Is Heroin This Bad EVERYWHERE?

[fredtoast]

(02-25-2016, 01:47 PM)Au165 Wrote: Maybe this will help you fred, in some states cops are not allowed to arrest people who call 911 for assistance on overdoses including those who overdosed.

And this may help you out.  EVERY state has a law against misuse of 911.  And if you call the police before you overdose that would get you arrested.

I googled and found nothing.  Seems like there would be something out there somewhere to back up your claim other than myths.

[Au165]

(02-25-2016, 02:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And this may help you out.  EVERY state has a law against misuse of 911.  And if you call the police before you overdose that would get you arrested.

I googled and found nothing.  Seems like there would be something out there somewhere to back up your claim other than myths.

"To encourage people to seek medical attention for an overdose or for follow-up care after naloxone has been administered, 34 states and the District of Columbia have enacted some form of a Good Samaritan or 911 drug immunity law. These laws generally provide immunity from supervision violations and low level drug possession and use offenses when a person who is either experiencing or observing an opiate-related overdose calls 911 for assistance or otherwise seeks medical attention for themselves or another."

So I have the same story from multiple law enforcement contacts, and laws in 34 states that say it is very possible for this to happen. Want to try again?

[fredtoast]

(02-25-2016, 03:45 PM)Au165 Wrote:


"To encourage people to seek medical attention for an overdose or for follow-up care after naloxone has been administered, 34 states and the District of Columbia have enacted some form of a Good Samaritan or 911 drug immunity law. These laws generally provide immunity from supervision violations and low level drug possession and use offenses when a person who is either experiencing or observing an opiate-related overdose calls 911 for assistance or otherwise seeks medical attention for themselves or another."

So I have the same story from multiple law enforcement contacts, and laws in 34 states that say it is very possible for this to happen. Want to try again?

I never denied there were good Samaritan laws

Do I need to post a big map showing that every state has a law against misuse of 911.

Even if a person did this they would never admit it to a law enforcement officer.

[Au165]

(02-25-2016, 04:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I never denied there were good Samaritan laws

Do I need to post a big map showing that every state has a law against misuse of 911.

Even if a person did this they would never admit it to a law enforcement officer.

It is just an urban myth.

You said they would be arrested, that is false. In 34 states they are granted varying immunity for calling 911 IN REGARDS TO OVERDOSING even if they are the ones committing the crime. It is not misuse of 911 it is actually an encouraged use to end deaths from over dosing. These are separate from general good Samaritan laws. They can freely admit it because they have immunity and they know it.

This is you refusing to admit you were wrong, sorry Fred you are wrong. I'll take the word of police officers in different stats telling the same story over you.

[fredtoast]

(02-25-2016, 04:06 PM)Au165 Wrote: You said they would be arrested, that is false. In 34 states they are granted varying immunity for calling 911 IN REGARDS TO OVERDOSING even if they are the ones committing the crime. It is not misuse of 911 it is actually an encouraged use to end deaths from over dosing. These are separate from general good Samaritan laws. They can freely admit it because they have immunity and they know it.

This is you refusing to admit you were wrong, sorry Fred you are wrong.

None of it makes any sense.  Addicts don't just shoot up once a month, and they never plan on OD'ing.  Do they call the police everyday?  and what happens if they don't OD?  what do theyb tell the police when they show up.  

And basically the addict would be wasting a shot, and that is something addict NEVER do.  why waste a shot for just a couple of minutes of high before the cops come and ruin it.

Cops don't like helping these people that OD so they make up lies about them.  I have no doubt some cop may have told you this, but that does not make it true.

[fredtoast]

What state do you live in AU?

[fredtoast]

(02-25-2016, 04:06 PM)Au165 Wrote: You said they would be arrested, that is false. In 34 states they are granted varying immunity for calling 911 IN REGARDS TO OVERDOSING even if they are the ones committing the crime. It is not misuse of 911 it is actually an encouraged use to end deaths from over dosing.

They have immunity from reporting a legit overdose.  They don't have immunity from calling and claiming there was an overdose before they even shoot up.

And even if they don't get arrested addicts do not want to announce to law enforcement that they are drug addicts.

[Au165]

(02-25-2016, 04:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: None of it makes any sense.  Addicts don't just shoot up once a month, and they never plan on OD'ing.  Do they call the police everyday?  and what happens if they don't OD?  what do theyb tell the police when they show up.  

And basically the addict would be wasting a shot, and that is something addict NEVER do.  why waste a shot for just a couple of minutes of high before the cops come and ruin it.

Cops don't like helping these people that OD so they make up lies about them.  I have no doubt some cop may have told you this, but that does not make it true.

It may not make sense to you, but you are making a lot of your own assumptions in your statements to convince yourself it doesn't make sense. In the cases I was told about the people know they require such a large dose to get high that there is a good chance they will OD, however they still want the high. While that doesn't sound rationale it shows how powerful addiction is. Many don't want to die, but they want the high even if only for 5 or 10 minutes.

Has nothing to do with not wanting to help them. In all the cases I was given a similar story, they simply didn't want it advertised they carried the drug. They would still help them, they just don't want it to be taken advantage of.

[Au165]

(02-25-2016, 04:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: They have immunity from reporting a legit overdose.  They don't have immunity from calling and claiming there was an overdose before they even shoot up.

And even if they don't get arrested addicts do not want to announce to law enforcement that they are drug addicts.

