Lawson was a Monster...Hubbard too

[THE PISTONS]

Man, that 92 PFF grade from from Lawson last night boosted his season grade to 79.1 and a comfortable second place on this defense.

1. Jessie Bates - 91.9
2. Carl Lawson - 79.1
3. William Jackson - 72.0
4. Vonn Bell - 70.2
5. DJ Reader - 69.6

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) December 22, 2020

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[THE PISTONS]

Great game by Pratt too!

Also!!!!
Germaine Pratt with a career game and a grade of 90.3
25 coverage snaps and a grade of 90.9 in coverage.
6 Tackles
3 Defensive Stops
2 catches allowed for 7 yards
1 PBU

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) December 22, 2020

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[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-22-2020, 03:03 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Great game by Pratt too!

Also!!!!
Germaine Pratt with a career game and a grade of 90.3
25 coverage snaps and a grade of 90.9 in coverage.
6 Tackles
3 Defensive Stops
2 catches allowed for 7 yards
1 PBU

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) December 22, 2020

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Now that’s nice to see. I’ve been pretty down on Pratt.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-22-2020, 03:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Now that’s nice to see. I’ve been pretty down on Pratt.

Yeah... he's been hit or miss, mostly miss. I thought he played well last night, but I didn't realize it was that good.

[BengalChris]

(12-22-2020, 10:40 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ben looked uncomfortable in the pocket and Lawson got pretty consistent pressure off the edge.

Of Jackson and Lawson and which to keep, 1 played amazing. The other played well, but had an easy interview fall through his arms.

Hubbard got some pressure too.

When the D gets pressure, it plays well. I feel like Daniel's and Covington played well too and didnt get pushed around.

Bynes was active too. Then of course Bell.

I'd prefer they'd re-sign both Lawson and Jackson. Jackson is our best corner and there's no reason to send him packing for a comp pick in 2022.

Alexander should also be kept around. Waynes, Jackson, Alexander and Philips makes a good corner corp.

I'd also be looking to extend Bates this off-season.

And, as others have noted. Ben looks done. He wasn't seeing the field and his throws were off, way off.

 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-22-2020, 04:12 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I'd prefer they'd re-sign both Lawson and Jackson. Jackson is our best corner and there's no reason to send him packing for a comp pick in 2022.

Alexander should also be kept around. Waynes, Jackson, Alexander and Philips makes a good corner corp.

I'd also be looking to extend Bates this off-season.

And, as others have noted. Ben looks done. He wasn't seeing the field and his throws were off, way off.

 

The reason is what it will cost to re-sign him. We already overpaid one CB, I don’t really want to overpay 2.

[GreenCornBengal]

Little late to this discussion but you gotta go with keeping Lawson in the choice of Jackson vs Lawson.

We just paid Trae Waynes a lot of money to be the starter here. I don’t think it would be wise to pay WJ3 as well. Best move would be to let him walk and invest in Alexander and Phillips. I’d be happy with Waynes, Phillips Alexander and a FA (or Draftee) for the core group at CB.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-22-2020, 10:46 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Ben looked done.  

The time may have finally come.

Fat, immobile, dumb, and with no running game and a defense that doesn't hand you possessions and shut down the opponent, Piggy looked exactly like what he is:  a guy that rode the coat tails of a great scheme, a great defense, and great help from officials.  He was a Super Bowl with a QB rating of 21.  

Fat pig.  

[Amalone002]

both Lawson and hubbard did look great.

I do think we sign Lawson back again. I think we need to sign WJIII also, is a damn good corner.
Someone mentioned my thoughts his magnified mistakes from the fans on this bengals podcast. Basically saying DB and OL are the most magnified when it comes to a mistake or 2, but you won't notice all the times they block, cover, shut WR's down, cut off their routes etc. But a play or 2 when WJIII drops a ball, or OL misses a block then its "this guy sucks" immediately.

but Lawson and Jackson need to be signed and I think they will get it done.

[samhain]

(12-22-2020, 11:09 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: He looks overweight, slow, and his arm has no zip.

Yeah, it seems unreal seeing that he's the Michael Myers of Bengals rivals, but he looks like time is finally catching up.  His escapbiblity isn't what we're used to be, ie 3rd and 19 conversions due to extended plays and that sort of thing.  He's much more statuesque in the pocket.  I can never remember a time when he seemed as easy to get to as he was last night.  This edition of the Bengals d-line has some guys that can play, but they're a collective team weakness, arguable the most glaring one.  Ben used to routinely best lines that consisted of Atkins and Dunlap in their primes.  

