Is Zac Really Happy With Irv Smith & Drew Sample

[Daddy-O]

(04-18-2023, 09:00 PM)ah5 Wrote: Please stop the TE crap in the first... Grab a db or lineman and not waste it on someone getting 3 targets a game.

I understand that logic but you have to think long term and if they are able to sign both Higgins and Chase. That would be an indicator that the slot targets that Boyd gets will become more important once his contract is up.  Boyd will not get another contract and there are no guarantees they find a slot player of his caliber.  A good TE can fill that void.

[Bengalbug]

(04-19-2023, 09:49 AM)Daddy-O Wrote: I understand that logic but you have to think long term and if they are able to sign both Higgins and Chase. That would be an indicator that the slot targets that Boyd gets will become more important once his contract is up.  Boyd will not get another contract and there are no guarantees they find a slot player of his caliber.  A good TE can fill that void.

Historically, there is no correlation to where a tight end is drafted and the success he has in the NFL.

Hayden hurst (1)
mark andrews (3)
Travis kelce (3)
Eifert (1)
gronk (2)
Kittle (5)
Jason witten (3)
Antonio gates (undrafted)
Gresham (1)
Waller (6)


I could go on and on. It would almost be better to double dip on tight end later in the draft to increase your chances of hitting a home run.

[TheFan]

(04-19-2023, 09:08 AM)jj22 Wrote: Mayer is slow, unathletic, and can't separate. He doesn't bring anything to this offense we didn't get from Wilcox (for how we use TE's in this system).

I think I'm going to take the word of numerous well known evaluators who disagree with all of that. He's not the fastest or the best athlete in the class but there's a reason he's regarded as one if not the top TE in the class. He has a very similar athletic profile to Mark Andrews and Mayer is considered a good route runner who knows how to use his body and can win 1 on 1.  He may not get seperation on straight line routes but he can set his man up with moves. Plus he's an able enough blocker which is a big part of how the Bengals use them.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-18-2023, 09:00 PM)ah5 Wrote: Please stop the TE crap in the first... Grab a db or lineman and not waste it on someone getting 3 targets a game.

Hayden Hurst was targeted an average of 5.0 times per game 
Only 16 TEs were targets more per game on average.
Kelce, Hockenson, and Andrews were the only ones targeted an average of 7.0 or more.

For comparison with Bengals WRs, Chase was targeted 10.3 times per game, Higgins 7.3, and Boyd 4.9.

[THE PISTONS]

(04-18-2023, 09:00 PM)ah5 Wrote: Please stop the TE crap in the first... Grab a db or lineman and not waste it on someone getting 3 targets a game.

Agreed. The team has A LOT of needs at premium positions. Drafting a TE is kind of a waste.

[Frank Booth]

You can live with the big 3 and Irv Smith as the starting TE

What you can’t live with is finishing bottom 10 in yards per carry for the 5th straight year

[THE PISTONS]

(04-19-2023, 12:48 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: You can live with the big 3 and Irv Smith as the starting TE

What you can’t live with is finishing bottom 10 in yards per carry

Mixon was pretty bad at breaking tackles this past season. While the blocking was bad, he didn't help himself.

[jj22]

(04-19-2023, 11:17 AM)TheFan Wrote: I think I'm going to take the word of numerous well known evaluators who disagree with all of that. He's not the fastest or the best athlete in the class but there's a reason he's regarded as one if not the top TE in the class. He has a very similar athletic profile to Mark Andrews and Mayer is considered a good route runner who knows how to use his body and can win 1 on 1.  He may not get seperation on straight line routes but he can set his man up with moves. Plus he's an able enough blocker which is a big part of how the Bengals use them.

You sure they disagree with me? Sounds like they are saying the same thing as I did......

[jj22]

(04-19-2023, 09:14 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I think you are being a little harsh here.  

I'm just saying what everyone has acknowledged about Mayer already. He can't separate, isn't athletic, and slow.... 


But he is a "football player". Which I hear as "but she has a good personality". Which she may, and that is something to hang a hat on if you can get past everything else. Are we getting past everything else at 28? I don't prefer to have to at 28. 2nd round (of shots), maybe... That's when you ignore all else.

[Bengalbug]

(04-19-2023, 01:04 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm just saying what everyone has acknowledged about Mayer already. He can't separate, isn't athletic, and slow.... 


But he is a "football player". Which I hear as "but she has a good personality". Which she may, and is something to hang a hat on if you can get past everything else. Are we getting past everything else at 28? I don't prefer to have to at 28.

