Joe Biden lies exposed.Karine Jean-Pierre last week lies again also.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-10-2023, 01:46 PM)Dill Wrote: ?? If what had been handled correctly, by whom? Trump's ask was not an "inquiry."

You mean Joe's leveraged $1B in aid to Ukraine if they didn't fire Shokin to get him off of Burisma's executives arses when Hunter was one?

(09-10-2023, 02:35 PM)Dill Wrote: I haven't seen any evidence that HB was interested in his own political career. 

And as I understand it, VPs often take their families on foreign trips. E.g., Joe often took his grandchildren with him on
"business" trips abroad as VP. 

But what, exactly, was in the news? It looks like HB was on the board of or an investor in a Chinese equity company, and he
jointed while Biden was out of office and before he had decided to run for office.
In the debate, Biden is responding to the accusation that Hunter got 1.5 billion from China. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/biden-s-trip-china-son-hunter-2013-comes-under-new-n1061051
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/03/30/hunter-biden-china-laptop/

Already said he doesn't appear interested in Politics so why did he come along? 

Grandkids? No problems with Grandkids coming along, They actually are sight seeing.

In 2013, then-Vice President Biden and his son Hunter flew aboard Air Force Two to China. Ten days later, Hunter Biden’s firm scored a $1.5 BILLION deal with a subsidiary of the Chinese government’s Bank of China.


The 1.5B is a bit off, Trump is the one that made that claim, however, it took them 10 months for BHR (the company Hunter was part of) to raise 1B for investing in Sinopec Marketing Co LTD, in 2015 there was another big investment for about 500M, this is probably where Trump is calling it a 1.5B trip.

Was it Legal/Illegal? NO idea, that's not for us to decide as we don't have all the details necessary to make the proper call, however it was definitely an ethics issue.

[Dill]

(09-14-2023, 09:38 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You mean Joe's leveraged $1B in aid to Ukraine if they didn't fire Shokin to get him off of Burisma's executives arses when Hunter was one?

LOL you've not been following my posts to Luvnit on this topic. As noted above in my post to LSUfan on the HSGAC, it was THE UNITED STATES
that was leveraging 1 Billion in aid to Ukraine. '

And the reason the US, the EU and IMF wanted Shokin fired was precisely because he was doing nothing about Burisma. 

(09-14-2023, 09:38 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Already said he doesn't appear interested in Politics so why did he come along? 
Grandkids? No problems with Grandkids coming along, They actually are sight seeing.

In 2013, then-Vice President Biden and his son Hunter flew aboard Air Force Two to China. Ten days later, Hunter Biden’s firm scored a $1.5 BILLION deal with a subsidiary of the Chinese government’s Bank of China.

The 1.5B is a bit off, Trump is the one that made that claim, however, it took them 10 months for BHR (the company Hunter was part of) to raise 1B for investing in Sinopec Marketing Co LTD, in 2015 there was another big investment for about 500M, this is probably where Trump is calling it a 1.5B trip.
Was it Legal/Illegal? NO idea, that's not for us to decide as we don't have all the details necessary to make the proper call, however it was definitely an ethics issue.

1.5 Billion is way off. That's roughly the investment funding Kushner drew from Saudi Arabia.

We do have an idea if Hunter's money from China or Burisma was illegal since investigations so far have come up empty. 

I agree that its an ethics issue, though. Very improper.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-14-2023, 11:12 AM)Dill Wrote: LOL you've not been following my posts to Luvnit on this topic. As noted above in my post to LSUfan on the HSGAC, it was THE UNITED STATES
that was leveraging 1 Billion in aid to Ukraine. '

And the reason the US, the EU and IMF wanted Shokin fired was precisely because he was doing nothing about Burisma. 

Dunno, i've read that he was going after a Burisma Exec and Obama and his group Loved him. 
https://nypost.com/2023/08/04/viktor-shokin-was-threat-to-burisma-says-hunter-biden-partner-devon-archer/
“He was a threat. He ended up seizing assets of [Burisma owner] Nikolai [Zlochevsky] — a house, some cars, a couple properties. And Nikolai actually never went back to Ukraine after Shokin seized all of his assets,” Archer told former Fox News host Tucker Carlson.

Shokin’s office won a court order to seize Zlochevsky’s property (Burisma owner, who has never been back to Ukraine since) on Feb. 2, 2016, the Kyiv Post reported at the time. Shokin was fired on March 29, purportedly due to his own corruption.
Biden later boasted that during the same visit, he had pressured officials to seek Shokin’s removal.

“I looked at them and said, ‘I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money,’” said Biden, referring to a $1 billion loan guarantee, at an event hosted by the Council on Foreign Relations in 2018. “Well, son of a *****. He got fired.”
The original conditions had nothing in them about Shokin being fired as a condition:
https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2023-08/Nov2015LoanGuaranteeConditionsIPC.pdf
then an update but still no mention of firing Shokin
https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2023-08/Nov2015LoanGuaranteeConditionsIPC.pdf
In fact, Shokin had glowing reviews from Obama's team and the Ukranian State Dept's top guy even sent him a letter praising him for combating corruption.
Only person that claimed he was corrupt was Joe.
https://nypost.com/2023/08/22/state-department-was-impressed-with-ex-prosecutor-biden-pressured-ukraine-to-fire-report/
The memos show Biden may have acted alone — and in fact counter to US policy — when he told then-Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to get rid of Shokin.

