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My bad for not just trying to rile up and insult the OP when I attributed it to just a mistake made in a rush.
Ok, maybe it was ignorance.
All seriousness aside the story talks about the audio being released and how the first story story was not based on that...which for the OTHER call the audio was released the week that it happened. That's why, when I read it I looked further into it because it didn't make sense.
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I had dinner last night with two college friends, both conservatives. One is much more conservative (and much more religious) the other is less so on both counts. The latter being my ex-college roommate, best man at my wedding (I was his also) and lifelong friend.
When we have these dinners we inevitably talk politics. I won't bore you with that but my old roommate is not a fan of social media and how it divided us. We had an in-depth conversation about what I often say here: There is social media, there is "the media", there is journalism, etc.
Clickbait is not the same as real journalism but too often everything gets intertwined because that is the earnings model that we have now for "news". Be fast, be first...worry about the be right later, at least in most/many cases.
He believes that "news" channels deliberately manipulate their viewers. I argue that they simply give the viewers what they want to get them to watch. FOX know Biden falling will get more hits than a story about Fauci having to explain (again) to Rand Paul that Rand Paul is an idiot. CNN knows that a story about an outbreak of Covid at Mar A Lago will get more views that a story about Biden accidentally calling Harris "President" during a speech.
And I am posting this story in this thread to show that "journalism" we is in the toilet when it is thrown in with things like this. Alleged "investigative reporting" aired on a "news channel".
And sometimes the "news channel" does indeed intend to mislead their viewers. OAN knew what their viewer wanted to hear. The people behind the "story" knew OAN had viewers that would be receptive to it whether it was true or not.
Passing it off as documentary on a news channel only reinforced what viewers "knew" or "believed" and then they spread it like so much of a virus in Florida.
Sometimes it is hard to separate the real news from the propaganda. That doesn't mean real news, real journalism isn't out there.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-proxies-helped-produce-documentary-oan-intelligence-report-2021-3
Quote:Russian proxies 'helped produce a documentary that aired on a US television network' last year, intelligence report says
Sonam Sheth
Mar 17, 2021, 6:00 PM
- An intel report said Russian proxies "helped produce a documentary that aired on a US television network" in January 2020.
- The documentary appears to have been featured on the Trump-aligned One America News Network.
- It explored purported allegations of corruption involving the Bidens and Ukraine.
- See more stories on Insider's business page.
A bombshell report released Tuesday by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence accused the Russian government of carrying out a covert influence campaign aimed at swaying the 2020 election in favor of then President Donald Trump.
As part of that effort, the report said, Russian proxies "made contact with established US media figures and helped produce a documentary that aired on a US television network in late January 2020." This line appears to be referencing a documentary by the Trump-allied One America News Network (OAN) that aired the weekend of January 25-26 last year, according to NBC News.
Titled, "The Ukraine Hoax: Impeachment, Biden Cash, Mass Murder," the film purported to "expose Biden-Obama corruption" related to Ukraine. It aired at the same time Trump was facing a Senate impeachment trial for withholding military aid from Ukraine while pressuring the country to launch politically motivated investigations targeting the Bidens.
The documentary was made by Michael Caputo, a former Trump advisor who served as the spokesperson for the Department of Health and Human Services before he took medical leave after spreading conspiracy theories about armed "left-wing hit squads" targeting Trump's second inauguration. He made the comments in September, when Trump and then-Democratic candidate and now President Joe Biden were still vying for the White House.
"I know Ukraine very well, and I knew that the Bidens were up to something there," Caputo said when promoting the documentary in an interview with the right-wing commentator Jack Posobiec in January 2020. "And I knew that the former president [of Ukraine], President Poroshenko, had been involved in interfering in the American elections. I thought that I could prove it, so I flew over there in August [of 2019]."
Allegations of corruption involving the Bidens and Ukraine, as well as claims of Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election, were at the center of Republicans' messaging during the 2020 race.
Trump, his lawyer Rudy Giuliani, and several of their congressional allies repeatedly accused the Biden of inappropriately leveraging his role as vice president to help his son, Hunter, when the younger Biden served on the board of the Ukrainian natural-gas company Burisma Holdings.
They also alleged that Ukraine, not Russia, was responsible for meddling in the 2016 election, and that it did so to help then Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton. OAN, which has often been compared to a state-run media outlet because of its pro-Trump agenda, was a key player in amplifying these claims.
But as the ODNI's report found — and as has been repeatedly confirmed by US officials, diplomats, and anticorruption activists — the allegations stemmed mainly from a Russian disinformation campaign directed by Vladimir Putin that aimed to push "misleading and unsubstantiated" narratives about Biden in order to "damage US ties to Ukraine, denigrate President Biden and his candidacy, and benefit former President Trump's prospects for reelection."
