How good was Bengals '17 draft.

[*Synric*]

I would like to see Jordan Evans get a shot at outside linebacker at least while Burfict is suspended.

Preseason and the first 2 to 4 games starting the season?

[fredtoast]

(03-25-2018, 01:51 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm not sure who "most" are, but it doesn't include me. 

(03-25-2018, 03:12 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I don't think most people think the draft class was a disappointment.  Where are you getting this info?

I hear a lot of people say stuff like "The Bengals used to draft well, but not any more" or "The Bengals had a couple of good drafts a few years ago, but that was just a fluke" or "It's been a while since we had a good draft".

Maybe they are not specifically complaining about 2017, but they are lumping it in with the weaker drafts we have had in the last few years.

[samhain]

(03-25-2018, 10:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I hear a lot of people say stuff like "The Bengals used to draft well, but not any more" or "The Bengals had a couple of good drafts a few years ago, but that was just a fluke" or "It's been a while since we had a good draft".

Maybe they are not specifically complaining about 2017, but they are lumping it in with the weaker drafts we have had in the last few years.

It looks like it could pan out well with Mixon/Lawson.

As you are frequently quick to point out when defending MJ, Willis has shown nothing to get overly excited about as of yet.  Glasgow is a nice backup.  Evans is a work in progress and is another player that will be a good ST player, but hasn't shown enough to be penciled in as a starting-caliber player yet.  I like Brandon Wilson.  Ross is an enigma at this point.  I liked the pick, to be honest.  Like you, I also am a big fan of Malone.

Other than Mixon, which one of those players is a surefire starter for the next 5 years?

2017's crop will go a long way if it's as good as you seem to think.  If that's the case, then there should be zero reason to retain guys like LaFell and MJ when you have players like Willis and Malone waiting in the wings to pick up where they've left off.

[SadFaceBengal15]

Honestly the Ross pick almost ruins it for me, but it’s still def solid. Reason being tho is cuz when u are a good team which we all know the bengals are with a ton of talent we just fell of right quick for a couple but pending this draft we are right back in it imo. So when u have a chance to make a top 10 pick u have to get a playmaker someone that can come in right now and help u and we took the frail injury prone one trait wonder tiny John Ross. I was furious and still am. Love mixon love Lawson love Willis and I personally am interested in mason schreck. And I loved Elliot so the rest was well done.

[BoomerFan]

(03-25-2018, 02:20 PM)tBengal Wrote: I think Willis and Malone will surprise a lot of people, especially Malone. I was a big fan of his in college and was ecstatic when we drafted him. I liked what I saw in the appearances I saw him last year.

I was so hyped about drafting Willis last year but was disappointed with what I saw on the field. I realize it was just his first year and yes he is getting snaps, but I was still underwhelmed. In order of how impressed I was with actual play it went (from best to worst): Carl Lawson > Ryan Glasgow >>> Jordan Evans > Jordan Willis

All that said, yeah, we definitely got some productive guys out of this draft and I'm not giving up on Ross yet either. Impressive year. 

[CornerBlitz]

(03-25-2018, 10:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I hear a lot of people say stuff like "The Bengals used to draft well, but not any more" or "The Bengals had a couple of good drafts a few years ago, but that was just a fluke" or "It's been a while since we had a good draft".

Maybe they are not specifically complaining about 2017, but they are lumping it in with the weaker drafts we have had in the last few years.

I think the weak draft class was the one where we reached for offensive linemen in the first 2 rounds to replace our aging tackles.  Outside of that I don't think the Bengals have slipped in terms of draft talent evaluation. 

On the flip side I think we can all agree that free agency evaluation has a lot to be desired.

[bengalhoel]

Is it too early to write off Otis Hudson yet?

[Pat5775]

(03-26-2018, 03:08 AM)CornerBlitz Wrote: I think the weak draft class was the one where we reached for offensive linemen in the first 2 rounds to replace our aging tackles.  Outside of that I don't think the Bengals have slipped in terms of draft talent evaluation. 

On the flip side I think we can all agree that free agency evaluation has a lot to be desired.

I blame that BS on Paul Alexander having the power to override a few people   

Hopefully stuff like that never happens again 

[BengalChris]

(03-25-2018, 10:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I hear a lot of people say stuff like "The Bengals used to draft well, but not any more" or "The Bengals had a couple of good drafts a few years ago, but that was just a fluke" or "It's been a while since we had a good draft".