An FBI whistleblower has alleged Biden pushed for Shokin’s ouster because he was investigating gas company Burisma, where his son Hunter had an $80,000-a-month seat on the board of directors despite having no expertise in its business.
The source said that Burisma CEO Mykola Zlochevsky claimed he had “bribed” the Bidens for $5 million each — partly to get Shokin fired.
Joe Biden always has claimed Shokin was himself corrupt, and that he was just following an international consensus to get him removed.
I know the NYPost is a Right leaning media, but it definitely raises some eyebrows.
https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/110331/documents/HMKP-116-JU00-20191211-SD067.pdf

(09-14-2023, 11:12 AM)Dill Wrote: 1.5 Billion is way off. That's roughly the investment funding Kushner drew from Saudi Arabia.

We do have an idea if Hunter's money from China or Burisma was illegal since investigations so far have come up empty. 

I agree that its an ethics issue, though. Very improper.

1.5B is not way off, i showed you where Trump likely got the numbers from.
it took them 10 months for BHR (the company Hunter was part of) to raise 1B for investing in Sinopec Marketing Co LTD, in 2015 there was another big investment for about 500M, this is probably where Trump is calling it a 1.5B trip.
And weren't you calling what Kusnher did illegal? or Ethics violation?

[Dill]

(09-14-2023, 10:01 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Dunno, i've read that he was going after a Burisma Exec and Obama and his group Loved him. 
https://nypost.com/2023/08/04/viktor-shokin-was-threat-to-burisma-says-hunter-biden-partner-devon-archer/
“He was a threat. He ended up seizing assets of [Burisma owner] Nikolai [Zlochevsky] — a house, some cars, a couple properties. And Nikolai actually never went back to Ukraine after Shokin seized all of his assets,” Archer told former Fox News host Tucker Carlson.

Shokin’s office won a court order to seize Zlochevsky’s property (Burisma owner, who has never been back to Ukraine since) on Feb. 2, 2016, the Kyiv Post reported at the time. Shokin was fired on March 29, purportedly due to his own corruption.
Biden later boasted that during the same visit, he had pressured officials to seek Shokin’s removal.

“I looked at them and said, ‘I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money,’” said Biden, referring to a $1 billion loan guarantee, at an event hosted by the Council on Foreign Relations in 2018. “Well, son of a *****. He got fired.”
The original conditions had nothing in them about Shokin being fired as a condition:
https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2023-08/Nov2015LoanGuaranteeConditionsIPC.pdf
then an update but still no mention of firing Shokin
https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2023-08/Nov2015LoanGuaranteeConditionsIPC.pdf
In fact, Shokin had glowing reviews from Obama's team and the Ukranian State Dept's top guy even sent him a letter praising him for combating corruption.
Only person that claimed he was corrupt was Joe.
https://nypost.com/2023/08/22/state-department-was-impressed-with-ex-prosecutor-biden-pressured-ukraine-to-fire-report/
The memos show Biden may have acted alone — and in fact counter to US policy — when he told then-Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to get rid of Shokin.

An FBI whistleblower has alleged Biden pushed for Shokin’s ouster because he was investigating gas company Burisma, where his son Hunter had an $80,000-a-month seat on the board of directors despite having no expertise in its business.
The source said that Burisma CEO Mykola Zlochevsky claimed he had “bribed” the Bidens for $5 million each — partly to get Shokin fired.
Joe Biden always has claimed Shokin was himself corrupt, and that he was just following an international consensus to get him removed.
I know the NYPost is a Right leaning media, but it definitely raises some eyebrows.
https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/110331/documents/HMKP-116-JU00-20191211-SD067.pdf

1.5B is not way off, i showed you where Trump likely got the numbers from.
it took them 10 months for BHR (the company Hunter was part of) to raise 1B for investing in Sinopec Marketing Co LTD, in 2015 there was another big investment for about 500M, this is probably where Trump is calling it a 1.5B trip.
And weren't you calling what Kusnher did illegal? or Ethics violation?

You put a lot of effort into this post OtherMike. I respect that effort, but can't respond till this evening. 

[Luvnit2]

https://www.foxnews.com/media/biden-berated-claiming-taught-political-theory-university-pennsylvania-pretend-life
Biden berated for claiming he taught 'political theory' at University of Pennsylvania: 'Pretend life'
Multiple fact-checks have demonstrated that Biden only fulfilled duties as an honorary professor at the school for two years

Biden lies almost every time he speaks in public.

[LSUfaninTN]

(08-21-2023, 02:26 PM)Dill Wrote: Perhaps I have not followed this closely enough. 

It looks like Biden was wrong to say his son made no money from China. 

Did he know that during the presidential debate, though? 

