Thread Rating:
  • 3 Vote(s) - 3.67 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Harrison Butker | Commencement Address 2024
#1
I'm reposting this from the Alito thread because it should have it's own discussion, IMHO.

And that thread needs to get back on track.

Mellow

I'm glad this topic got away from the silly notion that a SCJ would be so biased he would fly his US flag upside down during and after January 6th!


On to the important stuff about what a kicker said at a graduation speech!

Couple personal notes:

1) He's speaking at a Catholic school so I understand the context of his speech.
2) It took all of three paragraphs to get political and accuse Biden of not being a real Catholic.
3) The line about "my teammates girlfriend" seems derisive in the text w/o hearing the tone of voice.  Watching the video at least he smirks?
4) He makes mention about making sure people receive the sacraments even during the worst times...ignoring that some of those worst times were caused  by or ignored completely by the Catholic church.
5) I'm really not sure about this line: "I am certain the reporters at the AP could not have imagined that their attempt to rebuke and embarrass places and people like those here at Benedictine wouldn't be met with anger..." I never heard of this school before he spoke there.
6) I bolded the section where speaks to the higher calling of being a mother and wife vs a career.  Given where he was speaking I imagine more than a few are thinking about such things. 
6a) His line about his wife not realizing HER dreams of a career but that "her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother." sounds bad, to me.  I understand his praise of her supporting HIM as he lives HIS dreams though too.  
7) He also talks about men being home and part of the family.  Good point.
7a) Then he leans in and implies men must be the leaders of all things.  Eh.  


The rest is about proselytizing and making sure the graduates stay where they are welcome and continue their faith...which is the opposite of proselytizing if you ask me, but it was his speech, not mine.


Overall I get the people who were not happy about what he said.  Given the venue and audience, and what I now know about his own faith, it was him being honest.

He thinks change, even away from the Latin Mass, is bad and is destroying society.  As a born and raised Catholic who also attended a Benedictine Liberal Arts college I know these people and I disagree with him.

No one has to agree.  Many don't.




Here's the transcript:

https://www.ncregister.com/news/harrison-butker-speech-at-benedictine


Quote:Full Text: Harrison Butker of Kansas City Chiefs Graduation Speech


The Super Bowl champ and kicker spoke about the dignity of life, masculinity, and the most important role of all: motherhood.
[Image: 2024051609058_809f63d43d89b038bc8120b683...9d27bb.jpg]Kansas City Chiefs’ placekicker Harrison Butker speaks to college graduates in his commencement address at Benedictine College on May 11. (photo: Benedictine College)
Register StaffNationMay 16, 2024


Editor’s Note: Harrison Butker, 28, the placekicker for the Kansas City Chiefs of the National Football League, delivered the commencement address at Benedictine College in Atchison, Kansas, on Saturday, May 11, 2024. A transcript of his remarks is below.
 
Ladies and gentlemen of the Class of 2024:  I would like to start off by congratulating all of you for successfully making it to this achievement today. I'm sure your high school graduation was not what you had imagined, and most likely, neither was your first couple years of college.



By making it to this moment through all the adversity thrown your way from COVID, I hope you learned the important lessons that suffering in this life is only temporary. As a group, you witnessed firsthand how bad leaders who don't stay in their lane can have a negative impact on society. It is through this lens that I want to take stock of how we got to where we are, and where we want to go as citizens and, yes, as Catholics. One last thing before I begin, I want to be sure to thank President Minnis and the board for their invitation to speak.

When President Minnis first reached out a couple of months ago, I had originally said No. You see, last year I gave the commencement address at my alma mater, Georgia Tech, and I felt that one graduation speech was more than enough, especially for someone who isn't a professional speaker. But of course, President Minnis used his gift of persuasion. [Laughter] It spoke to the many challenges you all faced throughout the COVID fiasco ,and how you missed out on so many milestones the rest of us older people have taken for granted. 

While COVID might have played a large role throughout your formative years, it is not unique. Bad policies and poor leadership have negatively impacted major life issues. Things like abortion, IVF, surrogacy, euthanasia, as well as a growing support for degenerate cultural values in media, all stem from the pervasiveness of disorder.


Our own nation is led by a man who publicly and proudly proclaims his Catholic faith, but at the same time is delusional enough to make the Sign of the Cross during a pro- abortion rally. He has been so vocal in his support for the murder of innocent babies that I'm sure to many people it appears that you can be both Catholic and pro-choice.

He is not alone. From the man behind the COVID lockdowns to the people pushing dangerous gender ideologies onto the youth of America, they all have a glaring thing in common. They are Catholic. This is an important reminder that being Catholic alone doesn't cut it.


These are the sorts of things we are told in polite society to not bring up. You know, the difficult and unpleasant things. But if we are going to be men and women for this time in history, we need to stop pretending that the "Church of Nice" is a winning proposition. We must always speak and act in charity, but never mistake charity for cowardice.