Maybe they are not specifically complaining about 2017, but they are lumping it in with the weaker drafts we have had in the last few years.

The 2017 draft has turned out to be above average for the Bengals despite the failure of Ross.

I am one of those who doesn't see the recent drafts as being as good as previous ones and here's some examples as to why.

Just because we ended up with some players getting playing time from a draft doesn't mean they were good draft picks. Look at Ogbuehi and Fisher. Both have had lots of playing time the last couple of years and look at what that cost the team. It cost wins and helped contribute to no playoffs.

Going back earlier we spent 2nd round picks on Hunt and Still. Both wasted a lot of coach time and contributed little.

2012 produced Zeitler, Kirkpatrick, Marvin Jones, Sanu and George Iloka. That's a top quality draft.

2011 produced AJ Green, Andy Dalton and Clint Boling. That's two pro bowlers and another good starter. A quality draft.

2010 produced Gresham, Dunlap and Atkins. Two key top starters came from this draft.

Now let's look some that were not so spectacular.

2013 Eifert, Bernard, Berkhead and Shawn Williams. Eifert turned out great, but only part time. Bernard is also a contributor. Shawn Williams is a guy who couldn't replace Nelson, but does start.

2014 Dennard, Hill, Clarke, Bodine, McCarron, Flowers. Bodine gave us weak Center play for 4 years. Dennard is a good player, but he took too long to start in the slot. Hill is a better player than fans give him credit for. Had to run behind Bodine, Og and Fisher, sad. Clarke was cut after 3 useless seasons.

2015 Ogbuehi, Fisher, Kroft, Shaw. Kroft starts when Eifert can't and does ok. Og and Fisher were flops. Shaw is a decent rotation guy. This was not a good draft.

2016 Jackson, Boyd, Vigil, Billings, Westerman. Jackson is a star in the making. Billings is in the rotation. Westerman we really haven't seen enough of. Vigil is starting to the determent of the team. Boyd has not been able to replace Sanu in the slot.


2014, 2015 and 2016 were not as good and 2010, 2011 and 2012.

[iamjed]

Is your top 10 pick important ? The next 10 picks after Ross .
10 Kansas City Chiefs QB Patrick Mahomes
11 New Orleans Saints CB Marshon Lattimore
12 Houston Texans QB DeShaun Watson
13 Arizona Cardinals OLB Haason Reddick
14 Philadelphia Eagles DE Derek Barnett
15 Indianapolis Colts FS Malik Hooker
16 Baltimore Ravens CB Marlon Humphrey
17 Washington Redskins DT Jonathan Allen
18 Tennessee Titans CB Adoree Jackson
19 Tampa Bay Buccaneers TE O.J. Howard
Other First Round Notables
25 Cleveland Browns SS Jabrill Peppers
30 Pittsburgh Steelers OLB T.J. Watt
31 San Francisco 49ers ILB Reuben Foster
32 New Orleans Saints OT Ryan Ramczyk
Would any of these been a better pick than Ross ? Is a draft successful if your first round pick is not ?

[fredtoast]

(03-26-2018, 11:35 AM)iamjed Wrote: Would any of these been a better pick than Ross ?

Is a draft successful if your first round pick is not ?

Too early to judge if any of those players will be better than Ross.

And, yes, a draft can be very successful even if the first round pick is not.

[*ochocincos*]

I guess I was an outlier compared to most people. I REALLY liked the 2017 Bengals draft.
Quality contributions from Mixon, Lawson, Willis, Malone, Glasgow, and Evans. 247+ snaps for each of them. I think Mixon and Lawson will become good players. I have optimism for Willis to become a solid edge defender but I don't see him being an elite one. Malone could develop like Marvin Jones did and blossom into a quality WR2 with time.
Jake Elliott was a good pick that unfortunately didn't win the camp battle but did go on to kick well for PHI.
Ross, Wilson, and Schreck didn't really have a chance to do anything due to injuries. And I still have a ton of optimism for Ross (likely more than most).
The only pick I really didn't care for at all at the time was JJ Dielman.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(03-25-2018, 02:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Like the others have already mentioned, it's a bit too early to tell.  But, as far as I can tell, the early returns look promising.  The '17 class appears to be blowing the doors off of the '14 and '15 classes, in comparison.