His son was dishonorably discharged from the military, struggled with addiction (which makes it damn near impossible to hold down a job) and then became rich when Biden won VP. Even Q’anon fools were calling him Xiden before the election. What do you think? 

[Dill]

(09-17-2023, 01:44 AM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: His son was dishonorably discharged from the military, struggled with addiction (which makes it damn near impossible to hold down a job) and then became rich when Biden won VP. Even Q’anon fools were calling him Xiden before the election. What do you think? 

Well for sure I don't think that because HB was dishonestly charged from the military and struggled with addiction and Qanon called him "Xiden,"

that means Biden knew during the presidential debate that HB was taking money from China.

I can see why Biden might want to help and support his son, but also remain distant from his business dealings.

To get to Hannity/Jordon/Comer level condemnation I'd need to see more evidence, preferably documentary--like a text message

on HB's phone from Dad dated March 2020 saying "Xi gave you a million bucks for your LLC after I introduced you? Well done son!" 

Or "Big guy wants his 10% of that 1.5 mil the Chinese sent your company. Here's my routing and account #s." 

[LSUfaninTN]

(09-17-2023, 12:00 PM)Dill Wrote: Well for sure I don't think that because HB was dishonestly charged from the military and struggled with addiction and Qanon called him "Xiden,"

that means Biden knew during the presidential debate that HB was taking money from China.

I can see why Biden might want to help and support his son, but also remain distant from his business dealings.

To get to Hannity/Jordon/Comer level condemnation I'd need to see more evidence, preferably documentary--like a text message

on HB's phone from Dad dated March 2020 saying "Xi gave you a million bucks for your LLC after I introduced you? Well done son!" 

Or "Big guy wants his 10% of that 1.5 mil the Chinese sent your company. Here's my routing and account #s." 

My point was that if people who are loony enough to be Q’Anon picked up on what we know now, do you think Biden was completely in the dark? Hunter Biden is too high profile for Joe Biden to have had no idea. There was too much smoke to where other people knew. Joe Biden knew. 

I can’t stand Hannity, btw, but the text to Zhao saying he was sitting right next to his father and threatening “no more favors”… if that doesn’t tell you what you need to know, I don’t think anything will. I don’t blame Joe Biden for trying to help his addict son in and of itself, I’m in recovery and addiction is no joke, but to say he didn’t know about his ties to China is just insane. He was making way too much money to keep any of that a secret from someone so close to him and so powerful. 

[Dill]

(09-14-2023, 10:01 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: 1.5B is not way off, i showed you where Trump likely got the numbers from.
it took them 10 months for BHR (the company Hunter was part of) to raise 1B for investing in Sinopec Marketing Co LTD, in 2015 there was another big investment for about 500M, this is probably where Trump is calling it a 1.5B trip.
And weren't you calling what Kusnher did illegal? or Ethics violation?

Let me treat this one separately. 

Didn't Trump get that crazy 1.5 billion number from a book by Peter Schweizer? So that is a figure which was circulating as "fact" in the Right Wing Echo Chamber well before the debate, and Trump was not interested in whether it was actually true or not. He said Hunter "walks out of China with a 1.5 billion fund," like HB had and was in control of the money. According to WaPo, HB joined an investment firm which included Chinese and German partners, which at one time intended to raise 1.5 billion for Sinopec, as you reference. So we agree on that, right? HB did not walk out of China with 1.5 billion. He had a 10% share in an investment firm working with at least three others, and sat on the board. It wasn't HIS firm. So far nothing illegal. He took no salary while his father was in office. It was Chinese/German partners raising the money for Sinopec, etc. All that would have gone forward whether HB was there or not. The ethical questions arise around whether he played the VP-son card to insert himself into these dealings. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-says-hunter-biden-walks-out-of-china-with-15-billion-a-lawyer-says-thats-not-true/2019/09/25/26b89e7e-dfcf-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html

There are some interesting differences between HB and Kushner here, in that 

1. Kushner is best buddies with MBS, gave him cover for murdering Kashoggi, and worked closely with him in US political and financial dealings--i.e., acting as representative of the U.S. K's relation to the Saudi gov. is a personal relationship with the head of that government, whom he's got on speed dial (metaphorically speaking), thanks to connections forged under the wing of his father-in-law former president.  

2. The Saudi government/MBS gave Kushner TWO BILLION for the investment firm he FOUNDED in 2021, from which he received 10s of millions of dollars in management fees before actually investing anything. We are not talking about RAISING two billion; we are talking about 2 billion directly turned over to Kirchner's control. https://www.newsweek.com/jared-kushners-massive-saudi-earnings-few-investments-raise-questions-1821065 . So, metaphorically speaking, Kushner did "walk out of Saudi Arabia" with two billion dollars. 

This is certainly an ethics violation, of the sort to which the law has not yet caught up with yet, or which our legislators don't want it to catch up with. Sure. 
There could be illegality as well, but one would have to penetrate what sort of dealing went on while Kushner was still in office.
If Kushner and MBS worked this out over drinks and a game of pool in 2019, that would be VERY illegal, but also VERY HARD to discover.
Or maybe this level of investment required more paper than that, as MBS eventually would have had to issue directives, shift money from other targets to his pal Kushner. etc. Especially if the money is drawn through other institutions outside Saudi. So maybe worth a look.