It is safe to say that over the past few years, I have gained quite the reputation for speaking my mind. I never envisioned myself, nor wanted, to have this sort of a platform, but God has given it to me, so I have no other choice but to embrace it and preach more hard truths about accepting your lane and staying in it.


As members of the Church founded by Jesus Christ, it is our duty and ultimately privilege to be authentically and unapologetically Catholic. Don't be mistaken, even within the Church, people in polite Catholic circles will try to persuade you to remain silent. There even was an award-winning film called Silence, made by a fellow Catholic, wherein one of the main characters, a Jesuit priest, abandoned the Church, and as an apostate when he died is seen grasping a crucifix, quiet and unknown to anyone but God. As a friend of Benedictine College, His Excellency Bishop Robert Barron, said in his review of the film, it was exactly what the cultural elite want to see in Christianity -- private, hidden away, and harmless.

Our Catholic faith has always been countercultural. Our Lord, along with countless followers, were all put to death for their adherence to her teachings. The world around us says that we should keep our beliefs to ourselves whenever they go against the tyranny of diversity, equity, and inclusion. We fear speaking truth, because now, unfortunately, truth is in the minority. Congress just passed a bill where stating something as basic as the biblical teaching of who killed Jesus could land you in jail.


But make no mistake, before we even attempt to fix any of the issues plaguing society, we must first get our own house in order, and it starts with our leaders. The bishops and priests appointed by God as our spiritual fathers must be rightly ordered. There is not enough time today for me to list all the stories of priests and bishops misleading their flocks, but none of us can blame ignorance anymore and just blindly proclaim that “That's what Father said.” Because sadly, many priests we are looking to for leadership are the same ones who prioritize their hobbies or even photos with their dogs and matching outfits for the parish directory.

It's easy for us laymen and women to think that in order for us to be holy, that we must be active in our parish and try to fix it. Yes, we absolutely should be involved in supporting our parishes, but we cannot be the source for our parish priests to lean on to help with their problems. Just as we look at the relationship between a father and his son, so too should we look at the relationship between a priest and his people. It would not be appropriate for me to always be looking to my son for help when it is my job as his father to lead him.


St. Josemaría Escrivá states that priests are ordained to serve, and should not yield to temptation to imitate laypeople, but to be priests through and through. Tragically, so many priests revolve much of their happiness from the adulation they receive from their parishioners, and in searching for this, they let their guard down and become overly familiar. This undue familiarity will prove to be problematic every time, because as my teammate's girlfriend says, familiarity breeds contempt. [Laughter]

Saint Josemaría continues that some want to see the priest as just another man. That is not so. They want to find in the priest those virtues proper to every Christian, and indeed every honorable man:  understanding, justice, a life of work — priestly work, in this instance — and good manners. It is not prudent as the laity for us to consume ourselves in becoming amateur theologians so that we can decipher this or that theological teaching — unless, of course, you are a theology major. We must be intentional with our focus on our state in life and our own vocation. And for most of us, that's as married men and women. Still, we have so many great resources at our fingertips that it doesn't take long to find traditional and timeless teachings that haven't been ambiguously reworded for our times. Plus, there are still many good and holy priests, and it's up to us to seek them out.


The chaos of the world is unfortunately reflected in the chaos in our parishes, and sadly, in our cathedrals too.
As we saw during the pandemic, too many bishops were not leaders at all. They were motivated by fear, fear of being sued, fear of being removed, fear of being disliked. They showed by their actions, intentional or unintentional, that the sacraments don't actually matter. Because of this, countless people died alone, without access to the sacraments, and it's a tragedy we must never forget. As Catholics, we can look to so many examples of heroic shepherds who gave their lives for their people, and ultimately, the Church. We cannot buy into the lie that the things we experienced during COVID were appropriate. Over the centuries, there have been great wars, great famines, and yes, even great diseases, all that came with a level of lethality and danger. But in each of those examples, Church leaders leaned into their vocations and ensured that their people received the sacraments.

Great saints like St. Damien of Molokai, who knew the dangers of his ministry, stayed for 11 years as a spiritual leader to the leper colonies of Hawaii. His heroism is looked at today as something set apart and unique, when ideally it should not be unique at all. For as a father loves his child, so a shepherd should love his spiritual children, too.


That goes even more so for our bishops, these men who are present-day apostles. Our bishops once had adoring crowds of people kissing their rings and taking in their every word, but now relegate themselves to a position of inconsequential existence. Now, when a bishop of a diocese or the bishop's conference as a whole puts out an important document on this matter or that, nobody even takes a moment to read it, let alone follow it.

