Harrison Butker | Commencement Address 2024

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-15-2024, 10:33 AM)Dill Wrote: So I lied about not remembering? You've decided the guy who defends women's rights didn't alter a marriage vow as you expected, regardless of what he says?  Not clear how any of this relates to what Butker said or intended. It just seems you are fishing for a way to disparage my character, like that would make my text-based argument somehow wrong. Speculating about whether and how I value immigrant kids fits that category as well.

To repeat, it's not my "perception" that he directed his remark about diabolical lies to the "ladies." 

It is also not my "perception" that after prioritizing marriage and children for women, he next addressed men, saying their job
was to go out into the world and restore order.

And I don't believe you "perceive" words other than the ones quoted. You DECIDED that Butker meant "people" even though he said "women."
Just as when he sets different roles for men and women, you DECIDED he really just means "family first." 

My "perception" fits the words as written; yours fits the words you substituted for his.

I responded to your DM Link about women giving up careers and returning home. That is acknowledging that women do give up careers to become housewives. So why do you say the "the sad part is, you fail to acknowledge that there are TONS of women that have successful careers that CHOSE to stop working . ."? What evidence is there that I don't acknowledge that? And how does that refute or affect my claim that Butker was advocating for traditional gender roles which undermine women's equality?

I don't need to do anything to "disparage" your character, you kinda wishy washy on some subjects. Avoiding direct questions by answering with another question. 
To me, you are some sort of Lefty Idealist, Is your perfect world a Utopian Society? 

Well you seem to be pushing some diabolical lies, maybe that's what he's talking about. 


No, I think many women look forward to getting married and having kids, educated or not, but not All can be stay at home moms or want to be that. 


Now again before you forget, In your perfect world, it is a Utopian Society? 

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-15-2024, 05:12 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I don't need to do anything to "disparage" your character, you kinda wishy washy on some subjects. Avoiding direct questions by answering with another question. 
To me, you are some sort of Lefty Idealist, Is your perfect world a Utopian Society? 

Well you seem to be pushing some diabolical lies, maybe that's what he's talking about. 


No, I think many women look forward to getting married and having kids, educated or not, but not All can be stay at home moms or want to be that. 


Now again before you forget, In your perfect world, it is a Utopian Society? 

It is his agenda.

Reference real life.

Many women do not have issue with his speech, nor do more normal people, only the extremes.

The extreme left, those are the ones complaining, and merit ignoring.

[Dill]

(06-15-2024, 05:12 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I don't need to do anything to "disparage" your character, you kinda wishy washy on some subjects. Avoiding direct questions by answering with another question. 
To me, you are some sort of Lefty Idealist, Is your perfect world a Utopian Society? 
Well you seem to be pushing some diabolical lies, maybe that's what he's talking about. 
No, I think many women look forward to getting married and having kids, educated or not, but not All can be stay at home moms or want to be that. 
Now again before you forget, In your perfect world, it is a Utopian Society? 

This talk about my wishy washyness and avoidance of direct questions and "utopia"

avoids the points I made in my post.

To get to your interpretation of Butker, you have to replace "ladies" with "people." 
To get to my interpretation, you leave the words as originally spoken.

Our disagreement just repeats those moments in the history of women's rights when one side ("leftists")
advocate for the vote or equal pay or inclusion in the military, and the other side argued that most
women didn't want that and women are "naturally" happier in the home--i.e., that inequality is "natural."

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-16-2024, 11:12 AM)Dill Wrote: This talk about my wishy washyness and avoidance of direct questions and "utopia"

avoids the points I made in my post.

To get to your interpretation of Butker, you have to replace "ladies" with "people." 
To get to my interpretation, you leave the words as originally spoken.

Our disagreement just repeats those moments in the history of women's rights when one side ("leftists")
advocate for the vote or equal pay or inclusion in the military, and the other side argued that most
women didn't want that and women are "naturally" happier in the home--i.e., that inequality is "natural."

What point? Perception vs Perception? That's long been covered. 

Seems strange that their is an awful lot of women out there that don't have an issue with his Speech. I would think if women had an issue,, they'd be alot more all over it. 

but you did do exactly as i said. 
Let's try again: Do you believe in a genderless Utopian Society?

[Dill]

(06-16-2024, 01:44 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: What point? Perception vs Perception? That's long been covered. 
Seems strange that their is an awful lot of women out there that don't have an issue with his Speech. I would think if women had an issue,, they'd be alot more all over it. 
but you did do exactly as i said. 

I covered it. I explained it is not my "perception" that Butker said "ladies" have been told diabolical lies.

You've decided NOT to go by what he actually said, substituting "people" for "ladies" to deny that he
is supporting inequality. Apparently you do too, with an "open mind." 

Why should it be "strange" there are women who agree with his speech?  "Women" are not a monolith. 
Plenty have opposed their own equality.

How are you counting them? How many women in the US even know about the speech? 

(06-16-2024, 01:44 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Let's try again: Do you believe in a genderless Utopian Society?

That's as easy as it is beside the point--no, I don't believe in a "genderless Utoplian society,"

whatever that means. The only thing interesting to me is why you are off topic demanding answers
on what sort of society I "believe" in?  Should be clear by now that it is one based on gender equality.
That's not the same as genderless. 

I would be mirroring your question if I asked you "believe" in a traditional society in which women
cannot careers outside the home, like the Handmaind's Tale. 

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-16-2024, 06:47 PM)Dill Wrote: I covered it. I explained it is not my "perception" that Butker said "ladies" have been told diabolical lies.

You've decided NOT to go by what he actually said, substituting "people" for "ladies" to deny that he
is supporting inequality. Apparently you do too, with an "open mind." 

Why should it be "strange" there are women who agree with his speech?  "Women" are not a monolith. 
Plenty have opposed their own equality.

How are you counting them? How many women in the US even know about the speech? 


That's as easy as it is beside the point--no, I don't believe in a "genderless Utoplian society,"

whatever that means. The only thing interesting to me is why you are off topic demanding answers
on what sort of society I "believe" in?  Should be clear by now that it is one based on gender equality.
That's not the same as genderless. 

I would be mirroring your question if I asked you "believe" in a traditional society in which women
cannot careers outside the home, like the Handmaind's Tale. 

Silliness!