Hillary: An Unborn Child Hours Before Delivery Has No Constitutional Rights

[*wildcats forever*]

(08-14-2016, 02:20 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Only one can chose to remove themselves from the responsibility. Not sure what I am missing or what I have failed to answer. They both accept the responsibility, but only one gets to make the decisions on the outcome.

Legally I agree, but the 'responsibility' issue wasn't being addressed as much as I believe how much it comes into play while considering all options. And I am really trying to avoid being all moralistic here. When pregnancy becomes a reality, how these individuals view their responsibilities toward the future child, each other, and all things in between is a major factor imho. 

Personally if I were one to want the child to be born, and she didn't, it would likely be one of the hardest things for me to overcome. I can only imagine how that would be a very real heartbreaker. But our laws do not provide for allowing options for father to be on equal footing with the mother. This is a simple acknowledgement of the law - not a defense of it. And there is the elephant in the middle of the room. A woman with an unwanted pregnancy. I am also not one to force her to have a baby against her will either. A dilemma for sure. There is no single, 'one size fits all' answer. Life isn't fair. It's reality.

[*bfine32*]

(08-14-2016, 03:11 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Legally I agree, but the 'responsibility' issue wasn't being addressed as much as I believe how much it comes into play while considering all options. And I am really trying to avoid being all moralistic here. When pregnancy becomes a reality, how these individuals view their responsibilities toward the future child, each other, and all things in between is a major factor imho. 

Personally if I were one to want the child to be born, and she didn't, it would likely be one of the hardest things for me to overcome. I can only imagine how that would be a very real heartbreaker. But our laws do not provide for allowing options for father to be on equal footing with the mother. This is a simple acknowledgement of the law - not a defense of it. And there is the elephant in the middle of the room. A woman with an unwanted pregnancy. I am also not one to force her to have a baby against her will either. A dilemma for sure. There is no single, 'one size fits all' answer. Life isn't fair. It's reality.

I agree with this and the point has been contention throughout. Abortion laws do not treat the male and female equally because of biological sex. Everyone can see this; yet some refuse to admit it. Because admitting it and supporting the current laws is admitting you support laws that do not treat folks equally. 

[GMDino]

(08-14-2016, 05:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I agree with this and the point has been contention throughout. Abortion laws do not treat the male and female equally because of biological sex. Everyone can see this; yet some refuse to admit it. Because admitting it and supporting the current laws is admitting you support laws that do not treat folks equally. 

[Harmening]

(08-14-2016, 03:11 PM)wildcats forever Wrote:  There is no single, 'one size fits all' answer. Life isn't fair. It's reality.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-14-2016, 05:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I agree with this and the point has been contention throughout. Abortion laws do not treat the male and female equally because of biological sex. Everyone can see this; yet some refuse to admit it. Because admitting it and supporting the current laws is admitting you support laws that do not treat folks equally. 

How can abortion laws treat men and women equally when men aren't the ones pregnant nor having the abortion?

You don't think women should attend Ranger School based upon their sex so what are you arguing about anyway?

[BmorePat87]

(08-14-2016, 05:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Abortion laws do not treat the male and female equally because of biological sex.

When you went to get an abortion, the clinic didn't turn you away because you were a dude...

[*bfine32*]

(08-14-2016, 08:37 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: When you went to get an abortion, the clinic didn't turn you away because you were a dude...

Bur when I went there and told them I didn't want that lady to abort my baby they did because I was a dude.

Some here that are Pro Choice are open-minded enough to understand that current abortion laws are not equal and they are not equal because of biological sex; but, there is a faction here that cannot.

There was a guy earlier in the thread that stated they are equal because of custody rights, there were others that stated they are equal because the law pointed to differences in men and women, and there are those that realize they are not equal but will atempt to redirect the light on the person that is pointing out that they are unequal.

