Jan. 1, 2024 twenty two states raise minimum wage + California $20 fast food in April

[Luvnit2]

Minimum wage is much like abortion, it has become a state issue as federal minimum wage has been far surpassed in most states on the state level. Ohio will force businesses to pay $10.45 an hour for 16 and 17 year olds and all adults. Only 14 and 15 year olds can be paid the lesser federal minimum wage.

1. Do you think it makes sense to force businesses to start 16 and 17 year olds at $10.45 and hour, same as adults who support themselves or families?
2. If yes, do you think this could impact businesses paying the adults less to counter paying minors who have less availability of hours they can work due to minor labor laws?
3. Do you see businesses racing to eliminate jobs with technology and/or robots?

On a side note, California has targeted fast food restaurants to pay all employees a minimum of $20 per hour on April 1, 2024. Their minimum wage for others is a little over $16 an hour. McDonald's is on record saying this will cost one restaurant over $250,000 a year. They can only raise prices so much to offset these headwinds.

As we battle inflation woes do you think the added wages will help inflation and employment participation, hurt it or have no impact?

[SunsetBengal]

(12-29-2023, 04:28 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Minimum wage is much like abortion, it has become a state issue as federal minimum wage has been far surpassed in most states on the state level. Ohio will force businesses to pay $10.45 an hour for 16 and 17 year olds and all adults. Only 14 and 15 year olds can be paid the lesser federal minimum wage.

1. Do you think it makes sense to force businesses to start 16 and 17 year olds at $10.45 and hour, same as adults who support themselves or families?
2. If yes, do you think this could impact businesses paying the adults less to counter paying minors who have less availability of hours they can work due to minor labor laws?
3. Do you see businesses racing to eliminate jobs with technology and/or robots?

On a side note, California has targeted fast food restaurants to pay all employees a minimum of $20 per hour on April 1, 2024. Their minimum wage for others is a little over $16 an hour. McDonald's is on record saying this will cost one restaurant over $250,000 a year. They can only raise prices so much to offset these headwinds.

As we battle inflation woes do you think the added wages will help inflation and employment participation, hurt it or have no impact?

With regard to your portion as it pertains to Ohio I say;  Yes, any kid willing to go and do the work should receive the full pay of that job.  I remember working hard as a teenager, back when the minimum wage was much, much lower.  If there are grown adults attempting to support other humans on minimum wage jobs, those folks should really re-evaluate their career trajectory and consider getting some more marketable skills.

To 3. Yes, I absolutely foresee full or nearly fully automated fast food locations in the near future.

[*Nately120*]

(12-29-2023, 04:28 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: 3. Do you see businesses racing to eliminate jobs with technology and/or robots?

That happens regardless, I'd wager.  I live in PA and minimum wage here is $7.50 and when you go to Wal Mart there are 30+ self checkouts and maybe 1 or 2 actual cashiers who will scan things for you.  Our McDonalds and Taco Bell has screens/kiosks to take your order, stuff like that. Hell, one of the functions I did at my job which is considered a part of national security is being automated because it can, and we make less per hour than a burger flipper in CA.

I told my buddy's 10 year old son that when I was a kid when you went to a gas station a person was there to pump your gas and even do some routine stuff on your car while you waited and he looked at me like I was part insane and part fossil.

(12-29-2023, 07:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If there are grown adults attempting to support other humans on minimum wage jobs, those folks should really re-evaluate their career trajectory and consider getting some more marketable skills.

The issue with that is that if the only people working service jobs are under 18, nothing will be open during the day or after 9pm or so.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-29-2023, 08:26 PM)Nately120 Wrote: That happens regardless, I'd wager.  I live in PA and minimum wage here is $7.50 and when you go to Wal Mart there are 30+ self checkouts and maybe 1 or 2 actual cashiers who will scan things for you.  Hell, one of the functions I did at my job which is considered a part of national security is being automated because it can, and we make less per hour than a burger flipper in CA.

