I have bad news for you

[fredtoast]

(10-14-2016, 03:42 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I think this much is evident when you look at the last team we beat with a current winning record. I mean I had I had track this to a week 8 win vs the Ravens in 2014 when they was 5-3! 

Just last year we beat the Chargers (1-0), Bills (3-2), and Steelers (4-3), when they had winning records.

[fredtoast]

(10-14-2016, 03:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 3. Schwartz and Marrone had as much success early as Marv did early in his career.

How do you figure?

Schwartz was 8-24 his first two seasons and only had one season .500 or better until he was fired after winning only 29 games in 5 years.  In Marvin's first five years he had four teams .500 or better and won 42 games.

Doug Marone only won 6 games his first season and was fired after winning only 15 games in 2 seasons.  Marvin won 8 games his first season and 16 over his first two.

[Bengalsrob]

(10-13-2016, 09:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Jack Del Rio?  The guy who has three winning seasons in 10 years as a head coach?

Hue Jackson?  The guy who has NEVER had a winning season as a head coach?  The Browns are not only 0-5, but they have been outscored by 61 points and no other team has been outscored by more than 50.


Is this supposed to be some kind of joke post?

No joke, I'm talking about those coaches coaching the Bengals, not the Jags or Browns, it's dumfounding to see how they can have ten days to prepare and fall flat on their faces to a rookie QB, even if it's on the road. As for the Browns, 39 of those points outscored came against the Patriots with Brady, and the Eagles at Philly, they actually scored more points than the Steelers did there. I'm actually afraid to watch this week's game at New England. Perhaps our coaches will have a sterling game plan to pull the upset?

[Shake n Blake]

(10-14-2016, 04:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How do you figure?

Schwartz was 8-24 his first two seasons and only had one season .500 or better until he was fired after winning only 29 games in 5 years.  In Marvin's first five years he had four teams .500 or better and won 42 games.

Doug Marone only won 6 games his first season and was fired after winning only 15 games in 2 seasons.  Marvin won 8 games his first season and 16 over his first two.

You know Schwartz took over the worst team of all-time, right? I don't even count his first year, in fairness to him. After that, he went 6-10, 10-6, 4-12 and 7-9. Kinda looks like Marv's pre-reboot days honestly.

Marrone had a winning season in his 2nd year with an awful franchise. While Marv didn't have a winning season until his 3rd year.

Just not seeing a big gap when comparing their early years. It seems some people forget how mediocre (and at time straight up bad) some of Marv's pre-2011 teams were. 

Perhaps you'd prefer one of the promising young coordinators to replace Marv? Since you don't like Schwartz or Marrone (who weren't my favorite candidates from that list anyway)?

[*jason*]

(10-14-2016, 11:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: You know Schwartz took over the worst team of all-time, right? I don't even count his first year, in fairness to him. After that, he went 6-10, 10-6, 4-12 and 7-9. Kinda looks like Marv's pre-reboot days honestly.

Marrone had a winning season in his 2nd year with an awful franchise. While Marv didn't have a winning season until his 3rd year.

Just not seeing a big gap when comparing their early years. It seems some people forget how mediocre (and at time straight up bad) some of Marv's pre-2011 teams were. 

Perhaps you'd prefer one of the promising young coordinators to replace Marv? Since you don't like Schwartz or Marrone (who weren't my favorite candidates from that list anyway)?

How about this Patricia guy from NE? We can treat this week as his audition... The guy's a rocket scientist or something.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-15-2016, 12:02 AM)jason Wrote: How about this Patricia guy from NE? We can treat this week as his audition...  The guy's a rocket scientist or something.

He won't even need to be a researcher this weekend.....

[Hoofhearted]

(10-14-2016, 03:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just last year we beat the Chargers (1-0), Bills (3-2), and Steelers (4-3), when they had winning records.

You're right, I am sorry. Like a dumbass, I looked at the records AFTER. Still, our last win vs a winning team is week 8 of last year. That's what 8 losses in a row vs teams with winning records?

[Shake n Blake]

(10-15-2016, 12:02 AM)jason Wrote: How about this Patricia guy from NE? We can treat this week as his audition...  The guy's a rocket scientist or something.

