If Trump loses...potential "purge"?

[hollodero]

(10-21-2020, 09:49 AM)PhilHos Wrote: People believing Trump's complaints of a rigged election and taking it upon themselves to be violent as a result is NOT the same thing as Trump telling people to go out and commit crimes because he'll pardon them. Again, Trump has done NOTHING to suggest that he'll tell people to commit crimes because he'll pardon them. Nothing. 

He did not say that, I agree with that. I don't know if he would ever say that, I just argue it's not an absurd possibility. There are several incidents I see as suggestion it would not be beyond him. Starting with those "if I lose, the election was rigged" and "millions of fraudulent votes were and are counted" comments (which, even when applying your take on that, is playing with fire and grossly irresponsible at best); but also including him offering to pay the legal fees of supporters that "knock the crap out of" protesters; or him actually suggesting he might pardon immigration workers that break the law on behalf of his goals. There's also the instance of him pardoning political friends like Stone or Arpaio. And of course Trump refusing to guarantee a peaceful transfer of power.

Now sure, one can see all these instances as irrelevant; I'm perfectly fine with your not seeing it that way. What imho takes it too far is claiming there is NOTHING that would ever suggest Trump would be capable of such a move. I think he might be, based on these examples and more. That's not irrational hatred.

[CJD]

(10-21-2020, 09:58 AM)PhilHos Wrote: You kidding? In 20 years, Trump's going to be interviewed by Al Roker asking what it's like to be 100 years old.

That may be true haha. As Lewis Black once said, "The good die young, but pricks live forever!"

[GMDino]

(10-21-2020, 09:53 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: If Trump loses, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Nixon-esque resignation + pre-emptive pardon.

That way, Trump doesn't have to worry about the corrupt Democrats making up crimes that he committed while in office and hounding him until his death in 5 to 10 years.

That will work for Federal crimes.  I wonder if there are state charged down the road for him.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-21-2020, 10:16 AM)GMDino Wrote: That will work for Federal crimes.  I wonder if there are state charged down the road for him.

So it's okay to go after political opponents as long as it's at the state level?

That said, I'm all in favor of punishing people for their crimes even if their politicians from the "other" party. It's just funny how people are so up in arms that Trump wants to jail political opponents because he thinks they committed crimes but have no problems going after Trump for his supposed crimes. 

[GMDino]

(10-21-2020, 10:20 AM)PhilHos Wrote: So it's okay to go after political opponents as long as it's at the state level?

That said, I'm all in favor of punishing people for their crimes even if their politicians from the "other" party. It's just funny how people are so up in arms that Trump wants to jail political opponents because he thinks they committed crimes but have no problems going after Trump for his supposed crimes. 

It's okay to pursue actual crimes.  End of sentence.

If the state of New York is investigating Trump's business dealing it doesn't have to be because he is a "political opponent" but rather because he was dumb enough to run for President and bring even more attention to the way he runs his businesses.

Something like this my have been inevitable anyway if he's really using questionable accounting but the spotlight on his dealings and past got too big for him to continue to cover it all up.

I've said repeatedly that above and beyond him being the living embodiment of the Peter Principle smart crooks/fraudsters know to keep it small or to keep moving.  Trump had it all set up in NY.  Sure they would have looked at this and that occasionally but his strategy of fighting in court until it cost too much for the other side worked for him.  Once the nation was looking at him and things started getting out of his tight control it started to fall apart.

And maybe there ISN'T anything and there will not be state charges.  If there are I don't believe the federal pardons would protect him or his family.

[hollodero]

(10-21-2020, 10:20 AM)PhilHos Wrote: So it's okay to go after political opponents as long as it's at the state level?

That said, I'm all in favor of punishing people for their crimes even if their politicians from the "other" party. It's just funny how people are so up in arms that Trump wants to jail political opponents because he thinks they committed crimes but have no problems going after Trump for his supposed crimes. 

People are "up in arms" because Trump leads chants of lock him up, lock her up, lock all of them up just because he himself has a hunch or he wants to smear people. It's not about going after actual possible crimes. You're not comparing the same thing.

[GMDino]

(10-21-2020, 10:25 AM)hollodero Wrote: People are "up in arms" because Trump leads chants of lock him up, lock her up, lock all of them up just because he himself has a hunch or he wants to smear people. It's not about going after actual possible crimes. You're not comparing the same thing.

I heard a clip this morning where Trump said the only reason people are not in jail right now is because Barr is "very fair" because he "knows people" that would have arrested people already.

[*PhilHos*]

(10-21-2020, 10:25 AM)hollodero Wrote: People are "up in arms" because Trump leads chants of lock him up, lock her up, lock all of them up just because he himself has a hunch or he wants to smear people. It's not about going after actual possible crimes. You're not comparing the same thing.

I disagree. I think Trump honestly thinks they have committed crimes, but considering you guys give Trump's intelligence far more credit than I do, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. 

[hollodero]

(10-21-2020, 10:53 AM)PhilHos Wrote: I disagree. I think Trump honestly thinks they have committed crimes

I don't know that, I haven't claimed he doesn't believe that. It's about substance, and Trump has none. That's why your comparison of states investigating and possibly indicting Trump and Trump calling for jailing his opponents fell flat, imho.