I told my buddy's 10 year old son that when I was a kid when you went to a gas station a person was there to pump your gas and even do some routine stuff on your car while you waited and he looked at me like I was part insane and part fossil.



The issue with that is that if the only people working service jobs are under 18, nothing will be open during the day or after 9pm or so.

Aye, yay yay.  I remember working closing shifts until after midnight on school nights.  Granted, they rotated the shifts and tried to avoid putting school agers as closers, but sometimes it did happen.

[*Nately120*]

(12-29-2023, 08:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Aye, yay yay.  I remember working closing shifts until after midnight on school nights.  Granted, they rotated the shifts and tried to avoid putting school agers as closers, but sometimes it did happen.

I recall working until 11pm at the local Giant Eagle when I was in high school, too.  It didn't kill me.  With that being said, it's funny that old grumpy people like us who tend to hate the absolute guts of anyone who is under 18 think service jobs should be for teens and not long-term employed adults.

If I walk into any place that provides service and everyone working there is like 16 years old I'm just going to assume things aren't going smoothly.  I remember being 16, I wasn't ultra helpful, nor ultra into spending my time serving people.


Fun side story, when I was 16 and worked as a grocery bagger at Giant Eagle (a job that was completely eliminated even though the workforce never unionized nor got a raise) there was an old woman who told me she needed sugar free ice cream for her diabetic husband.  The manager, who was like 19, sent me off to the freezer with her to find some.  I told her I found some ice cream that said "NO SUGAR ADDED" and she asked me if that meant sugar free and I told her "I don't know, I'm 16 years old and I don't know anything about diabetes."  She seemed pretty pissed, but she bought the ice cream.  She probably gave it to her husband and it killed him or something.

[NATI BENGALS]

Ai and robots is a ticking time bomb imo.

Amazon and Walmart killed Main Street and all the jobs that people used to have and make a decent living that went with it. A lot of people started working the warehouse jobs. Now robots and Ai will be taking the warehouse jobs next.

Hell even writers and artists are in danger of getting replaced by Ai. Why pay somebody a bunch of money to write product descriptions or design packaging or a sign when I can write a sentence and Ai can do it all.

We need politicians who try to solve problems. Because this stuff is only accelerating. And I think whoever wins in 2024 is going to have to deal with higher unemployment as more and more jobs get automated.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-29-2023, 08:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I recall working until 11pm at the local Giant Eagle when I was in high school, too.  It didn't kill me.  With that being said, it's funny that old grumpy people like us who tend to hate the absolute guts of anyone who is under 18 think service jobs should be for teens and not long-term employed adults.

If I walk into any place that provides service and everyone working there is like 16 years old I'm just going to assume things aren't going smoothly.  I remember being 16, I wasn't ultra helpful, nor ultra into spending my time serving people.


Fun side story, when I was 16 and worked as a grocery bagger at Giant Eagle (a job that was completely eliminated even though the workforce never unionized nor got a raise) there was an old woman who told me she needed sugar free ice cream for her diabetic husband.  The manager, who was like 19, sent me off to the freezer with her to find some.  I told her I found some ice cream that said "NO SUGAR ADDED" and she asked me if that meant sugar free and I told her "I don't know, I'm 16 years old and I don't know anything about diabetes."  She seemed pretty pissed, but she bought the ice cream.  She probably gave it to her husband and it killed him or something.

Don't we have immigrants for those duties??  

[*Nately120*]

(12-29-2023, 08:57 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Hell even writers and artists are in danger of getting replaced by Ai. Why pay somebody a bunch of money to write product descriptions or design packaging or a sign when I can write a sentence and Ai can do it all.

Call me selfish, but if free Ai is willing to write a story where 4 supermodels and I engage in an oil wrasslin' match whereas any real writer tells me to seek counseling and/or charges money, it's worth the eventual fall of society.