Great candidate. He might have to clean up his image though.

[Aquapod770]

(10-11-2016, 01:34 AM)Utts Wrote: We do not have a coaching problem, but the coaching could be better.

We don't have an attitude or motivational problem either.

This is a talent problem. We are getting whipped in the trenches, on both sides of the ball. You can scheme around your weaknesses to a point. However, our problems appear to be bad enough, that schemes cannot overcome them.

The window has closed. It was fun while it lasted. Time to think about how this team rebuilds. Might be time to let Marvin retire, and go get Vance Joesph to come home and rebuild. We still have some core players with plenty of time left, so I could see us being a playoff team again in 2018. Maybe 2017 with some bold moves, and a little luck.

6-10 this season.

So what was the problem in 2013? 2015? Those teams were uber talented. Widely regarded as one of the deepest rosters in the league each of those years. Yes we have a talent problem. We also have a very big coaching problem. 

[Aquapod770]

(10-14-2016, 02:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And I am sick of people who think change just for the sake of change fixes anything.

Some people think we have a better chance going with someone who does not have as good of a track record as Marvin.  They might be correcty or they might be wrong.

Other people think that Marvins proven ability to beat the best teams in the league over the last 3 years makes him the best candidate to bring us success.  they might be correct or they might be wrong.

Neither side has the right to claim they 100% know exactly what needs to be done.  And neither side has the right to accuse the other of "accepting mediocrity".  EVERYONE HER wants to win.  We just disagree on what is the best way to achieve this.

 

[Aquapod770]

(10-15-2016, 08:03 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: You're right, I am sorry. Like a dumbass, I looked at the records AFTER. Still, our last win vs a winning team is week 8 of last year. That's what 8 losses in a row vs  teams with winning records?

It's not like final records are a more accurate measure of how good a team is right?!?!?!? 

[Beaker]

I say the Bengals can pull 10-6....realistically.....really.

Here's how...

Wins: CLE, @CLE, WAS, NYG, @HOU, BAL

Losses: @NE, PIT, @BAL

Toss Ups: BUF, PHI

Take the two toss up games and they are 10-6, back into the playoffs, have no expectations, and pull off the upset to break the streak.

They only have to win 2 road games @CLE and @HOU to do that (very realistic), and could surprise PIT or @BAL to get to 11-5.

People bail too easily when things get tough.

[muskiesfan]

I don't think the Bengals are that short on talent. Their OLine and OLine coach continue to shit the bed, but outside of that I don't think talent is the issue. I think health is the issue.

LaFell is playing well but still has a gimpy thumb, Eifert is out, Dennard is not 100, Kirkpatrick is not 100, Burfict is still getting back into the swing, and on and on. However, I think this is the time to have it happen. I'd rather everyone be healthy down the stretch and able to make a push than have to worry about literally limping into the playoffs yet again.

The OLine needs to figure out something quick though. If Dalton continues to get killed, talent or no talent won't matter.

[Brownshoe]

(10-15-2016, 04:03 PM)Beaker Wrote: I say the Bengals can pull 10-6....realistically.....really.

Here's how...

Wins: CLE, @CLE, WAS, NYG, @HOU, BAL

Losses: @NE, PIT, @BAL

Toss Ups: BUF, PHI

Take the two toss up games and they are 10-6, back into the playoffs, have no expectations, and pull off the upset to break the streak.

They only have to win 2 road games @CLE and @HOU to do that (very realistic), and could surprise PIT or @BAL to get to 11-5.

People bail too easily when things get tough.

I think WAS, and @HOU are toss ups too. The Redskins have a good offense, and their defense isn't horrible. Norman might give Green some trouble too. I think we win, but it's going to be close... The Texans just have our number. We have beat them 1 time out of the last 7. We can defiantly win, but that stat is going to be in the back of my mind the whole time.

[*jason*]

(10-15-2016, 04:03 PM)Beaker Wrote: I say the Bengals can pull 10-6....realistically.....really.

Here's how...