To that end, a "network" of pro-Russian Ukrainians like the lawmaker Andriy Derkach and the influence agent Konstantin Kilimnik "sought to use prominent US persons and media conduits to launder their narratives to US officials and audiences," the report said. "These Russian proxies met with and provided materials to Trump administration-linked US persons to advocate for formal investigations; hired a US firm to petition US officials; and attempted to make contact with several senior US officials."
In the last year, OAN and fellow Trump-allied network Newsmax have gained traction with the former president's base for presenting his views without scrutiny or fact-checking. But that same loyalty to Trump also landed both outlets in legal hot water when the election tech company Dominion Voting Systems threatened to sue them for defamation.
In January, Insider's Jacob Shamsian reported, OAN quietly scrubbed its site of Domion-related articles despite publicly doubling down on conspiracy theories about the company. It also removed stories about Smartmatic, a rival election tech company that was also a subject of the conspiracy theories and threatened legal action.
That members of the Trump administration or his allies were dumb enough/corrupt enough to use it/back it is another story.
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Here is another example. (Second tweet)
Not sure how that got messed up that quickly but she corrected it immediately.
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Here's another...minus a correction.
Just a deliberate misleading.
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Another example. A created story by FOX News with no substance just for the hits.
https://www.rawstory.com/harris-salute/
[/url]
Quote:Experts slam Fox News for wrongly attacking VP Harris for ‘repeatedly failing to salute military’
David Badash, The New Civil Rights Movement
March 24, 2021
[url=https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?url=https://www.rawstory.com/harris-salute/&text=Experts%20slam%20Fox%20News%20for%20wrongly%20attacking%20VP%20Harris%20for%20%E2%80%98repeatedly%20failing%20to%20salute%20military%E2%80%99&] [/url]
Fox News is taking fire from military experts after the conservative media outlet and some of its strongest allies attacked Vice President Kamala Harris for not saluting members of the U.S. Military. As experts explained, Harris is not a member of the military nor in the chain of command, and it would be inappropriate for her to do so. It would also signal a weakening of civilian control.
"Vice President Kamala Harris is facing criticism for appearing to break with precedent and failing to salute the honor guard when boarding Air Force Two," Fox News' Evie Fordham wrote in an online article on Tuesday.
"Video reviewed by Fox News showed that her predecessors, former Vice President Mike Pence and President Biden, regularly saluted the honor guard in the same situation."
Tom Nichols, a professor at the U.S. Naval War College who formerly was a fellow at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University, slammed Fox News, saying it would be "incorrect" for her to salute, and they know they're wrong.
Task & Purpose, a military news site reported on the "conflict" before Fox News did, concluding, "there is no requirement that the President or Vice President of the United States return a salute."
But a veteran speaking to The Chicago Tribune back in 2015 went even further.
"In the military, saluting is a part of ceremony and it's very prescriptive. If you're not in uniform, you can't salute," Eric Potter, a 32-year veteran of the military said.
"Saluting soldiers is not a recommended way to honor current or former members of the Armed Forces," the editorial team at Aircraft Compare wrote. "Even members of the Armed Forces do not salute when out of uniform. A salute is part of the official protocols that active soldiers follow. Outside official duties, the military salute is rarely displayed."
Meanwhile, Fox News host Sean Hannity "reported" on the "scandal" on his own site:
Former NYC "top cop," and convicted felon Bernie Kerik, who served in the U.S. Army and should know better, called not saluting "disgraceful."
Jonathan Ladd, associate professor at Georgetown University's McCourt School of Public Policy and the Department of Government joined in noting Fox News is wrong:
As did Military.com congressional reporter Steve Beynon:
[url=https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2Fharris-salute%2F%3Fxrs%3DRebelMouse_fb%26ts%3D1616604474]
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And................This is the same stuff that was done to Trump. Both sides hate each other and do this crap to each other. It's only going to get worse.
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(03-24-2021, 02:29 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: And................This is the same stuff that was done to Trump. Both sides hate each other and do this crap to each other. It's only going to get worse.
"Stuff" may now be done to Harris, at the rhetorical level, but the provocation is hardly the same.
She has not called war heroes "losers" or denigrated the service of POWs.
We are going back to the Obama era when the RWNM were calling out the President mostly for nothing
--and it worked for their audience.
Will it work this time around? I am less sure it can, given Trump's legacy.
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(03-25-2021, 11:30 AM)Dill Wrote: "Stuff" may now be done to Harris, at the rhetorical level, but the provocation is hardly the same.
She has not called war heroes "losers"
I do not believe this was ever substantiated. Trump did enough dumb shit without resorting to dodgy stories to skewer him.
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(03-25-2021, 11:30 AM)Dill Wrote: "Stuff" may now be done to Harris, at the rhetorical level, but the provocation is hardly the same.