[NATI BENGALS]

https://abc7.com/pizza-hut-layoffs-california-delivery-drivers-fast-food-minimum-wage/14229041/

Pizza Hut laying off hundreds of delivery drivers in California because of the pay requirement.

But don’t worry. They are already hard at work on self driving cars and autonomous delivery.

[*Nately120*]

(12-29-2023, 09:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Don't we have immigrants for those duties??  

The only immigrants that we should let into this country are the ones who let creepy incels like me live out their power-differential fantasy of owning a slave-wife.


Back to that ice cream story, I made $5.15 an hour back then so for that 5 minutes I was helping that old lady Giant Eagle basically paid me 43 cents to give her what may have amounted to medical advice.  If she and her husband survived long after that, let me tell them you get what you pay for.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-29-2023, 09:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The only immigrants that we should let into this country are the ones who let creepy incels like me live out their power-differential fantasy of owning a slave-wife.


Back to that ice cream story, I made $5.15 an hour back then so for that 5 minutes I was helping that old lady Giant Eagle basically paid me 43 cents to give her what may have amounted to medical advice.  If she and her husband survived long after that, let me tell them you get what you pay for.

Man, you had it so good.  Minimum was $3.35 when I started working.  I felt a sense of pride when I became 'head' dishwasher at the restaurant in the local Holiday Inn, as it commanded a whopping $4.00 per hr.!  Nevermind that they held dinner theater for six weekends throughout the holiday season, which typically meant being there until 1:30am..  After that, I was feeling so superior to land a job at a factory that made rubber bed mats for pickups and mud flaps for semis, it started at $6.00/hr.  I felt like king of the world, until I rented a 3 br house that cost $450/mo.  Good times..

[Luvnit2]

(12-29-2023, 09:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Man, you had it so good.  Minimum was $3.35 when I started working.  I felt a sense of pride when I became 'head' dishwasher at the restaurant in the local Holiday Inn, as it commanded a whopping $4.00 per hr.!  Nevermind that they held dinner theater for six weekends throughout the holiday season, which typically meant being there until 1:30am..  After that, I was feeling so superior to land a job at a factory that made rubber bed mats for pickups and mud flaps for semis, it started at $6.00/hr.  I felt like king of the world, until I rented a 3 br house that cost $450/mo.  Good times..

I worked at a local dairy bar that sold everything from Pizza, Burgers, Fried Chicken and lots of ice cream products. I started at age 15 for yes a whopping $1.65 an hour. They scheduled me to close every Friday and Saturday night, worked until 1:30 to 2 a.m. I quit and next worked at a country club washing dishes for $1.80 an hour and then was promoted to a waiter, I made $1.50 an hour plus tips, ended up being around $5.00 an hour.

I got a job my senior year working at Kroger making $2.75 an hour working overnight from 11 p.m. to 6 a.m. stocking shelves. I went to school after I ate breakfast, but was out of school at 10;30 a.m. due to a work/study program. I went to Krogers (i was a senior, but only 17 years old) because I got married in January and Kroger's after 90 days you were able to join the union with a $8.50 wage and full insurance benefits. They fired me soon after my 18th birthday at 88 days. I found out later it was something Kroger did to keep overall wages and benefits down.

I was a unique minor, had a wife and child due in September. Minimum wage jobs were a way to prove yourself as a minor or an adult, a starting wage and many like me took a minimum wage job into management and in my case became and owner of the same business I started in as a manager trainee for $2.85 an hour.

I still believe the American dream exists, but young people need to do what many of us did, take low paying jobs and excel, be. the best, make sacrifices, work the crappy shifts including nights and weekends. I see too many young people unwilling to start at the bottom and work their way to the top. 

[*pally*]

If teens and adults do the same work they deserve the same entry pay. The argument that the adult needs money to support a household has echos of the time when they used the excuse “they have a family to support” to justify paying men more than women. A long time practice that is still felt today.