I'd like to squeeze in a question though, what would you say if Biden started leading "lock him up" chants about Trump or Don jr. or whatever Trump friends? Lock them all up? Would it matter a bit if Biden honestly believed they all are criminals and should all rot in jail? How would that make it more appropriate?

(10-21-2020, 10:53 AM)PhilHos Wrote: but considering you guys give Trump's intelligence far more credit than I do, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. 

I am not aware that I ever gave Trump's intelligence much credit. One of the most embarrassing things about him is his often displayed lack of intelligence or education, or short the just plain dumb stuff he says.

[fredtoast]

(10-21-2020, 10:20 AM)PhilHos Wrote:  It's just funny how people are so up in arms that Trump wants to jail political opponents because he thinks they committed crimes but have no problems going after Trump for his supposed crimes. 

It is just funny how you compare rank and file members of the Democratic party to the Republicans Party Leader/Presidential Candidate.  Biden and Harris are not out leading chants to lock up Trump.

Also Trump is calling for people to be locked up who have already been investigated and cleared by authorities.  That is a HUGE difference from calling for someone to be investigated.  He is basically telling his followers that law enforcement is corrupt so the citizens have to take up arms and do it themselves.  Remember when he said government officials or law enforcement could not stop Hillary but the "2nd Amendment crowd could do something to take care of her"?  Or when he told the Proud Boys to "stand by"?

He is inciting violence and encouraging vigilante action by armed militias by claiming that law enforcement won't do what is needed.

[Mickeypoo]

(10-21-2020, 05:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is just funny how you compare rank and file members of the Democratic party to the Republicans Party Leader/Presidential Candidate.  Biden and Harris are not out leading chants to lock up Trump.

Also Trump is calling for people to be locked up who have already been investigated and cleared by authorities.  That is a HUGE difference from calling for someone to be investigated.  He is basically telling his followers that law enforcement is corrupt so the citizens have to take up arms and do it themselves.  Remember when he said government officials or law enforcement could not stop Hillary but the "2nd Amendment crowd could do something to take care of her"?  Or when he told the Proud Boys to "stand by"?

He is inciting violence and encouraging vigilante action by armed militias by claiming that law enforcement won't do what is needed.

At least he is not saying that law enforcement should be disbanded.  Rhetoric that has led to actual multiple injuries and death.

You mean like the left vilify the police and cause actual injury and death?

[Mickeypoo]

(10-21-2020, 11:20 AM)hollodero Wrote: I don't know that, I haven't claimed he doesn't believe that. It's about substance, and Trump has none. That's why your comparison of states investigating and possibly indicting Trump and Trump calling for jailing his opponents fell flat, imho.

I'd like to squeeze in a question though, what would you say if Biden started leading "lock him up" chants about Trump or Don jr. or whatever Trump friends? Lock them all up? Would it matter a bit if Biden honestly believed they all are criminals and should all rot in jail? How would that make it more appropriate?



I am not aware that I ever gave Trump's intelligence much credit. One of the most embarrassing things about him is his often displayed lack of intelligence or education, or short the just plain dumb stuff he says.

Who cares?  I would probably laugh.  It's a rally.  I would literally not think twice about it.

And I bet Biden is a member of Mensa.  lmao!

[fredtoast]

(10-22-2020, 09:46 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: At least he is not saying that law enforcement should be disbanded.  Rhetoric that has led to actual multiple injuries and death.

You mean like the left vilify the police and cause actual injury and death?

Promoting police reform has not caused any injuries or deaths.

[Mickeypoo]

(10-22-2020, 01:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Promoting police reform has not caused any injuries or deaths.

Oooooooooooohhhhhhhhh, that's what the rioters and looters, people assassinating\injuring cops and injuring innocent people are doing!  Promoting police reform.  

Well golly gee shucks, I better get on over there to that them there riot and help burn down a police station to promote police reform!  Gee heck, maybe I can help trap police inside so they can burn to death also!

[Nati#1]

TRUMP 2020

[*Nately120*]

(10-22-2020, 02:19 PM)Nati#1 Wrote: TRUMP 2020

I LIKE IKE

[BigPapaKain]

(10-22-2020, 09:46 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: At least he is not saying that law enforcement should be disbanded.  Rhetoric that has led to actual multiple injuries and death.

You mean like the left vilify the police and cause actual injury and death?

Bro if you think the left is villifying the police, you haven't been paying attention to the shit the police have been doing. Or, worse, you see it and just don't care.

[GMDino]

(10-22-2020, 03:11 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I LIKE IKE

MITCHELL!

[Mickeypoo]

(10-22-2020, 05:03 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Bro if you think the left is villifying the police, you haven't been paying attention to the shit the police have been doing. Or, worse, you see it and just don't care.

Of course it happens.  There are bad people in all professions.  Does not mean the entire profession is systemically racist.

They also have to police violent, high crime areas that are made up of a huge minority population.  Of course bad things are going to happen occasionally.

[*Nately120*]

(10-23-2020, 12:28 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: They also have to police violent, high crime areas that are made up of a huge minority population.  Of course bad things are going to happen occasionally.

You say this and yet you want to overturn Roe v Wade...the mind boggles.