No. Today, our shepherds are far more concerned with keeping the doors open to the chancery than they are with saying the difficult stuff out loud. It seems that the only time you hear from your bishops is when it's time for the annual appeal, whereas we need our bishops to be vocal about the teachings of the Church, setting aside their own personal comfort and embracing their cross. Our bishops are not politicians but shepherds, so instead of fitting in the world by going along to get along, they too need to stay in their lane and lead.
I say all of this not from a place of anger, as we get the leaders we deserve. But this does make me reflect on staying in my lane and focusing on my own vocation and how I can be a better father and husband and live in the world but not be of it. Focusing on my vocation while praying and fasting for these men will do more for the Church than me complaining about her leaders.


Because there seems to be so much confusion coming from our leaders, there needs to be concrete examples for people to look to in places like Benedictine, a little Kansas college built high on a bluff above the Missouri River, are showing the world how an ordered, Christ-centered existence is the recipe for success. You need to look no further than the examples all around this campus, where over the past 20 years, enrollment has doubled, construction and revitalization are a constant part of life, and people, the students, the faculty and staff, are thriving. This didn't happen by chance. In a deliberate movement to embrace traditional Catholic values, Benedictine has gone from just another liberal arts school with nothing to set it apart to a thriving beacon of light and a reminder to us all that when you embrace tradition, success — worldly and spiritual — will follow.


I am certain the reporters at the AP could not have imagined that their attempt to rebuke and embarrass places and people like those here at Benedictine wouldn't be met with anger, but instead met with excitement and pride. Not the deadly sin sort of pride that has an entire month dedicated to it, but the true God-centered pride that is cooperating with the Holy Ghost to glorify him. Reading that article now shared all over the world, we see that in the complete surrender of self and a turning towards Christ, you will find happiness. Right here in a little town in Kansas, we find many inspiring laypeople using their talents.


President Minnis, Dr. [Andrew] Swafford, and Dr. [Jared] Zimmerer are a few great examples right here on this very campus that will keep the light of Christ burning bright for generations to come. Being locked in with your vocation and staying in your lane is going to be the surest way for you to find true happiness and peace in this life.


It is essential that we focus on our own state in life, whether that be as a layperson, a priest, or religious.

Ladies and gentlemen of the class of 2024, you are sitting at the edge of the rest of your lives. Each of you has the potential to leave a legacy that transcends yourselves and this era of human existence. In the small ways, by living out your vocation, you will ensure that God's Church continues and the world is enlightened by your example.

For the ladies present today, congratulations on an amazing accomplishment. You should be proud of all that you have achieved to this point in your young lives. I want to speak directly to you briefly because I think it is you, the women, who have had the most diabolical lies told to you. How many of you are sitting here now about to cross this stage and are thinking about all the promotions and titles you are going to get in your career? Some of you may go on to lead successful careers in the world, but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world.


I can tell you that my beautiful wife, Isabelle, would be the first to say that her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother. I'm on the stage today and able to be the man I am because I have a wife who leans into her vocation. I'm beyond blessed with the many talents God has given me, but it cannot be overstated that all of my success is made possible because a girl I met in band class back in middle school would convert to the faith, become my wife, and embrace one of the most important titles of all: homemaker.


[Applause lasting 18 seconds]


She is a primary educator to our children. She is the one who ensures I never let football or my business become a distraction from that of a husband and father. She is the person that knows me best at my core, and it is through our marriage that, Lord willing, we will both attain salvation.


I say all of this to you because I have seen it firsthand how much happier someone can be when they disregard the outside noise and move closer and closer to God's will in their life. Isabelle's dream of having a career might not have come true, but if you asked her today if she has any regrets on her decision, she would laugh out loud, without hesitation, and say, “Heck, No.”


As a man who gets a lot of praise and has been given a platform to speak to audiences like this one today, I pray that I always use my voice for God and not for myself. Everything I am saying to you is not from a place of wisdom, but rather a place of experience. I am hopeful that these words will be seen as those from a man, not much older than you, who feels it is imperative that this class, this generation, and this time in our society must stop pretending that the things we see around us are normal.


Heterodox ideas abound even within Catholic circles. But let's be honest, there is nothing good about playing God with having children — whether that be your ideal number or the perfect time to conceive. No matter how you spin it, there is nothing natural about Catholic birth control.


It is only in the past few years that I have grown encouraged to speak more boldly and directly because, as I mentioned earlier, I have leaned into my vocation as a husband and father, and as a man.


To the gentlemen here today: Part of what plagues our society is this lie that has been told to you that men are not necessary in the home or in our communities. As men, we set the tone of the culture, and when that is absent, disorder, dysfunction, and chaos set in. This absence of men in the home is what plays a large role in the violence we see all around the nation. Other countries do not have nearly the same absentee father rates as we find here in the U.S., and a correlation could be made in their drastically lower violence rates, as well.