She has not called war heroes "losers" or denigrated the service of POWs.
We are going back to the Obama era when the RWNM were calling out the President mostly for nothing
--and it worked for their audience.
Will it work this time around? I am less sure it can, given Trump's legacy.
The right wing media can't get anything to stick with these guys but it doesn't mean they won't stop trying. Trump had the same problem during the election. His tried and true ways of attacking didn't work and he was lost. All we are left with are the conspiracies and half-truths that his supporters continue to spread as gospel because they believed Trump above all else.
For four years plus Trump did or said something and if it was even repeated it was attacked as "fake news" or being biased against him. Even when there was video and a direct quote. Substantive things, not just Melania's coat. Windmills cause cancer (they say), very fine people on both sides, the virus will just disappear.
DJT loves attention and he loves chaos. He could deliberately say something to start a fight so he could play the victim or in other instances he could just be uninformed and then double down that he's the only one smart enough to understand.
Contrasted to the scandals of Obama's tan suit, the way he held a gun, Michelle baring her shoulders or not dressing "right" on the way to vacation.
Contrasted with Harris doesn't salute and Biden's dog bit someone.
There will be actual issues that will get talked about but they have to fill 24 hour news cycles and that gives too much time to the BS. Especially when it is a "news" company like Newsmax or OAN that is desperately trying to grab a very specific audience. News for clicks.
And again, to me, that is separate from "journalism".
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(03-25-2021, 11:53 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Dill Wrote:"Stuff" may now be done to Harris, at the rhetorical level, but the provocation is hardly the same.
She has not called war heroes "losers"
I do not believe this was ever substantiated. Trump did enough dumb shit without resorting to dodgy stories to skewer him.
You may be referring to the Atlantic Monthly article "Trump: Americans Who Died in Wars Are 'Losers' and "Suckers.'" E.g., he complained because the DHS ordered flags be flown at half mast for McCain, whom he called a "loser." Citing 4 unnamed sources, the reporter, Jeffrey Goldberg, said that Trump complained about celebrating war dead and wounded, whom he called "losers." https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/
A story apparently corroborated by other reporters: https://apnews.com/article/b823f2c285641a4a09a96a0b195636ed.
https://www.vox.com/2020/9/4/21422733/atlantic-trump-military-suckers-losers-explained
Four reputable news outlets, all citing anonymous sources, report President Donald Trump disparaged US troops, veterans, and missing service members, with several outlets reporting he has called military members “losers.” Yet the president, along with current and former staff on the record, continues to dispute those stories.
The loser story is "dodgy" to the degree that Trump, Sarah Sanders, Dan Scavino (dept. chief of staff) and his chauffer disputed it as "fake news."
Nothing dodgy about the following, though. And it is to this that my Harris comment refers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=541Cg2Jnb8s&t=202s
Minute 1:44 Trump doesn't like McCain because he does not like "Losers."
When his interviewer objects McCain is a war hero, Trump first says he is NOT a war hero,
then stipulates that he is a hero only because he was captured.
"I like people who weren't captured, I hate to tell ya'." Trump responds.
The implication is that people captured in combat have failed, not done their duty, "lost."
Several times after this, Trump claimed he never called McCain a loser.
All of this, as my post says, is on completely different level from anything said or done by Biden or Harris, who honor those
who served their country, and most especially those who gave their lives for it.
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(03-25-2021, 12:06 PM)GMDino Wrote: The right wing media can't get anything to stick with these guys but it doesn't mean they won't stop trying. Trump had the same problem during the election. His tried and true ways of attacking didn't work and he was lost. All we are left with are the conspiracies and half-truths that his supporters continue to spread as gospel because they believed Trump above all else.
For four years plus Trump did or said something and if it was even repeated it was attacked as "fake news" or being biased against him. Even when there was video and a direct quote. Substantive things, not just Melania's coat. Windmills cause cancer (they say), very fine people on both sides, the virus will just disappear.
DJT loves attention and he loves chaos. He could deliberately say something to start a fight so he could play the victim or in other instances he could just be uninformed and then double down that he's the only one smart enough to understand.
Contrasted to the scandals of Obama's tan suit, the way he held a gun, Michelle baring her shoulders or not dressing "right" on the way to vacation.
Contrasted with Harris doesn't salute and Biden's dog bit someone.
There will be actual issues that will get talked about but they have to fill 24 hour news cycles and that gives too much time to the BS. Especially when it is a "news" company like Newsmax or OAN that is desperately trying to grab a very specific audience. News for clicks.
And again, to me, that is separate from "journalism".
Yeah, the LEVEL of opprobrium was probably near the same against Obama and Hillary, as against Trump, but the GROUND of the complaints was very different.