And there don't seem to be the will or resources to investigate this at the moment, as Congress is focused on taking down the BIDEN CRIME FAMILY at the moment. I'll get back to them in my next post.

[*pally*]

(09-17-2023, 01:08 PM)Dill Wrote: Let me treat this one separately. 

Didn't Trump get that crazy 1.5 billion number from a book by Peter Schweizer? So that is a figure which was circulating as "fact" in the Right Wing Echo Chamber well before the debate, and Trump was not interested in whether it was actually true or not. He said Hunter "walks out of China with a 1.5 billion fund," like HB had and was in control of the money. According to WaPo, HB joined an investment firm which included Chinese and German partners, which at one time intended to raise 1.5 billion for Sinopec, as you reference. So we agree on that, right? HB did not walk out of China with 1.5 billion. He had a 10% share in an investment firm working with at least three others, and sat on the board. It wasn't HIS firm. So far nothing illegal. He took no salary while his father was in office. It was Chinese/German partners raising the money for Sinopec, etc. All that would have gone forward whether HB was there or not. The ethical questions arise around whether he played the VP-son card to insert himself into these dealings. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-says-hunter-biden-walks-out-of-china-with-15-billion-a-lawyer-says-thats-not-true/2019/09/25/26b89e7e-dfcf-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html

There are some interesting differences between HB and Kushner here, in that 

1. Kushner is best buddies with MBS, gave him cover for murdering Kashoggi, and worked closely with him in US political and financial dealings--i.e., acting as representative of the U.S. K's relation to the Saudi gov. is a personal relationship with the head of that government, whom he's got on speed dial (metaphorically speaking), thanks to connections forged under the wing of his father-in-law former president.  

2. The Saudi government/MBS gave Kushner TWO BILLION for the investment firm he FOUNDED in 2021, from which he received 10s of millions of dollars in management fees before actually investing anything. We are not talking about RAISING two billion; we are talking about 2 billion directly turned over to Kirchner's control. https://www.newsweek.com/jared-kushners-massive-saudi-earnings-few-investments-raise-questions-1821065 . So, metaphorically speaking, Kushner did "walk out of Saudi Arabia" with two billion dollars. 

This is certainly an ethics violation, of the sort to which the law has not yet caught up with yet, or which our legislators don't want it to catch up with. Sure. 
There could be illegality as well, but one would have to penetrate what sort of dealing went on while Kushner was still in office.
If Kushner and MBS worked this out over drinks and a game of pool in 2019, that would be VERY illegal, but also VERY HARD to discover.
Or maybe this level of investment required more paper than that, as MBS eventually would have had to issue directives, shift money from other targets to his pal Kushner. etc. Especially if the money is drawn through other institutions outside Saudi. So maybe worth a look.

And there don't seem to be the will or resources to investigate this at the moment, as Congress is focused on taking down the BIDEN CRIME FAMILY at the moment. I'll get back to them in my next post.

He picked up another billion dollars from other Middle Eastern countries including Qatar and the UAE.  What is even more interesting is that in 2 years he has barely done any investing with the funds while collecting those millions in management fees.

https://www.newsweek.com/jared-kushners-massive-saudi-earnings-few-investments-raise-questions-1821065

[Dill]

(09-17-2023, 12:18 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: My point was that if people who are loony enough to be Q’Anon picked up on what we know now, do you think Biden was completely in the dark? Hunter Biden is too high profile for Joe Biden to have had no idea. There was too much smoke to where other people knew. Joe Biden knew. 

I can’t stand Hannity, btw, but the text to Zhao saying he was sitting right next to his father and threatening “no more favors”… if that doesn’t tell you what you need to know, I don’t think anything will. I don’t blame Joe Biden for trying to help his addict son in and of itself, I’m in recovery and addiction is no joke, but to say he didn’t know about his ties to China is just insane. He was making way too much money to keep any of that a secret from someone so close to him and so powerful. 

Well, in case it was not clear enough the first time around, what Qanon "picks up on" does not increase credibility. It's because they are "loony enough" that they tend to pick up "Biden corruption" wherever, right along with drinking baby blood.

A text to Zhao doesn't particularly mean anything unless we know HB actually was sitting next to his father and not just playing Zhao. 
Also, even if Biden is there, HB could be texting under the table at lunch, unbeknownst to Joe.
What sort of reporter or criminal investigator would assume he's already got what he needs to know from that?  
If Zhao never actually spoke to Joe about any of this, I'd be very suspicious it's all just the addict son manipulating people
with his father's name and presence. Also, what "favors" would Zhao get no more of? That would be something that needed
establishing as well--not something to be assumed.

Also, it's possible Hunter did not want his father to know about the "too much money" you say he was making. 

So review the questions I just posed--they are what distinguish legitimate journalistic and criminal investigations from Qanon and Hannity--i.e.,they don't convict on "smoke."