Well now, that's not exactly that hard to do is it?

[bengals67]

From a long term perspective, Good draft if Ross turns out well.

Still scratching my head to understand why we did nothing in 17 to address Bodine and the OT situation.

[BengalChris]

(03-26-2018, 11:35 AM)iamjed Wrote: Is your top 10 pick important ? The next 10 picks after Ross .
     10 Kansas City Chiefs QB Patrick Mahomes
      11 New Orleans Saints CB Marshon Lattimore
      12 Houston Texans QB DeShaun Watson
      13 Arizona Cardinals OLB Haason Reddick
      14 Philadelphia Eagles DE Derek Barnett
      15 Indianapolis Colts FS Malik Hooker
      16 Baltimore Ravens CB Marlon Humphrey
      17 Washington Redskins DT Jonathan Allen
      18 Tennessee Titans CB Adoree Jackson
      19 Tampa Bay Buccaneers TE O.J. Howard
Other First Round Notables
      25 Cleveland Browns SS Jabrill Peppers
      30 Pittsburgh Steelers OLB T.J. Watt
      31 San Francisco 49ers ILB Reuben Foster
      32 New Orleans Saints OT Ryan Ramczyk
Would any of these been a better pick than Ross ? Is a draft successful if your first round pick is not ?

(03-26-2018, 11:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Too early to judge if any of those players will be better than Ross.

And, yes, a draft can be very successful even if the first round pick is not.

Some of them do have a pretty big head start though.

[XsandOs]

(03-25-2018, 10:29 PM)samhain Wrote: It looks like it could pan out well with Mixon/Lawson.

As you are frequently quick to point out when defending MJ, Willis has shown nothing to get overly excited about as of yet.  Glasgow is a nice backup.  Evans is a work in progress and is another player that will be a good ST player, but hasn't shown enough to be penciled in as a starting-caliber player yet.  I like Brandon Wilson.  Ross is an enigma at this point.  I liked the pick, to be honest.  Like you, I also am a big fan of Malone.

Other than Mixon, which one of those players is a surefire starter for the next 5 years?

2017's crop will go a long way if it's as good as you seem to think.  If that's the case, then there should be zero reason to retain guys like LaFell and MJ when you have players like Willis and Malone waiting in the wings to pick up where they've left off.

I agree.

When Lawson bulks up and becomes a 3 down player, then we will see. Maybe he will do that this year, but until he does.....

Some folks post information on the number of snaps that the '17 picks played. That's is not a barometer of quality.  

If Ross and Lawson pan out, then this draft will be a great one.

 

[fredtoast]

(03-26-2018, 10:30 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Some of them do have a pretty big head start though.

Jordan Shipley was 2nd in the league in receiving yards (600) by a rookie in 2010.

[fredtoast]

(03-26-2018, 11:35 AM)BengalChris Wrote: Just because we ended up with some players getting playing time from a draft doesn't mean they were good draft picks.

I agree with this.  But it works both ways.  Just look at this draft

(03-26-2018, 11:35 AM)BengalChris Wrote: 2012 produced Zeitler, Kirkpatrick, Marvin Jones, Sanu and George Iloka. That's a top quality draft.

Kirkpatrick, Jones, Sanu, and Iloka did nothing their rookie seasons

[*ochocincos*]

(03-26-2018, 05:06 PM)bengals67 Wrote: From a long term perspective, Good draft if Ross turns out well.

Still scratching my head to understand why we did nothing in 17 to address Bodine and the OT situation.

Because Paul Alexander stands on the table for his guys.

[Shake n Blake]

(03-25-2018, 10:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I hear a lot of people say stuff like "The Bengals used to draft well, but not any more" or "The Bengals had a couple of good drafts a few years ago, but that was just a fluke" or "It's been a while since we had a good draft".

Maybe they are not specifically complaining about 2017, but they are lumping it in with the weaker drafts we have had in the last few years.

That's quite a stretch. People saying we don't draft well anymore ALSO might not be judging the most recent draft either way. Too soon and all that jazz. That's pretty much how I feel. We had a string of pretty weak drafts, the most recent one looks promising, but too soon to fully judge either way.

So...I might be inclined to say "it's been awhile since we had a great draft", and I'm not going to feel inclined to add "but it's too soon to judge the 2017 class" disclaimer to every post where I make such a claim, just so Fred won't accuse me of hating the 2017 draft.