That's what people miss when they just compare the rhetoric.
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(03-25-2021, 02:50 PM)Dill Wrote: You may be referring to the Atlantic Monthly article "Trump: Americans Who Died in Wars Are 'Losers' and "Suckers.'" E.g., he complained because the DHS ordered flags be flown at half mast for McCain, whom he called a "loser." Citing 4 unnamed sources, the reporter, Jeffrey Goldberg, said that Trump complained about celebrating war dead and wounded, whom he called "losers." https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/
A story apparently corroborated by other reporters: https://apnews.com/article/b823f2c285641a4a09a96a0b195636ed.
https://www.vox.com/2020/9/4/21422733/atlantic-trump-military-suckers-losers-explained
Four reputable news outlets, all citing anonymous sources, report President Donald Trump disparaged US troops, veterans, and missing service members, with several outlets reporting he has called military members “losers.” Yet the president, along with current and former staff on the record, continues to dispute those stories.
The loser story is "dodgy" to the degree that Trump, Sarah Sanders, Dan Scavino (dept. chief of staff) and his chauffer disputed it as "fake news."
Nothing dodgy about the following, though. And it is to this that my Harris comment refers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=541Cg2Jnb8s&t=202s
Minute 1:44 Trump doesn't like McCain because he does not like "Losers."
When his interviewer objects McCain is a war hero, Trump first says he is NOT a war hero,
then stipulates that he is a hero only because he was captured.
"I like people who weren't captured, I hate to tell ya'." Trump responds.
The implication is that people captured in combat have failed, not done their duty, "lost."
Several times after this, Trump claimed he never called McCain a loser.
All of this, as my post says, is on completely different level from anything said or done by Biden or Harris, who honor those
who served their country, and most especially those who gave their lives for it.
Yeah, there's a reason I didn't dispute what he said about McCain in the post you quoted. As for the Normandy comments alleged to have been made, I'm going to take the word of people willing to go on the record over "anonymous source" the vast majority of the time. His remarks about McCain are specific to McCain, trying to ascribe any deeper meaning to it rather gives Trump more credit than he deserves. If someone vexes him he's going to make an underhanded and crude comment about them. I don't think it goes any deeper than that.
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(03-25-2021, 03:07 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yeah, there's a reason I didn't dispute what he said about McCain in the post you quoted. As for the Normandy comments alleged to have been made, I'm going to take the word of people willing to go on the record over "anonymous source" the vast majority of the time. His remarks about McCain are specific to McCain, trying to ascribe any deeper meaning to it rather gives Trump more credit than he deserves. If someone vexes him he's going to make an underhanded and crude comment about them. I don't think it goes any deeper than that.
I'm not going to take the word of Trump over that of a number of respected journalists, and little is changed for me when those willing to "go on record" are Trump cronies. The alleged behavior is consistent with other indicators of attitude towards the military--most especially the POW comments aimed at McCain.
The bolded might apply to something like Trump's unnecessarily pointing out that McCain was last in his graduating class. One can disparage McCain's academic record without smearing other vets. And one might dismiss it as just another of Trump's cruel comments.
But the denial of "hero" status on POW grounds is rather different. One cannot denigrate McCain's POW status without disparaging all POWs. Also, that doesn't sound like something made up on the spot, tailored for the moment and the man, given the risk of alienating military voters and their families. That has the ring of "shithole countries," the "Kung flu" and "Fake news"--the expression of a long held world view regarding evaluating classes of people.
In any case, I don't want to move beyond the point of my post, which was that Harris has said/done nothing which remotely nears this kind of casual insult to the military, though there may be some attempt by the right wing media to elevate criticism of her to that level.
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(03-25-2021, 03:27 PM)Dill Wrote: I'm not going to take the word of Trump over that of a number of respected journalists, and little is changed for me when those willing to "go on record" are Trump cronies. The alleged behavior is consistent with other indicators of attitude towards the military--most especially the POW comments aimed at McCain.
The bolded might apply to something like Trump's unnecessarily pointing out that McCain was last in his graduating class. One can disparage McCain's academic record without smearing other vets. And one might dismiss it as just another of Trump's cruel comments.
But the denial of "hero" status on POW grounds is rather different. One cannot denigrate McCain's POW status without disparaging all POWs. Also, that doesn't sound like something made up on the spot, tailored for the moment and the man, given the risk of alienating military voters and their families.
In any case, I don't want to move beyond the point of my post, which was that Harris has said/done nothing which remotely nears this kind of casual insult to the military, though there may be some attempt by the right wing media to elevate criticism of her to that level.
Yeah, we just have different opinions on that story. I agree that the Harris thing was overblown/made up. Much like Trump there's plenty of reasons to dislike Harris without making things up or blowing them out of proportion.
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