I see people say Zac is a bad OC/playcaller but good HC...

[THE PISTONS]

What exactly makes Zac a good HC?

-The team has started either bad or slow each of the years he coached us. 5-4 was our best midway record under Zac.

-The team rarely scores TDs in the 1st quarter. Many of those plays are scripted. It goes to game prep.

-The team has an insanely bad record when trailing going into the 4th quarter.

-He's had no success as an OC at any previous stop...A good HC is responsible for the coordinators.

So what exactly makes him a good HC?

On the Pro side: The players do seem to like him, atleast in interviews. Taking the gameballs to local businesses after playoff wins is cool too.

[*bfine32*]

He

Took

A

Team

Who

Hadn't

Won

A

Playoff

Game

In

30

Years

To

The

Super

Bowl

In

Only

3

Years

[JumboTron]

These threads are getting worse by the hour. Sunday can't get here soon enough.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2022, 11:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: He

Took

A

Team

Who

Hadn't

Won

A

Playoff

Game

In

30

Years

To

The  

Super

Bowl

In

Only

3

Years

They caught lightning in a bottle with Burrow and Chase.

[*bfine32*]

(11-01-2022, 11:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They caught lightning in a bottle with Burrow and Chase.

OK, let's do it your way:

He's a good coach because he led a team who hadn't won a playoff game in 30 years to the Super Bowl and he caught Lightning in a Bottle.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2022, 11:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: OK, let's do it your way:

He's a good coach because he led a team who hadn't won a playoff game in 30 years to the Super Bowl and he caught Lightning in a Bottle.

And what coaching qualities did he use to do that?

[TheFan]

(11-01-2022, 11:06 PM)JumboTron Wrote: These threads are getting worse by the hour.  Sunday can't get here soon enough.

Apparently Pistons is just going to make up more crap and ignore we started 5-3 last year. Maybe he's still drunk from yesterday.

[*bfine32*]

(11-01-2022, 11:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And what coaching qualities did he use to do that?

Some that no Bengal Head Coach has used since 1988.

This place is getting stupid. You alone have 2 threads in the top 10 blasting Zac and there are others by different folk.


Zac never gets credit for the wins; in fact: "We win in spite of him"


I've heard the same people saying:

He's too predictable/ He should quit trying to be too cute

He's too aggressive/He shoulda just taken the FG

We don't make halftime adjustments/ Why do we wait until the second half


The dude was is the HC of a defending AFC Champion who was .5 seconds from winning it all. He galvanized this team and parted ways with malcontents. 

The dude has done all you could ask from an HC, yet folks are busting a spring because we're 1 game out of the playoff picture. 

[TheFan]

(11-01-2022, 11:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What exactly makes Zac a good HC?

-The team has started either bad or slow each of the years he coached us. 2 4-4 starts were our best midway records under Zac.

-The team rarely scores TDs in the 1st quarter. Many of those plays are scripted. It goes to game prep.

-The team has an insanely bad record when trailing going into the 4th quarter.

-He's had no success as an OC at any previous stop...A good HC is responsible for the coordinators.

So what exactly makes him a good HC?

I agree with some of what you shared. I dont think Taylor should be calling plays and he definitely deserves blame for some of our offensive troubles. Burrow also deserves a lot of blame for our slow starts. 

Some of what you shared is crap though. 

The first point is just a lie. Did you look at most other teams records when trailing going into the 4th? Most teams are bad at coming back. 

"Records when trailing by 3+ going into the 4th quarter, since 2017: Shanahan: 1-29 McVay: 3-25 Harbaugh: 4-21 Belichick: 4-25"

[*bfine32*]

(11-01-2022, 11:34 PM)TheFan Wrote: I agree with some of what you shared. I dont think Taylor should be calling plays and he definitely deserves blame for some of our offensive troubles. Burrow also deserves a lot of blame for our slow starts. 

Some of what you shared is crap though. 

The first point is just a lie. Did you look at most other teams records when trailing going into the 4th? Most teams are bad at coming back. 

"Records when trailing by 3+ going into the 4th quarter, since 2017: Shanahan: 1-29 McVay: 3-25 Harbaugh: 4-21 Belichick: 4-25"

I think a very telling stat of how bad of a coach Zac is:

We lose 100% of the games where the other team scores more points than us. 100%, you CANNOT get any worse. You'd think even an average coach could win 1 or 2 of those.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-01-2022, 11:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Some that no Bengal Head Coach has used since 1988.

This place is getting stupid. You alone have 2 threads in the top 10 blasting Zac and there are others by different folk.


Zac never gets credit for the wins; in fact: "We win in spite of him"


I've heard the same people saying:

He's too predictable/ He should quit trying to be too cute

He's too aggressive/He shoulda just taken the FG

We don't make halftime adjustments/ Why do we wait until the second half


The dude was is the HC of a defending AFC Champion who was .5 seconds from winning it all. He galvanized this team and parted ways with malcontents. 

The dude has done all you could ask from an HC, yet folks are busting a spring because we're 1 game out of the playoff picture. 

Zac is 20-36-1. 36% win percent reg season.

[*Go Cards*]

He has the players believing in him and bought in even when the fans are in full revolt.

Has created a good culture as well.

He did the impossible and has the Bengals FO buying in and spending money in FA. Who would have thought this to be possible ?

By the way those FA he has selected have been pretty darn good as well. Reader, Hendrickson, Awuzie, Hurst, Karras, Cappa, Hilton, Ogunjobi to name a few and then traded for BJ Hill.

