislation funding the parks. Obama has threatened a veto.

22. Park Shutdown Bounces Rowers from Potomac – “The ripple effect of a government shutdown has pushed rowers from the Potomac River.

“Multiple high schools rent space at the Thompson Boat Center in Georgetown. But like other places controlled by the National Park Service, it closed Tuesday morning.”

The GOP have agreed to compromise funding opening the parks. Obama has threatened a veto.

23. Thompson Boat Center Closed In DC – The GOP have agreed to fund the parks. Obama said he will veto.

24. Obama Closes Military Commissary – “Military members, veterans and families who shop at local tax-free store are shocked to discover the store’s doors locked; no progress to end stalemate in Washington.”

While the government has deemed the White House chefs “essential,” working class military personnel have lost their tax-free store privileges.

Military personnel and their families tell me that they have never lost these privileges in previous shutdowns.

25. Arizona Offers to Fund Grand Canyon, Obama Says ‘Drop Dead’ - “Obama has ordered the Grand Canyon to stay closed, even after the state of Arizona and local businesses have offered to cover the costs necessary to keep it open. In other words, the shutdown isn’t about the money — it’s about hurting the American people just because he can.”

26. Amber Alert Website Taken Offline - CNN reported that bad press was a factor in the site going back up.

Why would White House chefs and Obama’s golf course be categorized as “essential,” while the government classified as “non-essential” the Amber Alert website?

Of course, this is the same Obama threatening to veto cancer treatments for children.

27. Miramar Air Show Canceled With One-Day Notice -“The emotional and economic impacts of losing this year’s event are great, and I’m extremely disappointed in the political dysfunction that brought us to this point,” Gloria said.

“Proceeds from the event go to programs that support families of military personnel, he said.”

28. At Start of Peak Season, Shutdown Closes Peaks of Otter Lodge - “Although the Blue Ridge Parkway remains open to travelers, the Peaks of Otter Lodge cannot stay open while the National Park Service is not operating during to the government shutdown. With no Congressional compromise reached by the end of the day Monday, the lodge’s restaurant shut down and guests were given 48 hours to find somewhere else to stay.”

The GOP have agreed to compromise and fund the parks. Obama has threatened a veto.

29. Federal Prison Guards Not Getting Paid, Inmates Are – “Most of the employees at the federal prison in Forrest City are working without knowing when they will get a paycheck because of the government shutdown, but some of the inmates who get paid for the work they do inside will have no problem collecting their money.”

30. Family that Paid $2,000 for Permit Not Allowed to Raft - “Sorry for the inconvenience,” it read.

That’s when rangers told them they wouldn’t be able to put in on the river the next day, despite having paid $2,000 for a permit to do so.

The news was shattering, Scott Lee said.

The GOP have agreed to fund the parks. Obama has threatened a veto.

31. Although Privately Funded, Historic Ford’s Theater Closed – “Ford’s Theatre, which is a private non-profit 501©(3) organization, does not use any federal funding or federal employees for its performances. During previous government shutdowns, the theatre has continued performances.”

32. King Crab Season Threatened by Government Shutdown – “The Alaska king crab season is set to start soon, but all the fishing boats will have to stay docked because the government must sign off on permits and quotas.

Obama’s golf course is open. So is the website for Michelle Obama’s “Let’s Move.”

33. Children Might Lose School Lunches – “Minnesotans are adjusting to the partial government shutdown, but if it lingers too long, there is a chance the 300,000 kids who rely on free or reduced lunches at school could go hungry.”

The White House chefs have not been furloughed.

34. Feds Shut Down Major Roadway, Puts Children’s Lives at Risk - “Nearly a third of Blount County is inside the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. So when the federal government shut down the park, it also shut down one of the area’s chief sources of revenue.

“The children live in the eastern Tennessee community of Top of the World – serviced by School Bus 49. Normally, the bus travels along the Foothills Parkway. Other roads leading to the isolated mountain community are impassible by bus.

“”It’s dangerous,” said Nancy Kemp, the spokesperson for Blount County Schools.”It’s very curvy and straight up the mountain. It’s just not a safe route.””

The GOP have offered compromise legislation funding the parks. Obama has threatened a veto.

35. Road to Brasstown Bald Closed During Peak Season – “It’s not unusual for the road to the top of Brasstown Bald, the highest point in Georgia, to be closed in the winter months but in early October, with “leaf-looking” season just around the corner?

“The Georgia Department of Transporation (GDOT) announced Monday, though, that it is, in fact, closed. Why? At the request of the U.S. Forest Service and because of the government shutdown. The forest service operates the facilities on top of the mountain as well as the visitors center at its base.”

The GOP have offered compromise legislation to open the parks. Obama has threatened a veto.

36. Columbia Island and Washington Sailing Marina Closed – Email from reader: “My husband received an email from WSM saying that boat owners could only go to their boats to remove items. If they leave the slip with their boat they are not allowed to return to their (paid for) slip the government re opens.”

37. IRS Collections Operational, Taxpayer Advocate Office Closed – Per an email from reader.

38. Eleven Hundred Square Miles of Florida Ocean Closed – Email: “You omitted the ban on Florida charter boat captains taking fishermen into an 1,100 square mile section of ocean of the coast of Tampa. Apparently, government resources patrol it.”