Be unapologetic in your masculinity, fighting against the cultural emasculation of men. Do hard things. Never settle for what is easy. You might have a talent that you don't necessarily enjoy, but if it glorifies God, maybe you should lean into that over something that you might think suits you better. I speak from experience as an introvert who now finds myself as an amateur public speaker and an entrepreneur, something I never thought I'd be when I received my industrial engineering degree.


The road ahead is bright. Things are changing. Society is shifting. And people, young and old, are embracing tradition. Not only has it been my vocation that has helped me and those closest to me, but not surprising to many of you, should be my outspoken embrace of the traditional Latin Mass. I've been very vocal in my love and devotion to the TLM and its necessity for our lives. But what I think gets misunderstood is that people who attend the TLM do so out of pride or preference. I can speak to my own experience, but for most people I have come across within these communities this simply is not true. I do not attend the TLM because I think I am better than others, or for the smells and bells, or even for the love of Latin. I attend the TLM because I believe, just as the God of the Old Testament was pretty particular in how he wanted to be worshipped, the same holds true for us today. It is through the TLM that I encountered order, and began to pursue it in my own life. Aside from the TLM itself, too many of our sacred traditions have been relegated to things of the past, when in my parish, things such as ember days, days when we fast and pray for vocations and for our priests, are still adhered to. The TLM is so essential that I would challenge each of you to pick a place to move where it is readily available.


A lot of people have complaints about the parish or the community, but we should not sacrifice the Mass for community. I prioritize the TLM even if the parish isn't beautiful, the priest isn't great, or the community isn't amazing. I still go to the TLM because I believe the holy sacrifice of the Mass is more important than anything else. I say this knowing full well that when each of you rekindle your knowledge and adherence to many of the church's greatest traditions, you will see how much more colorful and alive your life can and should be.

As you move on from this place and enter into the world, know that you will face many challenges. Sadly, I'm sure many of you know of the countless stories of good and active members of this community who, after graduation and moving away from the Benedictine bubble, have ended up moving in with their boyfriend or girlfriend prior to marriage. Some even leave the Church and abandon God. It is always heartbreaking to hear these stories, and there is a desire to know what happened and what went wrong.


What you must remember is that life is about doing the small things well, setting yourself up for success, and surrounding yourself with people who continually push you to be the best version of you. I say this all the time, that iron sharpens iron. It's a great reminder that those closest to us should be making us better. If you are dating someone who doesn't even share your faith, how do you expect that person to help you become a saint? If your friend group is filled with people who only think about what you're doing next weekend and are not willing to have those difficult conversations, how can they help sharpen you?


As you prepare to enter into the workforce, it is extremely important that you actually think about the places you are moving to. Who is the bishop? What kind of parishes are there? Do they offer the TLM and have priests who embrace their priestly vocation? Cost of living must not be the only arbiter of your choices, for a life without God is not a life at all, and the cost of salvation is worth more than any career.


I'm excited for the future, and I pray that something I have said will resonate as you move on to the next chapter of your life.


Never be afraid to profess the one holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church, for this is the Church that Jesus Christ established, through which we receive sanctifying grace.


I know that my message today had a little less fluff than is expected for these speeches, but I believe that this audience and this venue is the best place to speak openly and honestly about who we are and where we all want to go, which is Heaven.


I thank God for Benedictine College and for the example it provides the world. I thank God for men like President Minnis, who are doing their part for the Kingdom. Come to find out you can have an authentically Catholic college and a thriving football program. [Laughter and applause]


Make no mistake: You are entering into mission territory in a post-God world, but you were made for this. 
And with God by your side and a constant striving for virtue within your vocation, you too can be a saint.


Christ is King.


To the Heights.
[Image: giphy.gif]
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
Reply/Quote
#2
I'm about as far from Catholic as it gets, but I see absolutely nothing in his speech that should spark any outrage, let alone the levels of vitriol he's been receiving. The man stated his opinion and didn't denigrate anyone else. He's also a professional athlete, not a politician. He's up there on his own time, representing himself. Anyone upset about this is overreacting.

Reply/Quote
#3
It's a catholic school commencement address, you kind of expect the sort of stuff he says to come out. IMO, mostly eyeroll worthy content. The most being the whole "but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world" line. Projecting your desires/expectations/values onto others is about as cringeworthy as it gets.

It's whatever. He's an authority on kicking a prolate spheroid through beams that are 18.5 feet apart, nothing else.
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]
Reply/Quote
#4
(05-22-2024, 11:00 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm about as far from Catholic as it gets, but I see absolutely nothing in his speech that should spark any outrage, let alone the levels of vitriol he's been receiving.  The man stated his opinion and didn't denigrate anyone else.  He's also a professional athlete, not a politician.  He's up there on his own time, representing himself.  Anyone upset about this is overreacting.