Are you hearing such questions from our House investigators, or are we constantly hearing we have "all we need to know"
before another round of evidence evaporates, followed by outrage the liberal media isn't covering this and so is "protecting" those
we know in advance are the BIDEN CRIME FAMILY so there MUST BE wrongdoing somewhere? 

Near three decades of Fox & Co. have expanded a fringe Right which always went on smoke to a substantial number of voters, and to a substantial number of demagogic politicians who know what "smoke" will get them elected, and so provide it. Trump, so good at saying the quiet part out loud,
has wondered publicly if maybe the push for Biden impeachment is simply a response to his impeachment. Using the impeachment process to find supoena evidence needed for impeachment settles that question.

The consequence is the GOP might put an unstable grifter back in the WH, now bent on vengeance, and with a Congress of toadies who fear his displeasure above all. As Trump himself has intimated

You're not worried about that though. You are focused on the smoke.

[LSUfaninTN]

(09-17-2023, 02:35 PM)Dill Wrote: Well, in case it was not clear enough the first time around, what Qanon "picks up on" does not increase credibility. It's because they are "loony enough" that they tend to pick up "Biden corruption" wherever, right along with drinking baby blood.

A text to Zhao doesn't particularly mean anything unless we know HB actually was sitting next to his father and not just playing Zhao. 
Also, even if Biden is there, HB could be texting under the table at lunch, unbeknownst to Joe.
What sort of reporter or criminal investigator would assume he's already got what he needs to know from that?  
If Zhao never actually spoke to Joe about any of this, I'd be very suspicious it's all just the addict son manipulating people
with his father's name and presence. Also, what "favors" would Zhao get no more of? That would be something that needed
establishing as well--not something to be assumed.

Also, it's possible Hunter did not want his father to know about the "too much money" you say he was making. 

So review the questions I just posed--they are what distinguish legitimate journalistic and criminal investigations from Qanon and Hannity--i.e.,they don't convict on "smoke."

Are you hearing such questions from our House investigators, or are we constantly hearing we have "all we need to know"
before another round of evidence evaporates, followed by outrage the liberal media isn't covering this and so is "protecting" those
we know in advance are the BIDEN CRIME FAMILY so there MUST BE wrongdoing somewhere? 

Near three decades of Fox & Co. have expanded a fringe Right which always went on smoke to a substantial number of voters, and to a substantial number of demagogic politicians who know what "smoke" will get them elected, and so provide it. Trump, so good at saying the quiet part out loud,
has wondered publicly if maybe the push for Biden impeachment is simply a response to his impeachment. Using the impeachment process to find supoena evidence needed for impeachment settles that question.

The consequence is the GOP might put an unstable grifter back in the WH, now bent on vengeance, and with a Congress of toadies who fear his displeasure above all. As Trump himself has intimated

You're not worried about that though. You are focused on the smoke.

You’re warping my post. I’m not “just focused on the smoke.” I’m of the belief if there’s that much smoke from so many sources, there’s probably fire somewhere. I thought the same about the Russia collusion, until a 2 year investigation turned up dry. In this case, it turns out there WAS fire there. Hence, if even the Q-Anon-tards knew about the “smoke” which turned out to be NOT just smoke, you can bet the entire Biden clan knew. Apparently the fact that I was mocking Q-Anon’s typical conspiracy theories went over your head.

The same congress that made everything he wanted to do nearly impossible for 4 straight years? The executive branch is 1/3 of the government. They do not have control over congress. Executive orders are about as close to that as possible, and they can be undone on day 1 of the next presidency. You’re acting like he’s going to come in and tyrannize the country. It’s literally impossible to do that in a constitutional republic. 

We don’t need to know “what favors” there are. He wrote to Zhao “no more favors.” What do you think he was talking about? Free ice cream? The fact that you think it’s OK and that it doesn’t imply anything, is just sad. 

Last: Hunter may not have wanted him to know. Joe may not have wanted to know. Doesn’t change the fact that knew. The Biden camp knew fully well that Hunter is an election liability, likely the biggest one. In order to get elected and handle the mudslinging that would come with said liability, that HAD to know exactly what he was up to. It’s just not reasonable to think Joe Biden didn’t know that his son, who has struggled with working and addiction his entire life, all of a sudden became a millionaire. Even someone as oblivious and senile as Joe Biden. It’s a certainty that he kept up with Hunter, he’s a liability and the Biden camp, out of self interest, had to have a short leash on him. Like I said, you just refuse to listen to reason on this. Do you hate Trump that much? Put away your TDS for like… 5 seconds and try to look at this from a neutral perspective.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(07-31-2023, 05:08 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Joe Biden said hundreds of times he never discussed business with his son. He also said on the debate stage no family member made money with China.

His press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre lied over and over again in press briefings with reporters, as recently as last week. So, after Archer testimony, after whistle blowers sworn testimony and as fact like the 1023 form accusing Joe Biden of bribery, will she finally fess up or continue lying to reporters and the american people.

Why did Joe Biden get put on speaker phone over 20 times to close the deal and the Biden brand?