They can't prove they hadn't overdosed before they called. Sorry Fred you are just making assumptions I am telling you first hand experiences from people I trust in the LE community.

[Au165]

(02-25-2016, 04:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What state do you live in AU?

I live in Ohio, however I deal with departments in every state in the U.S. including regular visits and trade shows around the country.

[fredtoast]

(02-25-2016, 04:16 PM)Au165 Wrote: In the cases I was told about the people know they require such a large dose to get high that there is a good chance they will OD, however they still want the high. While that doesn't sound rationale it shows how powerful addiction is. Many don't want to die, but they want the high even if only for 5 or 10 minutes.

And they do this every day?

What happens when they don't OD?

I have dealt with a lot of drug addicts.  they don't want the police to know they are using.  the only way they would ever call the police is if it was a life and death situation.  They certainly would not call the police in advance and announce that they are a drug addict just on the chance they might OD.

[fredtoast]

(02-25-2016, 04:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: They can't prove they hadn't overdosed before they called

How could they make the call if they had already ODed?

But at least you seem to be agreeing with me that they would never admit it to police even if they did it.

[fredtoast]

(02-25-2016, 04:17 PM)Au165 Wrote: They can't prove they hadn't overdosed before they called. Sorry Fred you are just making assumptions I am telling you first hand experiences from people I trust in the LE community.

You are telling me stories you have heard.  I have no doubt that you have probably heard this before.

I am telling you that those stories are not believable.  

[Au165]

(02-25-2016, 04:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And they do this every day?

What happens when they don't OD?

I have dealt with a lot of drug addicts.  they don't want the police to know they are using.  the only way they would ever call the police is if it was a life and death situation.  They certainly would not call the police in advance and announce that they are a drug addict just on the chance they might OD.

Immunity is granted to anyone acting in good faith that they think an OD is imminent (on them or on someone else). They don't have to OD they just have to tell 911 they think they may OD. I am sorry you don't like it, but these are accounts from LE officials in states on different sides of the country. Stories are too similar to think it is just made up. They literally have no reason to lie especially when they say they don't mind doing it just wish it wasn't as publicized. You also said you "guaranteed" that on the TSA checks no one ever got bombs through, which was false. You make a lot of assumptions based on nothing but your own opinion that are false. Remember you explaining that zone defense didn't exist?

[fredtoast]

(02-25-2016, 04:26 PM)Au165 Wrote: They literally have no reason to lie 

Proof of your bias.

They don't like helping people that OD.  They don't like people who use drugs.

[Au165]

(02-25-2016, 04:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are telling me stories you have heard.  I have no doubt that you have probably heard this before.

I am telling you that those stories are not believable.  

On a  side note: It does appear that in Tennessee they only allow the immunity for the first time. Which is good that way it doesn't become a game. I don't think that is the case in all states though.

[Au165]

(02-25-2016, 04:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Proof of your bias.

They don't like helping people that OD.

I was saying these people had no reason to lie to me, it was a side conversation in an infoprmal setting (usually at a bar after shows or after a meeting). Your claim is an indefensible over generalization. That is like saying all cops hate black people, or all lawyers are liars. Neither are true, but could sometimes be true. This really feels like you resorting to a "brad-esque" argument.

[fredtoast]

(02-25-2016, 04:38 PM)Au165 Wrote: I was saying these people had no reason to lie to me, it was a side conversation in an infoprmal setting (usually at a bar after shows or after a meeting). Your claim is an indefensible over generalization.  That is like saying all cops hate black people, or all lawyers are liars. Neither are true, but could sometimes be true. This really feels like you resorting to a "brad-esque" argument.

My claim has no more to do with saying "All cops hate black people" than you saying "No cop would ever lie about criminals."

I deal with police every day.  They don't like drug users or criminals in general.  That explains why they might lie about them.  If you don't believe a police officer would ever lie then you are just naive.

All I know is that addicts take extreme measures to keep the police from knowing they are drug users.  i just can not believe that they are calling the police and announcing that they are drug addicts.  In fact the police I know would be thrilled to be getting all this free confidential information.  So they would not be complaining about it.

[Au165]

(02-25-2016, 04:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My claim has no more to do with saying "All cops hate black people" than you saying "No cop would ever lie about criminals."

I deal with police every day.  They don't like drug users or criminals in general.  That explains why they might lie about them.  If you don't believe a police officer would ever lie then you are just naive.

I never said no cop would. I said there was no reason in a private setting to lie to me. I then combined that with multiple stories of great detail with similar circumstances to believe it's a real problem. This is also probably the reason that Tennessee has a one time immunity. I'm glad you at least stopped saying they would be arrested when the law specifically says they wouldn't. I really would think you'd know that, especially with it being a law in Tennessee.

[NATI BENGALS]

The scary thing is the pills that are made to look like normal pills but are really made out of heroin. Ive seen that story twice in the news in cincy.

So the curious high school kid who may try a perscription drug could actually be getting a fat dose of heroin. That is going to crank out a lot of new addicts.

Im sick of seeing these people treated with kid gloves. It pisses me off we waste money and effort fighting weed when all those resources should be used combating more harmful drugs.

Survival of the fittest is getting ruined with this narcan too. Sorry my heart isnt that big. It is a choice. You dont become an addict over night with severe chemical dependency. Its not a secret the shit ruins your life. They choose to do it. They pursued it.

Now instead of fighting crime and protecting the innocent or saving the life of someone in need of actual medical care we have cops and emts screwing around saving a junky.