If a company’s profits exist only because they low ball their employees pay then maybe they shouldn’t be in business at all. Paying employees less than a living wage reeks of sweat shop labor practices.

[Arturo Bandini]

Why young people have to make sacrifices because some people did ?

Isn't our life purpose is to make it easier for our kids than it was for us ?

Unless you somehow enjoy to see other people struggling.

Who cares if it was hard for the old ones ? My grandfather made WWII ? Does that mean I have to go to war too ?

[Luvnit2]

(12-30-2023, 10:01 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Why young people have to make sacrifices because some people did ?

Isn't our life purpose is to make it easier for our kids than it was for us ?

Unless you somehow enjoy to see other people struggling.

Who cares if it was hard for the old ones ? My grandfather made WWII ? Does that mean I have to go to war too ?

I think you have never been in business. It is not about today's youth and entry worker's need to pay the same price for success s we did. 

It is about should minors (no, they do have limitations and can't legally work the same hours or in some cases same jobs as adults due to minor labor laws) start at the same minimum wage as adults? The end result is adults end up making less money and/or worse benefits because businesses have to pay minors like bread winners. 

A business owner has a responsibility to make a profit so their employees keep their job. Any smart business owner has benefits and starting wages competitive in their industry. To suggest a minor making a starting wage (yes good working minors can get raises too) of almost $11.00 an hour in the US is slave labor is crazy.

If you were a business owner, would you rather pay adult  employees who can come in at 5 a.m. or work overnight more than a minor? Simply, being forced to start both at the same wage many businesses can't do both so they are forced to cut adult wages and benefits to compensate to stay in business.

[basballguy]

(12-29-2023, 08:57 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Ai and robots is a ticking time bomb imo.

Amazon and Walmart killed Main Street and all the jobs that people used to have and make a decent living that went with it. A lot of people started working the warehouse jobs. Now robots and Ai will be taking the warehouse jobs next.

Hell even writers and artists are in danger of getting replaced by Ai. Why pay somebody a bunch of money to write product descriptions or design packaging or a sign when I can write a sentence and Ai can do it all.

We need politicians who try to solve problems. Because this stuff is only accelerating. And I think whoever wins in 2024 is going to have to deal with higher unemployment as more and more jobs get automated.

False. The typewriter came along and made people more efficient at their jobs while eliminating the easy/repeatable tasks. Same for the calculator. Same for the computer. Same for automation. Shoot you can make this argument as far back as the wheel.

The same will be true for AI/ML.

These are tools to help us do our jobs better while eliminating the repeatable/boring/mundane things.

[basballguy]

(12-29-2023, 09:02 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: https://abc7.com/pizza-hut-layoffs-california-delivery-drivers-fast-food-minimum-wage/14229041/

Pizza Hut laying off hundreds of delivery drivers in California because of the pay requirement.

But don’t worry. They are already hard at work on self driving cars and autonomous delivery.

And with the elimination of the delivery driver using their own car comes the introduction of new jobs where you need mechanics, software engineers, product managers, fleet managers, and so on.

This is a good thing

[Millhouse]

If Ohio ever implements a fast-food minimum wage which would most likely effect the cost of the food, then I want:

No screwups on drive thru orders.
Fresh as possible fries.
Food looks like it does in commercials.
And not sitting at the second drive-thru order screen as three cars go thru the other one.

[Belsnickel]

(12-29-2023, 08:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Aye, yay yay.  I remember working closing shifts until after midnight on school nights.  Granted, they rotated the shifts and tried to avoid putting school agers as closers, but sometimes it did happen.

Yeah, that's illegal in some states these days.

[Belsnickel]

We don't want to pay people, we don't want to have an adequate social safety net, we don't want to tax the corporations to pay for the pitiful social safety net required for the impoverished workers they higher and we subsidize for them, we complain about the amount of debt our society is burdened with...

Just seems like a lot of these problems are related in some way. I just can't quite put my finger on it.