Did anybody mention that he won the first playoff game since 1991 for the Bengals and then ran thru the playoff gauntlet while beating the Raiders, Titans, Chiefs along the way. Then almost beat the Rams who are absolutely loaded with star players and several future HOF'ers.

Still say take Whitworth off the Rams and back on Bengals and they win easily, but I digress.

Yes I think he is a good HC, but not a good OC at the present

[*Go Cards*]

(11-01-2022, 11:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Zac is 20-36-1. 36% win percent reg season.

What is his playoff winning percentage, I forgot ? 

[JumboTron]

(11-02-2022, 01:38 AM)Go Cards Wrote: What is his playoff winning percentage, I forgot ? 

Uh oh, didn't you know this team won IN SPITE of Zac?

Isn't that right Pistons?

[TheCincinnatiKid]

To me it's a bit of a chicken/egg scenario. Yes he did take us to the Super Bowl, but there is consideration for how much of that is on the DC... on Burrow.. on Chase etc. I don't think that's an unreasonable debate.

To really know who gets credited for what, we'd need access to the team which we as fans simply don't have. We're not in on comms during a drive or a training session etc, to know exactly what Zac or anybody's influence is. We can generally only work around interview snippets etc. So we can say 'well our scripted drives suck', but we ourselves don't know what Zac does on the fly to adapt as well. We either praise him or Burrow depending on our own bias.

My own opinion; I've seen a lot of things I feel have had the team poorly prepared this season. Some of the gameplanning seems way off at times. The pre-SB Zac seasons were not good. If he gets responsibility for taking us to the Super Bowl, he gets responsibility for the rest too. And by the numbers right now, our 'non-Super Bowl run' stats look pretty bad. Take out the last part of last season, and his record is awful in terms of W's and L's.

HOWEVER... there is no question that he was part of a Bengals unit that got us to within a minute of our first Lombardi. I know players won't out their coach while he's here, but I really don't doubt Burrow when he says about how happy he is ZT is our HC. I think Zac has built a really good culture here, and has a team that is really together. No divas, no guys talking out of line in interviews etc, nobody who is splintering the team when things are going wrong. You do sometimes hear those things from other teams.

Said in another thread a few days back about what a 'good character' team this seems to be. The days of Burfict/Pacman seem a long time ago when you look at our team right now. Zac deserves credit for building that. He deserves credit for the team going out in the offseason and clearly going all in to address their issues. It seemingly hasn't worked as we hoped, but the intention and effort was clearly there.

TL;DR - I don't think he's some all wonderful HC, and I think there are clear deficiencies personally, I think we should be a better team than we're showing. BUT he definitely deserves a lot of credit for what he's achieved/is achieving too. I do personally think that even if we 'stand still' in the offseason, this team will be more successful next year. Far more experienced franchises have struggled following a SB loss.

[Bengalbug]

(11-01-2022, 11:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Zac is 20-36-1. 36% win percent reg season.

Oh boy. I’m not here to defend or blast Zac, but throwing 2019/2020 stats in 2022 is irrelevant. The roster has been more than 50% (just guessing) turned over. The argument could be made he lost with marvins roster, but has been winning with his.

There is currently two starters on offense from 2019 starting 11 - Boyd and mixon
On the defense side, as true starters, bates and Hubbard.

I’m not going through the whole roster, but on the starting 22 we have 18 new faces.

Zac has his faults as a play caller, and his vanilla personality, but he has done a pretty fantastic job of overhauling the team and selling the internal stakeholders to allow for that to happen. Something Marvin never succeeded in.

[Sled21]

(11-01-2022, 11:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Some that no Bengal Head Coach has used since 1988.

This place is getting stupid. You alone have 2 threads in the top 10 blasting Zac and there are others by different folk.


Zac never gets credit for the wins; in fact: "We win in spite of him"


I've heard the same people saying:

He's too predictable/ He should quit trying to be too cute

He's too aggressive/He shoulda just taken the FG

We don't make halftime adjustments/ Why do we wait until the second half


The dude was is the HC of a defending AFC Champion who was .5 seconds from winning it all. He galvanized this team and parted ways with malcontents. 

The dude has done all you could ask from an HC, yet folks are busting a spring because we're 1 game out of the playoff picture. 

And, it's mostly the same people who just two years ago were whining about "All I want before I die is to see them win a playoff game." My how the bar has been moved.

[Sled21]

(11-02-2022, 01:38 AM)Go Cards Wrote: What is his playoff winning percentage, I forgot ? 

Ouch, that left a mark.....

[Garrus]

I think he has built a good team and manages it well. I sometimes have issue with his offensive philosophy and decisions in game but every coach makes bad calls, even Belichick and Reid. This season I think it has mostly been more of the players not playing well rather than bad coaching. Burrow sunk us against Pittsburgh, and Mixon has been an issue all year. We also aren't eliminated yet so there is still a chance for him/the team to save the season.

[Rubekahn29]

This has been a disappointing start to the season, but it’s only disappointing because of what we accomplished last year. You can’t discredit him for last year just because you’re disappointed. We did this last year when Cleveland matched up against us the first time. They just have our number. The 49ers have the Rams number, it happens.

The super bowl hangover is real. There is a reason super bowl losers hardly ever return to the playoffs the year after. It can’t be a coincidence with that much evidence. I don’t know if we make the playoffs, but you can believe we aren’t going down without a fight.