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***Nate (formerly eliminate08)*** · 10-08-2021, 08:42 PM

(10-08-2021, 01:53 PM)jason Wrote: Unless he melts down, I see no reason to move away from Carman. Let him develop under fire.

Best way to know and we don't have a backup at this time anyways as Pally noted with XSF being on IR.

I think he just gets better especially in the run game as I think that is his strength when he is on it.

Moving to Guard hides his pass protecting problems against speed rushers.

(10-08-2021, 02:50 PM)Benton Wrote: Carman needs to play. We need a starter. If he isn't that guy, we need to know before the seasons over.

As far as the line looking better, it should have. We played harder defenses when xsf was in. How Carman does against tougher pressure needs to be seen.

True.

(10-08-2021, 03:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Penalties - 2
Sacks - 0
Pressures - 1

The PFF grade is a bit misleading though unless you pay for higher subscription to see the breakdowns.
He's actually primarily dinged on his run blocking, not his pass blocking.
His pass blocking is fair, at 53.6.
I've never gotten them to respond when asked, so I'm not sure why he's been dinged below 60 (decent starter level) in pass blocking.

Makes PFF look a bit silly here, nothing new. Expect Carman to grow and be a top run blocking and pass blocking Guard.

Tough move that takes time, but he is a natural fit as most of us were saying before we even drafted him.

Most of us knew he was going to convert to Guard once he grows pro and knew it would take some time.

Think he has played just as good as I thought he would of at this point if not better.

**NUGDUKWE** · 10-08-2021, 09:04 PM

(10-02-2021, 07:13 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I personally feel we can play both love the 6 oline 3 wr sets we are running gives me hope zac is finally learning. He also had cj as a fullback like i have been suggesting.

Yes Zac's 1st 2 years he really struggled to make adjustments as the season progressed. Really looks like this year after 2 games we made some good adjustments to protect Burrow some may be the competition level were playing against. But I'm really enjoying the extra lineman thing and it seems to mesh really well with our offense.

***Nate (formerly eliminate08)*** · 10-08-2021, 09:19 PM

(10-08-2021, 09:04 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yes Zac's 1st 2 years he really struggled to make adjustments as the season progressed. Really looks like this year after 2 games we made some good adjustments to protect Burrow some may be the competition level were playing against. But I'm really enjoying the extra lineman thing and it seems to mesh really well with our offense.

Same, love the extra Lineman look. Always have even when we did our Jumbo package with PA.

Cedric Benson (aka The Boogie Man) RIP had a great year behind that Jumbo package and is a good changeup and can protect.

**Luvnit2** · 10-09-2021, 10:36 AM

(10-08-2021, 08:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Best way to know and we don't have a backup at this time anyways as Pally noted with XSF being on IR.

I think he just gets better especially in the run game as I think that is his strength when he is on it.

Moving to Guard hides his pass protecting problems against speed rushers.

True.

Makes PFF look a bit silly here, nothing new. Expect Carman to grow and be a top run blocking and pass blocking Guard.

Tough move that takes time, but he is a natural fit as most of us were saying before we even drafted him.

Most of us knew he was going to convert to Guard once he grows pro and knew it would take some time.

Think he has played just as good as I thought he would of at this point if not better.

Sewell was also moved out of position to RG, I think his overall PFF rating is around 56. My point is as good as they guys are or may be, there is an adjustment period for playing in the NFL and then adding playing a new position.

***ochocincos*** · 10-09-2021, 12:23 PM

(10-08-2021, 08:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Best way to know and we don't have a backup at this time anyways as Pally noted with XSF being on IR.

I think he just gets better especially in the run game as I think that is his strength when he is on it.

Moving to Guard hides his pass protecting problems against speed rushers.

True.

Makes PFF look a bit silly here, nothing new. Expect Carman to grow and be a top run blocking and pass blocking Guard.

Tough move that takes time, but he is a natural fit as most of us were saying before we even drafted him.

Most of us knew he was going to convert to Guard once he grows pro and knew it would take some time.

Think he has played just as good as I thought he would of at this point if not better.

Not necessarily.
Just because you didn't allow a pressure doesn't mean you were perfect on a rep.

**Nicomo Cosca** · 10-09-2021, 05:31 PM

(10-09-2021, 10:36 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Sewell was also moved out of position to RG, I think his overall PFF rating is around 56. My point is as good as they guys are or may be, there is an adjustment period for playing in the NFL and then adding playing a new position.

Pretty sure Sewell has played every snap at LT so far due to the Decker injury. Sounds like Sewell is going to miss this week’s game with an injury of his own though.

**Luvnit2** · 10-09-2021, 05:51 PM

(10-09-2021, 05:31 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Pretty sure Sewell has played every snap at LT so far due to the Decker injury. Sounds like Sewell is going to miss this week’s game with an injury of his own though.