Well, as a recovering Catholic I can see where a lot of people would consider his speech as speaking down to women, saying men are more important and that without God we are doomed...which implies that we need to push god into our public discourse and laws.

I do NOT disagree with you that it was his opinion and his own time and probably the kind of things said every day in classrooms on that campus.

I just also see where when people are that honest they have to know that there will be backlash from people who disagree with them and people defending him (sometime rightfully so, sometimes also overreacting) seem to think it just "proves" him right.

My cavate would be that while he is representing himself we all know that if we do something in public, on our own time, that receives this much press our employer can be. fairly or unfairly, dragged into the conversation.  I'm sure the Chiefs would rather not have to deal with any of it too.  And again, right or wrong.
[Image: giphy.gif]
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
Reply/Quote
#5
(05-22-2024, 11:23 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: It's a catholic school commencement address, you kind of expect the sort of stuff he says to come out. IMO, mostly eyeroll worthy content. The most being the whole "but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world" line. Projecting your desires/expectations/values onto others is about as cringeworthy as it gets.

It's whatever. He's an authority on kicking a prolate spheroid through beams that are 18.5 feet apart, nothing else.

I've never wanted kids, even from an early age.  But I can understand the desire and my nephews are amazing.  Raising children is the most important thing an adult can do.  So yeah, I can see it being cringe for some, but I also think it accurately reflects a lot of people, especially ones going to a Catholic university.

(05-22-2024, 11:26 AM)GMDino Wrote: Well, as a recovering Catholic I can see where a lot of people would consider his speech as speaking down to women, saying men are more important and that without God we are doomed...which implies that we need to push god into our public discourse and laws.

I do NOT disagree with you that it was his opinion and his own time and probably the kind of things said every day in classrooms on that campus.

I just also see where when people are that honest they have to know that there will be backlash from people who disagree with them and people defending him (sometime rightfully so, sometimes also overreacting) seem to think it just "proves" him right.

My cavate would be that while he is representing himself we all know that if we do something in public, on our own time, that receives this much press our employer can be. fairly or unfairly, dragged into the conversation.  I'm sure the Chiefs would rather not have to deal with any of it too.  And again, right or wrong.

The Chiefs can squash it by issuing a statement that Butker was on his private time, representing himself and that the views expressed are his.  Again, he didn't say anything crazy, he didn't denigrate anyone.  His views are rather in line with the Catholic faith and he was speaking at a Catholic school.  Honestly, the outrage against him could be perceived as more bigoted than anything he stated.

Reply/Quote
#6
Harrison Butker represents pre 1962 Catholicism, the church before Vatican ii
 

 Fueled by the pursuit of greatness.
 




Reply/Quote
#7
(05-22-2024, 11:23 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: It's a catholic school commencement address, you kind of expect the sort of stuff he says to come out. IMO, mostly eyeroll worthy content. The most being the whole "but I would venture to guess that the majority of you are most excited about your marriage and the children you will bring into this world" line. Projecting your desires/expectations/values onto others is about as cringeworthy as it gets.

It's whatever. He's an authority on kicking a prolate spheroid through beams that are 18.5 feet apart, nothing else.

This is pretty expected.  I grew up Catholic, so every so often I was subjected to a "pep talk" of sorts from someone who was "cool" and/or "successful" regarding how being a Catholic isn't as lame and needlessly restrictive as it feels. There is only so much the same old weirdo priest dudes who don't get any can try to assure you being Catholic is worth it before they need to tag in someone who gets laid and/or doesn't fiddle with you to promote the brand.

With that being said, he's up there giving the commencement speech because he's really good at kicking a football, not because he has a wife and kids.  On a more serious note, this stuff is really going to throw a spanner in the Chiefs plan to turn everyone into an ultra woke lib.
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]
Reply/Quote
#8
(05-22-2024, 10:27 AM)GMDino Wrote: Couple personal notes:

1) He's speaking at a Catholic school so I understand the context of his speech.
2) It took all of three paragraphs to get political and accuse Biden of not being a real Catholic.
3) The line about "my teammates girlfriend" seems derisive in the text w/o hearing the tone of voice.  Watching the video at least he smirks?
4) He makes mention about making sure people receive the sacraments even during the worst times...ignoring that some of those worst times were caused  by or ignored completely by the Catholic church.
5) I'm really not sure about this line: "I am certain the reporters at the AP could not have imagined that their attempt to rebuke and embarrass places and people like those here at Benedictine wouldn't be met with anger..." I never heard of this school before he spoke there.
6) I bolded the section where speaks to the higher calling of being a mother and wife vs a career.  Given where he was speaking I imagine more than a few are thinking about such things. 
6a) His line about his wife not realizing HER dreams of a career but that "her life truly started when she began living her vocation as a wife and as a mother." sounds bad, to me.  I understand his praise of her supporting HIM as he lives HIS dreams though too.  
7) He also talks about men being home and part of the family.  Good point.
7a) Then he leans in and implies men must be the leaders of all things.  Eh.  