Almost every pass he threw over 5 yards looked like it was off target or could have been picked.  

Perhaps his knee really is shot, as the rumors have claimed.

I recall Peyton Manning's career end.  He was great his first year in Denver, then he declined pretty sharply only to be carried to a Super Bowl win by a monster defense and a somewhat lackluster AFC playoff bracket.  Everyone knew that he wasn't the old Peyton.  Point is, when qbs are done, it often seems to become apparent pretty suddenly.  Favre seemed ageless until he wasn't.  The signs are there for Ben.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-22-2020, 11:06 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Yeah, and he already said he wants to play next year....

Please!  Sign the fat piece of crap to a 5 year deal!  He's already the 4th best QB in the division.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-22-2020, 11:21 AM)Wyche Wrote: I'm with you. In the thread about the two, Lawson was my pick to keep. Last night solidified that for me. If WJIII takes a hometown discount, I'm in. Elite pay needs to come with elite play. Dropping a game sealing pick that was right in your hands isn't elite play.

I think WJIII will not take less than they gave Waynes and I don't believe it is a good idea to pay that much for the two of them.  If the rumors are true and he really wants to play elsewhere, I hope the Bengals are able to have another option behind Phillips because he has had trouble staying healthy.  They will clearly need to draft one if WJIII is gone. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Was a heck of a game by Lawson. Would like to see more of that so they don't just re-sign him on potential rather than results.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-22-2020, 02:42 PM)Au165 Wrote: I said in the other thread, Carl Lawson will be a top 3 pass rusher on the FA market. I think people here will be surprised what it costs to re-sign him if they pull it off.

Franchise tag potential

[fredtoast]

(12-24-2020, 02:45 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Was a heck of a game by Lawson. Would like to see more of that so they don't just re-sign him on potential rather than results.

I think he has shown production when healthy.  Since the start of the 2019 season he has played less than 1100 snaps yet he is 6th in the league in QB hits.  I know it would be better if he had more sack, but pressuring and hitting the QB has a profound effect on the passing game even if there are not a ton of sacks.

 My concern about locking Lawson up long term for big money is his history of injuries.  He only played 19 games the previous two seasons.  And he missed a full season and half of another in college due to various injuries.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-24-2020, 03:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I think he has shown production when healthy.  Since the start of the 2019 season he has played less than 1100 snaps yet he is 6th in the league in QB hits.  I know it would be better if he had more sack, but pressuring and hitting the QB has a profound effect on the passing game even if there are not a ton of sacks.

 My concern about locking Lawson up long term for big money is his history of injuries.  He only played 19 games the previous two seasons.  And he missed a full season and half of another in college due to various injuries.

The health is a concern.

Compile all the QB hits you want, those are good but they're not drive killers like sacks are. You have to finish plays eventually and he only has 11.5 sacks over the last 3 years combined. A QB Pressure only increases the likelihood of a drive ending in a punt by ~5.7% compared to a drive with no pressure, while a Sack increases that likelihood by ~18.2% compared to no sack.   (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/exactly-how-much-does-a-great-pass-rush-hurt-an-offense/)

This year was also his first (and second) FF of his 4 year career. So overall lacking in the big plays.

[Au165]

(12-24-2020, 02:47 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Franchise tag potential

Last year it was 17, that’s a pretty steep price. I’d rather try to pay him around 55 over 4 which is similar to the Preston Smith deal GB gave out a few years back with a little adjustment for time difference.

[J24]

(12-22-2020, 02:42 PM)Au165 Wrote: I said in the other thread, Carl Lawson will be a top 3 pass rusher on the FA market. I think people here will be surprised what it costs to re-sign him if they pull it off.

They should tag him

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-24-2020, 03:52 PM)Au165 Wrote: Last year it was 17, that’s a pretty steep price. I’d rather try to pay him around 55 over 4 which is similar to the Preston Smith deal GB gave out a few years back with a little adjustment for time difference.

Completely agree, but if Lawson and his agent think he is worth much more, it may be prudent to think of the tag as a backup plan.  It isn't the worst option given his injury history and one big year performance.  Make him do it again for the big contract.  

[samhain]

(12-25-2020, 12:49 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Completely agree, but if Lawson and his agent think he is worth much more, it may be prudent to think of the tag as a backup plan.  It isn't the worst option given his injury history and one big year performance.  Make him do it again for the big contract.  

Wouldn't hurt to draft a pass rusher early and another in the middle rounds to go along with the tag.  If we get someone that looks like he can be productive, the Lawson can be let go after the tag expires.  We're too undermanned talent-wise on the edge to let him walk right now.