This is what I call the Logic of Liberals (LOL). It is similar to when it was revealed that the DNC cheated to ensure Hills got their nomination. We were quickly told that the real story is Trump likes Putin. 

[GMDino]

(08-14-2016, 09:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Bur when I went there and told them I didn't want that lady to abort my baby they did because I was a dude.

Seriously...this is nothing but trolling now.

[*bfine32*]

(08-14-2016, 09:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: there are those that realize they are not equal but will atempt to redirect the light on the person that is pointing out that they are unequal.

This is what I call the Logic of Liberals (LOL). 

(08-14-2016, 09:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: Seriously...this is nothing but trolling now.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-05-2016, 02:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You saying that they should agree that one person gets to make the decision, my stance is that they have entered into a mutual agreement. I didn't say the woman gave consent to every possible outcome. For instance if he's a deadbeat, she gets final say. He only gets final say under the following circumstances:

She doesn't want sole custody
She doesn't want shared custody
If the parents of the mother don't want custody (they should not be able to force)
The pregnancy could jeopardize the health of the mother or baby or does so at any time during the pregnancy
He can provide for medical expenses
He can provide the baby with a safe stable environment
He has a support group (or a family care plan) to assist with rearing the child
Not if the pregnancy was a result of rape or incest (4pat)

Only if ALL those conditions are met; does the father get to keep his Child. Outside of that mom can dispose of it as she wishes.

(08-09-2016, 05:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why do you keep going back to "right to control their own body"? Quit reading the T-Shirt . No one is talking about control of anybody else's body. 

(08-14-2016, 09:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Bur when I went there and told them I didn't want that lady to abort my baby they did because I was a dude. 

You have gone from stipulating when a man can control a women's body, to claiming no one was talking about controlling another person's body, and finally back to trying to control another person's body.

In your last scenario, were you the one getting the abortion?  No. Were you the one giving informed consent for the abortion?  No. Can you withhold some else's consent?  No. Can you override or veto someone else's consent?  No. Why? Because you aren't the patient. If the woman went to get a shoulder reconstruction, cardiac ablation, cholecystectomy, or ANY surgical procedure and you told the staff, "I don't want her to do it," they would still go ahead and do it BECAUSE YOU AREN'T THE PATIENT, GENIUS. it doesn't have damn thing to do with you being a dude. It has been explained over and over.

Let's not forget you want to regulate who can get advanced reproductive technology IOT become a parent.  So you want to control their bodies, also. Why?

[BmorePat87]

(08-14-2016, 09:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Bur when I went there and told them I didn't want that lady to abort my baby they did because I was a dude.

I tried to order a plastic surgeon to not perform a breast reduction on a woman. They called the cops. Clearly the law discriminated against me cause I was a dude. 

[*bfine32*]

(08-15-2016, 12:15 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I tried to order a plastic surgeon to not perform a breast reduction on a woman. They called the cops. Clearly the law discriminated against me cause I was a dude. 

Totally dismissing the warped state of mind that would allow someone to equate an abortion to a breast reduction; this is not the topic of discussion. I know you and others wish it were so you could keep trotting out the "her body, her choice" scenarios. 

It is not a question of if the current abortion laws are justified; it is are they equal. 

[fredtoast]

(08-13-2016, 11:18 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: There is nothing "equal" about a woman being able to terminate a pregnancy at her own discretion with no consent from the male when the male has zero ability to terminate the pregnancy under any circumstance. 

(08-13-2016, 11:39 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It hasn't been answered. The 'go to' response is, "a man can't have control over a woman's body". I agree with that BUT that's not the only option. 

If a woman can walk away from the responsibility at her discretion and a man can not, that is not equal. A man should have the ability to walk away as well, not through forcing her to have an abortion, but by signing a legal document that absolves him from any financial responsibility. 

(08-13-2016, 11:42 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: How can you type this stuff with a serious face?

Before the child is born, she can terminate the pregnancy and walk away easily. The man has no option, at any point, of walking away.