Who in their right mind after all of this evidence and Joe Biden and his people caught in lie after lie can ignore the Biden family got rich for political favors?

Please feel free to tell the forum Biden if a great family man (only accepted 7th grandchild after being pressured to do so) and a man of honor who just happens to have a son who got rich off of China, Ukraine and my guess many other countries. A family who has many off shore accounts and over 20 LLC's used to launder money n most cases. A legit business does not need money flowing into off shore accounts, unless they are hiding something criminal. It could be as simple as income tax revenue or as complex as bribes from foreign countries.

Serious question. Who still believes Joe Biden was never involved with Hunter's business dealings with foreign countries?

This has nothing to do with Donal Trump. This is all on the Biden family.

I haven’t believed anything Joe Biden has said since 1973.

[Belsnickel]

(09-14-2023, 10:01 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Dunno, i've read that he was going after a Burisma Exec and Obama and his group Loved him. 
https://nypost.com/2023/08/04/viktor-shokin-was-threat-to-burisma-says-hunter-biden-partner-devon-archer/
“He was a threat. He ended up seizing assets of [Burisma owner] Nikolai [Zlochevsky] — a house, some cars, a couple properties. And Nikolai actually never went back to Ukraine after Shokin seized all of his assets,” Archer told former Fox News host Tucker Carlson.

Shokin’s office won a court order to seize Zlochevsky’s property (Burisma owner, who has never been back to Ukraine since) on Feb. 2, 2016, the Kyiv Post reported at the time. Shokin was fired on March 29, purportedly due to his own corruption.
Biden later boasted that during the same visit, he had pressured officials to seek Shokin’s removal.

“I looked at them and said, ‘I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money,’” said Biden, referring to a $1 billion loan guarantee, at an event hosted by the Council on Foreign Relations in 2018. “Well, son of a *****. He got fired.”
The original conditions had nothing in them about Shokin being fired as a condition:
https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2023-08/Nov2015LoanGuaranteeConditionsIPC.pdf
then an update but still no mention of firing Shokin
https://justthenews.com/sites/default/files/2023-08/Nov2015LoanGuaranteeConditionsIPC.pdf
In fact, Shokin had glowing reviews from Obama's team and the Ukranian State Dept's top guy even sent him a letter praising him for combating corruption.
Only person that claimed he was corrupt was Joe.
https://nypost.com/2023/08/22/state-department-was-impressed-with-ex-prosecutor-biden-pressured-ukraine-to-fire-report/
The memos show Biden may have acted alone — and in fact counter to US policy — when he told then-Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to get rid of Shokin.

An FBI whistleblower has alleged Biden pushed for Shokin’s ouster because he was investigating gas company Burisma, where his son Hunter had an $80,000-a-month seat on the board of directors despite having no expertise in its business.
The source said that Burisma CEO Mykola Zlochevsky claimed he had “bribed” the Bidens for $5 million each — partly to get Shokin fired.
Joe Biden always has claimed Shokin was himself corrupt, and that he was just following an international consensus to get him removed.
I know the NYPost is a Right leaning media, but it definitely raises some eyebrows.
https://www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/110331/documents/HMKP-116-JU00-20191211-SD067.pdf

Here is sworn testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee from 2016, a short time after this all occurred and well before there was any scrutiny on the matter. It discusses the international concern with Shokin: https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/03%2015%2016%20Ukrainian%20Reforms%20Two%20Years%20After%20the%20Maidan%20Revolution%20and%20the%20Russian%20Invasion.pdf

Here is an article from around the same time from the European Council on Foreign Relations which highlights the corruption in the PGO and the role Shokin played in this: https://ecfr.eu/article/commentary_no_reforms_no_aid_for_ukraine_7020/

And here is an article from the Kyiv Post about the firing where it discusses the criticisms of Shokin for at the minimum, being slow to reform and eliminate the corruption in the office: https://www.kyivpost.com/post/10121

The Irish Times talking about the firing being praised by the EU: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190

Radio Free Europe talking about the IMF calling for Shokin's firing at the time: https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-imf-demand-poroshenko-corruption/27545849.html

An article from FT, a pretty down the middle news source, discussing this back in 2019: https://www.ft.com/content/e1454ace-e61b-11e9-9743-db5a370481bc

Everything from contemporary sources seems to corroborate the story that Biden was not acting alone, that Shokin was corrupt, and that his ousting was something being sought by the international community. The memos may raise some eyebrows, but it takes reading them with some confirmation bias to see anything in them like the NY Post is claiming.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-17-2023, 09:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Here is sworn testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee from 2016, a short time after this all occurred and well before there was any scrutiny on the matter. It discusses the international concern with Shokin: https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/03%2015%2016%20Ukrainian%20Reforms%20Two%20Years%20After%20the%20Maidan%20Revolution%20and%20the%20Russian%20Invasion.pdf

Here is an article from around the same time from the European Council on Foreign Relations which highlights the corruption in the PGO and the role Shokin played in this: https://ecfr.eu/article/commentary_no_reforms_no_aid_for_ukraine_7020/