Wins: CLE, @CLE, WAS, NYG, @HOU, BAL

Losses: @NE, PIT, @BAL

Toss Ups: BUF, PHI

Take the two toss up games and they are 10-6, back into the playoffs, have no expectations, and pull off the upset to break the streak.

They only have to win 2 road games @CLE and @HOU to do that (very realistic), and could surprise PIT or @BAL to get to 11-5.

People bail too easily when things get tough.

I agree that we love to pile on when things aren't going well. What has me very pessimistic about their chances this year is that they seem one dimensional (throw it to AJ or pray), and the have zero explosion on offense. A team that's won over 50 games the last few seasons should be able to go into NE and put up a great fight or even win. This team struggles to put up points. They have to hold the Patriots to 17 points or so to eek out a win. It does feel early to bail on the season, but they've shown next to nothing so far.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-15-2016, 05:00 PM)jason Wrote: I agree that we love to pile on when things aren't going well. What has me very pessimistic about their chances this year is that they seem one dimensional (throw it to AJ or pray), and the have zero explosion on offense. A team that's won over 50 games the last few seasons should be able to go into NE and put up a great fight or even win. This team struggles to put up points. They have to hold the Patriots to 17 points or so to eek out a win. It does feel early to bail on the season, but they've shown next to nothing so far.

Yep....and there seems to be a lack of fire.

[*rfaulk34*]

Just to up the ante a little bit, on top of my fanduel picks...i won't be wearing my Eifert color rush jersey tomorrow. That thing is 1-3 and just feels off. It's staying in a pile on the floor. 

[BengalYankee]

(10-11-2016, 01:34 AM)Utts Wrote: We do not have a coaching problem, but the coaching could be better.

We don't have an attitude or motivational problem either.

This is a talent problem. We are getting whipped in the trenches, on both sides of the ball. You can scheme around your weaknesses to a point. However, our problems appear to be bad enough, that schemes cannot overcome them.

The window has closed. It was fun while it lasted. Time to think about how this team rebuilds. Might be time to let Marvin retire, and go get Vance Joesph to come home and rebuild. We still have some core players with plenty of time left, so I could see us being a playoff team again in 2018. Maybe 2017 with some bold moves, and a little luck.

6-10 this season.

2016...

[bengalhoel]

(10-11-2016, 09:34 AM)Au165 Wrote: Going to have to disagree. Very little changed in the trenches from last year to this year, but with vastly different results on both sides. Andre Smith isn't the magic bullet that was giving us time last year. I also will tell you schemes are notorious for hiding bad players on the line and creating false pressure on defense. The patriots have little talent on their o line, but they protect brady by using backs and TE's to help and using quick routes/rub routes to get guys open quickly.

This team has the talent, but they lack vision in the scheme and no ability to adjust. We didn't use any bunch routes to free AJ up this weekend. They are running cover two, so how about a split end/slot go/post combo to beat cover 2? Where were the smash concepts on the outside? Why were we not moving the pocket with bootlegs and waggles to buy time? Misdirection slows down pass rush, moving the pocket makes the d lineman run farther to get to the QB.

This is not a talent problem it is an ego problem. It seems like we want to do what "we do" rather than adjusting to what "they do".

All very good points. Marvin is so obsessed with the ground and pound that he kills any momentum we have when our passing game is working. I swear I cannot stand when something is working (short passes for good gains, or TE over the middle) and they call that same run up the middle that gains somewhere between -2 and 1 yards. What is worse is when we play this small ball, the more plays we run = more possibilities for our O-line to jump offsides , which this teams seems to do at least once a series.

Im all for being balanced but when something is working keep doing it. Belichick will throw 70 times in a row if it is working . This team acts like it calls plays from one of those 1960's library books that say NFL football on the front. 

[Brownshoe]

(10-15-2016, 08:03 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: You're right, I am sorry. Like a dumbass, I looked at the records AFTER. Still, our last win vs a winning team is week 8 of last year. That's what 8 losses in a row vs  teams with winning records?

To be fair we would have beat the Steelers twice and the Broncos with Dalton on the field. Not having your starting QB kills your offense and it was plain to see that our offense was way worse without Dalton.