(08-13-2016, 11:43 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: The woman consented as well. But she has an out. He doesn't. 

Not equal rights. 

(08-13-2016, 11:46 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So then you are in favor of outlawing abortion and making the woman carry the child to term, so that she is required to financially care for the person she helped create, consensually. 

You still don't get it.

The way you want the law to work is not fair either.  It would allow a man to walk away and force the woman to be 100% responsible for the financial support of the child.  Since there is no way the woman can do this there is nothing fair about the way you want the law to work.

So basically you don't care about what is fair.  You just want the man to have the advantage.

The way I want the law to work is as fair as possible.  Because of biological differences there is currently no way to make things 100% fair, but making it unfair in favor of the man is no better than making it unfair in favor of the woman.  But at least in the way I want the law to work it will be 100% fair once technology advances to the point that avfetus can be removed from the woman's body and raised by the man.

[Rotobeast]

(08-15-2016, 12:15 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I tried to order a plastic surgeon to not perform a breast reduction on a woman. They called the cops. Clearly the law discriminated against me cause I was a dude. 

Those doctors should be arrested for performing such a surgery.
A damn crime against humanity !
You're a true hero, Pat.
I dub thee.... Sir Boob-a-lot.

*insert "huuuge tracts of land" Python reference*

On topic.... Join the Manist movement for equality.
*Python "I want to have babies"*



Boobies.....
Big boobies.....
Never give up the ship !



Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[BFritz21]

(08-15-2016, 12:15 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I tried to order a plastic surgeon to not perform a breast reduction on a woman. They called the cops. Clearly the law discriminated against me cause I was a dude. 

Did your genetic material help create her boobs? 

Did her boobs have your DNA in them?

Were her boobs independent people?

Horrible attempt at an argument.

[BmorePat87]

(08-15-2016, 12:44 AM)bfine32 Wrote: It is not a question of if the current abortion laws are justified; it is are they equal. 

As far as I know, the law allows any adult who is pregnant can get an abortion up to the legal cut off if they willingly consent to it. 

[BmorePat87]

(08-15-2016, 03:34 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Did your genetic material help create her boobs? 

Did her boobs have your DNA in them?

They had them on them.

Quote:Were her boobs independent people?

Yes, I call them Scarlet and Claire. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-15-2016, 12:44 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Totally dismissing the warped state of mind that would allow someone to equate an abortion to a breast reduction; this is not the topic of discussion. I know you and others wish it were so you could keep trotting out the "her body, her choice" scenarios. 

Brought to by the sponsors of the t-shirt message, "attack the message, not the messenger."

Quote:It is not a question of if the current abortion laws are justified; it is are they equal. 

Your argument was ridiculous. If you aren't the person giving informed consent you can't tell a surgeon not to perform ANY surgical procedure on someone else. And it has nothing to do with you being a dude and everything to do with it isn't your body undergoing the surgical procedure.

[GMDino]

Stay on topic.

The post I quoted flies directly in the face of the current law and the argument that a woman is the one who has control over her own body.

(08-14-2016, 09:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Bur when I went there and told them I didn't want that lady to abort my baby they did because I was a dude.

It shows a either a deep misunderstanding of the law or an attempt to continue to twist the OP until it is unrecognizable in order to troll the boards.
Then claiming that people will question you for such things is inane and unneeded.  What do you want?  Abortion is legal...you can't demand your woman not have an abortion...if you get a woman pregnant you cannot "opt out" of your financial responsibilities.
Sorry life isn't "fair" or "equal" to you.  But playing the martyr card for 20 pages just to make it seem like everyone is ganging up on you when we all pretty much agreed what is happening in the real world in boring and annoying.

[BFritz21]

(08-15-2016, 04:00 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: They had them on them.




Yes, I call them Scarlet and Claire. 

When his argument gets exposed as a fraud, he make jokes.

Typical Pat.