39. Iwo Jima Memorial Closed, Barricades Erected – “Another open-air memorial in the Washington area is closed and barricaded off: the Iwo Jima Memorial, just across the bridge from D.C. in Rosslyn, Virginia. A source sends along this picture of the barricade set-up at the memorial, which is also called the U.S. Marine Corps War Memorial.”

40. Police Remove Vietnam War Veterans at Memorial Wall – “Via William Jacobson, NBC’s affiliate in Washington, D.C. reports that police ordered tourists and Vietnam war veterans who were visiting the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall to leave the memorial at one point on Friday.”

41. Shutdown Denies Death Benefits to Families of Fallen Soldiers – “The families of five U.S. service members who were killed over the weekend in Afghanistan have been notified that they won’t be receiving the $100,000 benefit normally wired to relatives within 36 hours of the death. The “death gratuity” is intended to help cover funeral costs and help with immediate living expenses until survivor benefits typically begin.”

42. Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown – “Some Catholic priests under contract or GS (general schedule) to the military are not allowed to offer the Catholic sacraments–including saying Mass, consecrating marriages, or performing baptisms–on military property during the government shutdown, and if they do, even on a volunteer basis, they risk being arrested, according to the general counsel for the Archdiocese for the Military Services, USA.”

Meanwhile, the White House chefs, Obama’s golf course, and the First Lady’s “Let’s Move” program remain essential.

43.  Priest: Obama Admin. Denied Mass to Catholics – “Apparently, a priest was denied access to a military chapel this weekend. Father Ray Leonard serves at Naval Submarine Base Kings Bay in Georgia but because of the government shutdown, he wasn’t allowed to go to celebrate Mass this past weekend.

“He is contracted by the Defense Department to meet the spiritual needs of Catholics, but not now. The chapel doors were locked and the sign said, “Shutdown: No Catholic service till further notice.””

44. Yellowstone: Tourists Locked In Hotel Under Armed Guard Thought They Were Under Arrest -

45. Man Jogging in National Park Fined $100 – “A Pennsylvania man who went jogging in a national historic park was slapped with a $100 fine because the area was closed due to Washington’s budget impasse, he said Tuesday.”

46. Private Restaurant Owners Defy Govt. Shutdown Order, Fed Drop Hammer - “After a two-day return, the Cliff House will be forced to close again on Wednesday, and according to the restaurant, will remain closed for the duration of the shutdown.”

47. NIH Stops Therapy Dogs from Visiting Sick Children – “It should be noted that on the list of the top 1000 salaries in the federal government in 2011, 23 of the top 28 were officials at the National Institutes of Health; all made over $290,000 per year.”

[Benton]

(09-25-2015, 12:15 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: The worst thing about those dorks shutting shit down is that the National Parks go down first.

Agreed.

(09-25-2015, 07:39 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yes it's petty.   Those should be ran by the state's anyway.   

They can't. Many national recreation areas cover multiple states. It's not realistic for two, three, or four states sharing the same park to all agree on how to manage it. Plus, it would be a nightmare for guests. I live next to LBL, which is in Kentucky and Tennessee. If I'm using it for hunting or camping and pay my Kentucky fee, but Tennessee has a separate higher fee, then when I cross the invisible line I woould have to go find their people and pay again.

[StLucieBengal]

(09-25-2015, 11:28 AM)Benton Wrote: Agreed.


They can't. Many national recreation areas cover multiple states. It's not realistic for two, three, or four states sharing the same park to all agree on how to manage it. Plus, it would be a nightmare for guests. I live next to LBL, which is in Kentucky and Tennessee. If I'm using it for hunting or camping and pay my Kentucky fee, but Tennessee has a separate higher fee, then when I cross the invisible line I woould have to go find their people and pay again.

Don't you need a kentucky fishing license to fish the Ohio River? These are easy fixes. It's not a bad thing to promote border states working together.

[Benton]

(09-25-2015, 02:11 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Don't you need a kentucky fishing license to fish the Ohio River?   These are easy fixes.    It's not a bad thing to promote border states working together.

Just because it's called the Ohio River doesn't mean you have to have an Ohio fishing license.



I'm not a fisherman, but generally, the states recognize each other's fishing license. IE, if a game officer in Kentucky "pulls over" a boat on the water and the guy has an Indiana or Illinois license, they accept it. Fishing limits vary by state. If your state only allows harvesting of 20 bass, and you come to shore with 25, you broke the state law. If you dock across the river where the limit is 26, then you're ok.

And rivers fall under federal regulation as waterways. They're already regulated at the federal level for their effect on commerce. They're also (supposedly) under guidance by the EPA for entities dumping legal waste. Those sorts of oversights don't exist for prairies and large tracks of trees... unless they fall under the Forest Service or BLM. Which puts you back in federal.

I'm wasting my time here, but I'll try and give you an example. If Kentucky doesn't like having the Ohio, they can't drain it. It's a federal waterway. If they want to put a dam on it and generate electricity, they have to check with the Corps and EPA because of the impact it'll have on the environment and rest of the river. It's federally regulated. With what you're proposing, with the 140,000 acres of trees in the LBL, if Kentucky decided it didn't want to manage it's share, they could just clear cut 90,000ish acres all the way to the Tennessee line... and Tennessee would have no say in it, even though it would impact their tourism and environment.

I don't like a bigger fed, but some states are just overpopulated with dumbness.