The rest is about proselytizing and making sure the graduates stay where they are welcome and continue their faith...which is the opposite of proselytizing if you ask me, but it was his speech, not mine.


Overall I get the people who were not happy about what he said.  Given the venue and audience, and what I now know about his own faith, it was him being honest.

He thinks change, even away from the Latin Mass, is bad and is destroying society.  As a born and raised Catholic who also attended a Benedictine Liberal Arts college I know these people and I disagree with him.

No one has to agree.  Many don't.

Guess I'll repost my response on the Alito thread, then.

Excellent and thorough contextualization. The speech was mostly targeted lapsing Catholics. A lot of his concerns are hard for non-Catholics to get worked up about.

As to the bolded--one of the primary issues of Second Wave Feminism back in the 60s, and books like Betty Friedan's The Feminine Mystique, was that young women are taught from girlhood that their real and true fulfillment only comes through marriage and children, and that women who think otherwise are only deceiving themselves. Men's fulfillment comes through their careers--but they need unconditional support at home from wives devoted to their and their children's needs.

Then, as now apparently, many people asked "What's so wrong with that?"Confused  Most men back then answered "Nothing that I can see."  Wink

The first voices to answer in the negative, however, were talented women who had given up their careers for marriage and children, and found their lives rather empty after their children were grown. Alongside them were bright young women who didn't understand why their brothers had all these life choices before them while they were being channeled into one. 

As the laws back then reflected Butker's views, it was the goal of the movement to roll back legal and social bars to women's advancement. As women's rights advanced, lots of men felt threatened, as did some women. Phyllis Schlafly comes to mind here, and here successful push to stall the ERA. She was the first that I recall to flip the feminist argument for "choice" and "equality" into a defense of traditional restrictions as a "career choice" the feminists were trying to restrict. Shouldn't women have the right to find fullfilment in home and marriage, understood as team in which the man is the boss. A family, like a car, can only have "one driver" she said, while framing the marriage choice as all about freedom. 

I can see why people who remember that history might have negative thoughts about Butker's celebration of that traditional view and see in it a risk to feminist gains, just as people troubled by gender equality might celebrate his praise for traditional patriarchy. 
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]
Reply/Quote
#9
(05-22-2024, 11:00 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm about as far from Catholic as it gets, but I see absolutely nothing in his speech that should spark any outrage, let alone the levels of vitriol he's been receiving.  The man stated his opinion and didn't denigrate anyone else.  He's also a professional athlete, not a politician.  He's up there on his own time, representing himself.  Anyone upset about this is overreacting.

??? Biden is a "delusional" false Catholic who supports the "murder of innocent babies."  
That sounds a bit like denigration. Maybe it's different when you hear it?
Same for all the weak, approval-seeking priests and bishops Butker castigates 
in paragraph after paragraph for "misleading their flocks." And is he praising AP reporters? 

He says "We need to stop pretending that the 'Church of Nice' is a winning proposition." 
So he has no choice but to "preach hard truths" --people need to stay in their lanes.

Speaking of lanes, SOMEONE is deluding young women with "lies" about their true calling--marriage and children.
And young men as well. They need to reassert their masculinity to take control of the culture.

I can see why people who have constantly pushed against patriarchy to realize women's equality might take offense at some of this.
And why many on right would have no problem with a message of essential gender inequality. 
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]
Reply/Quote
#10
(05-22-2024, 01:44 PM)pally Wrote: Harrison Butker represents pre 1962 Catholicism, the church before Vatican ii

Yeah, spent a lot of time boosting the TLM that first brought "order" into his life. 
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]
Reply/Quote
#11
(05-22-2024, 03:26 PM)Dill Wrote: Guess I'll repost my response on the Alito thread, then.

Excellent and thorough contextualization. The speech was mostly targeted lapsing Catholics. A lot of his concerns are hard for non-Catholics to get worked up about.

As to the bolded--one of the primary issues of Second Wave Feminism back in the 60s, and books like Betty Friedan's The Feminine Mystique, was that young women are taught from girlhood that their real and true fulfillment only comes through marriage and children, and that women who think otherwise are only deceiving themselves. Men's fulfillment comes through their careers--but they need unconditional support at home from wives devoted to their and their children's needs.

Then, as now apparently, many people asked "What's so wrong with that?"Confused  Most men back then answered "Nothing that I can see."  Wink

The first voices to answer in the negative, however, were talented women who had given up their careers for marriage and children, and found their lives rather empty after their children were grown. Alongside them were bright young women who didn't understand why their brothers had all these life choices before them while they were being channeled into one. 