Why did you omit the rest?

[jj22]

What else did you want me to comment on...

[TheFan]

(04-19-2023, 12:59 PM)jj22 Wrote: jj22
You sure they disagree with me? Sounds like they are saying the same thing as I did......

You seem like you're being willfully ignorant and using all or nothing thinking. Just because he's not an elite athlete doesn't mean he's unathletic, just because he's not the fastest TE doesn't mean he's slow, and juts because he won't run by a safety doesn't mean he can' get separation/make catches. There's a reason most evaluators have him going in the first round and it's not because he's some oaf. Below is just from the first few evaluations which all pretty much the same thing. He's good to above average at pretty much everything with no glaring weaknesses compared to pretty much everyone else. I don't even think we should take TE in the first round but your assertions of him as a player are asinine. I would be fine taking an athletic freak TE in rounds 3-5

"Mayer’s NFL Combine measurements highlight the lack of elite athletic ability, which we’ll address shortly. However, he’s by no means deficient in this area. No, he won’t win any straight-line races. However, he does showcase quick feet on release and has the lateral agility to change direction quickly. As a result, he can create some separation both on release and when breaking from his route."

"Mayer plays with smoothness and balance, and Mayer shows a knack for setting up defensive backs. Good quickness off the snap. Has good speed for the position to attack the seam. Shows burst out of his breaks to gain separation."

"I have seen him continue to show nuance by utilizing his size to bump and create extra separation but he isn’t likely going to be a run-away athlete. He’s a nightmare to wrangle at the catch point but his quarterback is going to need consistent accuracy when charged with man coverage"

"Tremendous ball skills and contested-catch ability. Mismatch target in the middle of the field"

"Great size to make contested catches and sustain blocks. Soft hands to snatch passes away from his frame"

"While not possessing elite length, the combination of his size and decent length allow him to consistently make catches above the rim. He also showcases good technique as a pass catcher, plucking the ball away from his frame with regularity while being an impressive ball tracker." 

Gronk ran a 4.67. Mark Andrews ran at 4.67. Dallas Goedert ran a 4.69. Meyer ran a 4.70. 

[Frank Booth]

Mayer is the TE equivalent to Jonah Williams. Pro ready, very sound, but the high ceiling isnt there.

Solid when healthy, but will prob never make a pro bowl

You dont want to spend a 1st round pick on that

[TheFan]

(04-19-2023, 02:06 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Mayer is the TE equivalent to Jonah Williams. Pro ready, very sound, but the high ceiling isnt there.

Solid when healthy, but will prob never make a pro bowl

You dont want to spend a 1st round pick on that

Isn't that most guys who are end of 1st round picks, regardless of position?

[higgy100]

(04-19-2023, 03:14 PM)TheFan Wrote: Isn't that most guys who are end of 1st round picks, regardless of position?

It's true of 99% of players that play the game. Frank is clueless here.

[Frank Booth]

(04-19-2023, 03:24 PM)higgy100 Wrote: It's true of 99% of players that play the game. Frank is clueless here.

We're talking about the draft here. It's all speculating about potential. why not grab a tight end with a higher ceiling? 

[TheFan]

(04-19-2023, 03:29 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: We're talking about the draft here. It's all speculating about potential. why not grab a tight end with a higher ceiling? 

It could be argued they have a much lower floor and may be out of the league in a couple years. All indicators point to Mayer being the most stable pick, at TE. If you can get a Gresham/Witten type player at pick 28 that's worth it imo. Again, I don't think we should pick him depending on who else is available but a solid TE for 5 years isn't the worst thing ever. 

[Frank Booth]

(04-19-2023, 03:53 PM)TheFan Wrote: It could be argued they have a much lower floor and may be out of the league in a couple years. All indicators point to Mayer being the most stable pick, at TE. If you can get a Gresham type player at pick 28 that's worth it imo. Again, I don't think we should pick him depending on who else I'd available but a solid TE for 5 years isn't the worst thing ever. 

oh, I dont want a tight end in the first round either. Count me out

[jj22]

(04-19-2023, 02:02 PM)TheFan Wrote: You seem like you're being willfully ignorant and using all or nothing thinking. 

I just bolded where they said the same things I said about him...... Which they did. That's it.

[wanga]

(04-19-2023, 02:06 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Mayer is the TE equivalent to Jonah Williams. Pro ready, very sound, but the high ceiling isnt there.

Solid when healthy, but will prob never make a pro bowl

You dont want to spend a 1st round pick on that

I thought you said pro bowls were a worthless evaluation of a player.