And here is an article from the Kyiv Post about the firing where it discusses the criticisms of Shokin for at the minimum, being slow to reform and eliminate the corruption in the office: https://www.kyivpost.com/post/10121

The Irish Times talking about the firing being praised by the EU: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190

Radio Free Europe talking about the IMF calling for Shokin's firing at the time: https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-imf-demand-poroshenko-corruption/27545849.html

An article from FT, a pretty down the middle news source, discussing this back in 2019: https://www.ft.com/content/e1454ace-e61b-11e9-9743-db5a370481bc

Everything from contemporary sources seems to corroborate the story that Biden was not acting alone, that Shokin was corrupt, and that his ousting was something being sought by the international community. The memos may raise some eyebrows, but it takes reading them with some confirmation bias to see anything in them like the NY Post is claiming.

I can see he was protecting his own especially if he felt like he was under attack. 
If he was so corrupt, why didn't they pull his bank records and find those mysterious deposits and charge him?
I can't find anywhere in the news where he was found accepting bribes.

None of the links you provided actually said why he was corrupt or gave any proof. And all articles were posted AFTER he went after Burisma owner. Which makes me say hmmmmmmmm.

His Successor though...Artem Sytnik didn't accept the bribe from Burisma's owner.. but the fact that he was offered a 6M bribe 5 years later is fishy to me. I don't think he would have been offered one if they didn't think he would accept. Not very smart to offer a bribe to they guy that's persecuting you.. just another hmmmm


Not saying he's innocent in any way, but something doesn't feel right to me.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-17-2023, 02:35 PM)Dill Wrote: Well, in case it was not clear enough the first time around, what Qanon "picks up on" does not increase credibility. It's because they are "loony enough" that they tend to pick up "Biden corruption" wherever, right along with drinking baby blood.

A text to Zhao doesn't particularly mean anything unless we know HB actually was sitting next to his father and not just playing Zhao. 
Also, even if Biden is there, HB could be texting under the table at lunch, unbeknownst to Joe.
What sort of reporter or criminal investigator would assume he's already got what he needs to know from that?  
If Zhao never actually spoke to Joe about any of this, I'd be very suspicious it's all just the addict son manipulating people
with his father's name and presence. Also, what "favors" would Zhao get no more of? That would be something that needed
establishing as well--not something to be assumed.

Also, it's possible Hunter did not want his father to know about the "too much money" you say he was making. 

So review the questions I just posed--they are what distinguish legitimate journalistic and criminal investigations from Qanon and Hannity--i.e.,they don't convict on "smoke."

Are you hearing such questions from our House investigators, or are we constantly hearing we have "all we need to know"
before another round of evidence evaporates, followed by outrage the liberal media isn't covering this and so is "protecting" those
we know in advance are the BIDEN CRIME FAMILY so there MUST BE wrongdoing somewhere? 

Near three decades of Fox & Co. have expanded a fringe Right which always went on smoke to a substantial number of voters, and to a substantial number of demagogic politicians who know what "smoke" will get them elected, and so provide it. Trump, so good at saying the quiet part out loud,
has wondered publicly if maybe the push for Biden impeachment is simply a response to his impeachment. Using the impeachment process to find supoena evidence needed for impeachment settles that question.

The consequence is the GOP might put an unstable grifter back in the WH, now bent on vengeance, and with a Congress of toadies who fear his displeasure above all. As Trump himself has intimated

You're not worried about that though. You are focused on the smoke.

Does this help any?

https://oversight.house.gov/blog/joe-biden-lied-at-least-15-times-about-his-familys-business-schemes/

[Belsnickel]

(09-18-2023, 01:43 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I can see he was protecting his own especially if he felt like he was under attack. 
If he was so corrupt, why didn't they pull his bank records and find those mysterious deposits and charge him?
I can't find anywhere in the news where he was found accepting bribes.

None of the links you provided actually said why he was corrupt or gave any proof. And all articles were posted AFTER he went after Burisma owner. Which makes me say hmmmmmmmm.

His Successor though...Artem Sytnik didn't accept the bribe from Burisma's owner.. but the fact that he was offered a 6M bribe 5 years later is fishy to me. I don't think he would have been offered one if they didn't think he would accept. Not very smart to offer a bribe to they guy that's persecuting you.. just another hmmmm


Not saying he's innocent in any way, but something doesn't feel right to me.