As the laws back then reflected Butker's views, it was the goal of the movement to roll back legal and social bars to women's advancement. As women's rights advanced, lots of men felt threatened, as did some women. Phyllis Schlafly comes to mind here, and here successful push to stall the ERA. She was the first that I recall to flip the feminist argument for "choice" and "equality" into a defense of traditional restrictions as a "career choice" the feminists were trying to restrict. Shouldn't women have the right to find fullfilment in home and marriage, understood as team in which the man is the boss. A family, like a car, can only have "one driver" she said, while framing the marriage choice as all about freedom. 

I can see why people who remember that history might have negative thoughts about Butker's celebration of that traditional view and see in it a risk to feminist gains, just as people troubled by gender equality might celebrate his praise for traditional patriarchy. 

And his definition of "lapsed Catholic" is anyone following today's Catholic Church and accepting of modern theology as dictated by Pope Francis. Popes who post Vatican II are considered illegitimate by most of this movement
 

 Fueled by the pursuit of greatness.
 




Reply/Quote
#12
(05-22-2024, 04:00 PM)Dill Wrote: ??? Biden is a "delusional" false Catholic who supports the "murder of innocent babies."  
That sounds a bit like denigration. Maybe it's different when you hear it?

Biden is, at best, a cafeteria Catholic.  If you believe that a fetus is a human life, which the vast majority of Catholics do, then yes, abortion is murdering an innocent baby.  You don't have to agree, but your agreement isn't required either.  If only you strove to defend Catholicism with a tenth of the vigor you devote to Islam.


Quote:Same for all the weak, approval-seeking priests and bishops Butker castigates 
in paragraph after paragraph for "misleading their flocks." And is he praising AP reporters? 

Yes, in his opinion.  I don't see having an opinion as denigration.


Quote:He says "We need to stop pretending that the 'Church of Nice' is a winning proposition." 
So he has no choice but to "preach hard truths" --people need to stay in their lanes.

Yeah, again, his opinion.


Quote:Speaking of lanes, SOMEONE is deluding young women with "lies" about their true calling--marriage and children.
And young men as well. They need to reassert their masculinity to take control of the culture.

Without women having children none of us would be here.  My mother was a rabid feminist and also a homemaker.  And, again, this is all his opinion.

Quote:I can see why people who have constantly pushed against patriarchy to realize women's equality might take offense at some of this.
And why many on right would have no problem with a message of essential gender inequality. 

Take offense to it all day, it's one man's opinion.  I hear horrifyingly offensive things all the time, I don't feel the need to go into a tailspin over it.  The man believes in a traditional Christian family structure.  He's hardly alone.  Wanting him to lose his job over it is inane.  You disagree with him, fine.  Who cares.

Reply/Quote
#13
A person should be able to separate his personal religious beliefs and policies that apply to every person of every religion.

We elect our Presidents to promote Civil Law not religious beliefs. Policy is public and religious beliefs are personal.
 

 Fueled by the pursuit of greatness.
 




Reply/Quote
#14
(05-22-2024, 06:46 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Biden is, at best, a cafeteria Catholic.  If you believe that a fetus is a human life, which the vast majority of Catholics do, then yes, abortion is murdering an innocent baby.  You don't have to agree, but your agreement isn't required either.  If only you strove to defend Catholicism with a tenth of the vigor you devote to Islam.
Yes, in his opinion.  I don't see having an opinion as denigration.
Yeah, again, his opinion.

?? I've defended Islam, the religion, somewhere?? and with "vigor"?? Or do you just mean I've defended Muslims against bigotry?
Don't care what kind of Catholic Biden is or whether his beliefs align with "the majority of Catholics."

I posted because you said "The man stated his opinion and didn't denigrate anyone else."  

He clearly did just that. Having an opinion is "denigration" if it defames, devalues and belittles someone.

If someone opined "all black people are lazy," who would defend him by saying "Well no, that was just an opinion. Having one can't denigrate anyone."

(05-22-2024, 06:46 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Speaking of lanes, SOMEONE is deluding young women with "lies" about their true calling--marriage and children.
And young men as well. They need to reassert their masculinity to take control of the culture.


Without women having children none of us would be here.  My mother was a rabid feminist and also a homemaker.  And, again, this is all his opinion.

??? The claim was that marriage and children are a woman's true calling; men need to assert their masculinity to take control of the culture. 

Do you agree with that? 

(05-22-2024, 06:46 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I can see why people who have constantly pushed against patriarchy to realize women's equality might take offense at some of this.
And why many on right would have no problem with a message of essential gender inequality.

Take offense to it all day, it's one man's opinion.  I hear horrifyingly offensive things all the time, I don't feel the need to go into a tailspin over it.  The man believes in a traditional Christian family structure.  He's hardly alone.  Wanting him to lose his job over it is inane.  You disagree with him, fine.  Who cares.