My bad, you are correct. Makes Sewell look worse since he is playing his natural position so poorly at the start. He has no excuses other than amy be not NFL ready to start day 1

***SHRacerX*** · 10-10-2021, 10:50 AM

(10-02-2021, 07:20 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Probably but should be on a short lease

With an option to buy? Hilarious

***SHRacerX*** · 10-10-2021, 10:54 AM

(10-04-2021, 03:57 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s not just PFF, people that really know their stuff (Jake Liscow, Matt Minich, etc) have pointed out he makes a lot of mistakes. There’s been plenty of good in there too though. And it’s not like XSF was playing all that well in the first couple games. I personally think Carman has done enough to keep getting starts. But I guarantee the first time he gives up a big sack there will be people screaming to get him out of there.

Lisco has also pointed out some amazing plays he has made. The bottom line is, like Burrow, he is still coming back from surgery (herniated disc) that he played through his final 5 games (which both hurt his evaluations and his ability to perform on a pro day). We know what XSF is and he isn't suddenly going to be a 75 rated OG.

There was a great line in one of the Locked On Bengals podcasts that XSF didn't have an assignment error, but he just couldn't get there in time. Carman is a better athlete and has a lot more speed and agility. As he continues to get valuable experience from playing actual NFL games, he will continue to improve. Look at how the LB corps has progressed.

We all feel a lot better with Pollack instructing the guy as well.

***SHRacerX*** · 10-10-2021, 10:58 AM

(10-08-2021, 02:50 PM)Benton Wrote: Carman needs to play. We need a starter. If he isn't that guy, we need to know before the seasons over.

As far as the line looking better, it should have. We played harder defenses when xsf was in. How Carman does against tougher pressure needs to be seen.

This begs another question: Where do we see D'Ante Smith moving forward? The other guard? A developmental RT? He surely has the length and speed for tackle. Same goes with Adeniji? I don't want to just rely on them and let Reiff go, but I am curious what the Bengals think about where to try and place those guys.

Isiah Prince has been a real gem for an UDFA as well. Put Fred on the bench, and has showed pretty well in limited action.

fredtoast · 10-10-2021, 12:50 PM

(10-08-2021, 09:04 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Yes Zac's 1st 2 years he really struggled to make adjustments as the season progressed.

Actually they improved the run game dramatically after the bye week in 2019. At the time I praised Turner for that.

**NUGDUKWE** · 10-10-2021, 05:50 PM

(10-10-2021, 12:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually they improved the run game dramatically after the bye week in 2019. At the time I praised Turner for that.

Your right but it took them 8 games into the season to get it figured out and I think they basically had a blueprint on how to block for Mixon from the previous year.

***TheLeonardLeap*** · 10-10-2021, 05:56 PM

Carman looked like he was getting manhandled most of the game. Not sure if it was just a bad matchup for him, but he wasn't looking great whenever I saw him.

***pally*** · 10-10-2021, 05:57 PM

(10-10-2021, 05:56 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Carman looked like he was getting manhandled most of the game. Not sure if it was just a bad matchup for him, but he wasn't looking great whenever I saw him.

yeah he was pretty shakey today

**Nicomo Cosca** · 10-10-2021, 06:34 PM

Yeah, he had a rough game. Pressures, let his man bat down balls, etc.

**Joelist** · 10-10-2021, 06:37 PM

A rough game was bound to happen. But all in all the line is still doing its job. A FAR bigger issue is the faulty play designs and play calls. Still WAY too much out of the shotgun, too many empty sets, no plays designed to roll Burrow out, no traps or draws, very little use of the seams. This goofy scheme sets the line up for issues and is not teaching Burrow the right way to play QB in the pros.

***Synric*** · 10-10-2021, 06:43 PM

The Bengals had -2 yards in the second quarter until under a minute with that 70 yarder to Chase.

**Essex Johnson** · 10-10-2021, 07:28 PM

For those that trashed players like Hart and others with PFF.. if Carman has another terrible rating ( 3 games in a row), is there a realistic replacement

**Shake n Blake** · 10-10-2021, 07:30 PM

(10-10-2021, 07:28 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: For those that trashed players like Hart and others with PFF.. if Carman has another terrible rating ( 3 games in a row), is there a realistic replacement

In free agency or trade? Maybe.

On this roster? No. XSF is equally terrible. We needed Carman to step up this year.

**TheFan** · 10-10-2021, 08:40 PM

The whole oline was pretty terrible in the first half. Which is why going empty was kind of stupid. The defense is most fresh and usually pressures the best in the first half. So let's let them know we're passing every down so they can pin back and rush the passer. On drives we actually had a RB back there, even if not used, the oline typically blocked pretty well.

We also continue to do no rollouts or other things to help the line.

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