The point here is that it counters the narrative that Biden was acting on his own. This was truly an international effort to get rid of Shokin. One of the articles mentions the head of the IMF calling for his resignation months before Biden did anything. As for his corruption, mostly the international community was saying he wasn't fulfilling his role to fight corruption. He paid lip service upon his appointment, but didn't really do anything. Here are some more contemporary articles about the issue:

https://archive.kyivpost.com/article/content/reform-watch/transparency-international-says-shokin-to-blame-for-failed-anti-corruption-efforts-401218.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2015/12/9/ukraine-new-government-same-corruption
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/25/money-still-rules-ukraine-poroshenko-corruption/
https://www.politico.eu/article/politics-of-corruption-kiev-west-friendly-states/
https://archive.kyivpost.com/article/content/kyiv-post-plus/shokin-resists-change-jeopardizes-visa-free-travel-to-eu-and-12-billion-of-aid-400948.html

As for the "after he started going after Burisma" comment, Shokin wasn't really going after them. He inherited an investigation into Burisma and by all accounts I can see, other than the one witness the GOP brought in and Shokin's comments, he was not really carrying out the investigation. Shokin's deputy even provided documents that backed up the idea that the investigation had been dormant. In addition, the investigation into Burisma was for activity that occurred prior to Hunter Biden's role in the company which means he was not personally at risk during that investigation.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(09-18-2023, 07:23 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: The point here is that it counters the narrative that Biden was acting on his own. This was truly an international effort to get rid of Shokin. One of the articles mentions the head of the IMF calling for his resignation months before Biden did anything. As for his corruption, mostly the international community was saying he wasn't fulfilling his role to fight corruption. He paid lip service upon his appointment, but didn't really do anything. Here are some more contemporary articles about the issue:

https://archive.kyivpost.com/article/content/reform-watch/transparency-international-says-shokin-to-blame-for-failed-anti-corruption-efforts-401218.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2015/12/9/ukraine-new-government-same-corruption
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/25/money-still-rules-ukraine-poroshenko-corruption/
https://www.politico.eu/article/politics-of-corruption-kiev-west-friendly-states/
https://archive.kyivpost.com/article/content/kyiv-post-plus/shokin-resists-change-jeopardizes-visa-free-travel-to-eu-and-12-billion-of-aid-400948.html

As for the "after he started going after Burisma" comment, Shokin wasn't really going after them. He inherited an investigation into Burisma and by all accounts I can see, other than the one witness the GOP brought in and Shokin's comments, he was not really carrying out the investigation. Shokin's deputy even provided documents that backed up the idea that the investigation had been dormant. In addition, the investigation into Burisma was for activity that occurred prior to Hunter Biden's role in the company which means he was not personally at risk during that investigation.

Still very odd though. he was just appointed the job on Feb 10, 2015, and got approval to seize Burisma Owner's property on Feb 2, 2016. Barely a year into the job and fired in March and the claim is he didn't move fast enough on Burisma? To me this isn't a job where you should move fast on, got to make sure you dot your I's and cross your T's, mistakes lead to parachutes. Overall it was a no-win job no matter what, sucks to be him.

[Belsnickel]

(09-19-2023, 09:15 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Still very odd though. he was just appointed the job on Feb 10, 2015, and got approval to seize Burisma Owner's property on Feb 2, 2016. Barely a year into the job and fired in March and the claim is he didn't move fast enough on Burisma? To me this isn't a job where you should move fast on, got to make sure you dot your I's and cross your T's, mistakes lead to parachutes. Overall it was a no-win job no matter what, sucks to be him.

Surprisingly, Shokin's firing wasn't all about Burisma. There was much more corruption he was ignoring beyond Burisma.

[Luvnit2]

(09-17-2023, 09:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Here is sworn testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee from 2016, a short time after this all occurred and well before there was any scrutiny on the matter. It discusses the international concern with Shokin: https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/03%2015%2016%20Ukrainian%20Reforms%20Two%20Years%20After%20the%20Maidan%20Revolution%20and%20the%20Russian%20Invasion.pdf

Here is an article from around the same time from the European Council on Foreign Relations which highlights the corruption in the PGO and the role Shokin played in this: https://ecfr.eu/article/commentary_no_reforms_no_aid_for_ukraine_7020/

And here is an article from the Kyiv Post about the firing where it discusses the criticisms of Shokin for at the minimum, being slow to reform and eliminate the corruption in the office: https://www.kyivpost.com/post/10121

The Irish Times talking about the firing being praised by the EU: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190

Radio Free Europe talking about the IMF calling for Shokin's firing at the time: https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-imf-demand-poroshenko-corruption/27545849.html

An article from FT, a pretty down the middle news source, discussing this back in 2019: https://www.ft.com/content/e1454ace-e61b-11e9-9743-db5a370481bc

Everything from contemporary sources seems to corroborate the story that Biden was not acting alone, that Shokin was corrupt, and that his ousting was something being sought by the international community. The memos may raise some eyebrows, but it takes reading them with some confirmation bias to see anything in them like the NY Post is claiming.

Again, you and others cite nothing proving Joe Biden was directed by the US State Department and President Obama providing proof Joe was tasked with getting Shokin fired. On the other hand, there are letters from the US state department stating what a great job Shokin was doing months prior to Biden threatening a Ukrainian president.

As I have stated, it is simple Obama and our US State department can provide definitive proof Joe Biden was sent to Ukraine to get Shokin fired. Obama has never addressed it. Why????????????????
Why did Obama support HRC to run against Trump and not his VP?

The committee is seeking all correspondence from the State department concerning giving Ukraine 1 billion dollars. Let's see if the state department cooperates or stonewalls the investigation. If indeed the Obama policy was to have Shokin fired, there has to be a trail of meetings abd paperwork to back it up.