There are quite a few things you DO go into a tailspin over. Why take the time to express your feeling in this case if you don't?
I don't believe I called for him to be fired. And knock against him is not that he's "alone" in what he believes.

I'm "hardly alone" when I disagree that marriage and children are a woman's true calling and men need to assert their masculinity
to take control of the culture, but the appeal to numbers generally doesn't secure value judgments. 
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]
Reply/Quote
#15
I'm not asking anyone to read this guy's mind, but is there a better reason other than "politically current boogie man-ism" that he lumped surrogacy and IVF in with his list of gripes?

A lot of his other stuff is mostly the same ol' "quiver full" Catholicism schtick.  Make Jesus the center of your relationship, get a piece of paper from the government, and then fill her up and the rest will simply fall into place.

Oh, and since republicans made Jesus their mascot...don't have kids if you can't afford them...I guess?  Lord knows fertility and your max earning potential both peak around the age of 15.
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]
Reply/Quote
#16
(05-22-2024, 07:47 PM)Dill Wrote: ?? I've defended Islam, the religion, somewhere?? and with "vigor"?? Or do you just mean I've defended Muslims against bigotry?
Don't care what kind of Catholic Biden is or whether his beliefs align with "the majority of Catholics."


No, you defend Islam.  When I pointed out, correctly, that Islam is a regressive ideology pretty much everywhere it predominates you had an aneurysm.  Maybe you're allergic to facts?



Quote:I posted because you said "The man stated his opinion and didn't denigrate anyone else."  

He clearly did just that. Having an opinion is "denigration" if it defames, devalues and belittles someone.

If someone opined "all black people are lazy," who would defend him by saying "Well no, that was just an opinion. Having one can't denigrate anyone."

Hyperbole is not a winning argument.



Quote:??? The claim was that marriage and children are a woman's true calling; men need to assert their masculinity to take control of the culture. 

Do you agree with that? 

No, but he does.  I also don't think it's worth getting upset over. 



Quote:There are quite a few things you DO go into a tailspin over. Why take the time to express your feeling in this case if you don't?
I don't believe I called for him to be fired. And knock against him is not that he's "alone" in what he believes.

I do?  You'll have to find one for me.  I didn't say you wanted him fired.  But some people have called for exactly that.


Quote:I'm "hardly alone" when I disagree that marriage and children are a woman's true calling and men need to assert their masculinity
to take control of the culture, but the appeal to numbers generally doesn't secure value judgments. 

Clearly, as most Islamic countries demonstrate on a daily basis.  Refresh our memory again, how are women treated there?

Reply/Quote
#17
So much for tolerance.

Everyone has their own opinions on matters and they are entitled to it, and listening doesn't hurt if the speaking is not being done in a harmful way.
I don't subscribe to his stance, but again, he's entitled to is, I haven't lived in his shoes, and neither have any of you.

I seriously hope no one is calling for him to lose his job over this. That's hateful.
[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]
Reply/Quote
#18
(05-22-2024, 11:59 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So much for tolerance.

Everyone has their own opinions on matters and they are entitled to it, and listening doesn't hurt if the speaking is not being done in a harmful way.
I don't subscribe to his stance, but again, he's entitled to is, I haven't lived in his shoes, and neither have any of you.

I seriously hope no one is calling for him to lose his job over this. That's hateful.

It's also rather interesting that this commencement speech has garnered far more attention/outrage from left leaning posters than the "death to America" chants at pro-Palestine rallies.  

Priorities and all.

https://www.change.org/p/demand-the-kansas-city-chiefs-to-dismiss-harrison-butker-for-discriminatory-remarks

224,279 signatures as of time of posting.  The tolerant left.

Reply/Quote
#19
(05-23-2024, 01:45 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's also rather interesting that this commencement speech has garnered far more attention/outrage from left leaning posters than the "death to America" chants at pro-Palestine rallies. 

Priorities and all.

https://www.change.org/p/demand-the-kansas-city-chiefs-to-dismiss-harrison-butker-for-discriminatory-remarks

224,279 signatures as of time of posting.  The tolerant left.

[Image: giphy.gif]
[Image: giphy.gif]
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
Reply/Quote
#20
(05-22-2024, 11:59 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So much for tolerance.

Everyone has their own opinions on matters and they are entitled to it, and listening doesn't hurt if the speaking is not being done in a harmful way.
I don't subscribe to his stance, but again, he's entitled to is, I haven't lived in his shoes, and neither have any of you.

I seriously hope no one is calling for him to lose his job over this. That's hateful.

Time to blow the dust off this one...

[Image: free_speech.png]

And, of course, the same applies to those who agree with him and feel the OTHER side are assholes.

Carry on.
[Image: giphy.gif]
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
Reply/Quote





Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)