Legitimate Arguments Against the 2nd Amendment

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-23-2016, 07:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And no one is forcing you to stay anywhere either.

So how is your group any different from the United States when it comes to "Obey or else"?  You are free to opt out anytime you want.

Except for that fact that I actually have to leave the US.  Which I have already stated, that I am considering.

However, the US, was supposed to be the "greatest country on earth".  It was supposed to be freedom.  It was supposed to be a place that if you didn't like something, you could move somewhere else, and still be an American.

This country is huge.  The ideas of the Founding Fathers, were to create a nation, where the laws were more important at the local level than the ones at the federal level.

So this way, if a community wanted to be all inclusive and allow gays, blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Middle Eastern or whatever.  Then that community could do so. 

However if I didn't want to be a part of that community, then I could move along and live in a more exclusive community that may not take everyone that wants to live in it.  That is if the community will allow me entry.  If the community says no.  Then I move along or I can create my own community, if I can find enough people that doesn't want to live in the all inclusive one, and they can't get accepted in the more exclusive communities.

Now if I really want to be in the more exclusive community, then I would need to make sure I had some skill or something else of value to allow me entrance. 

Again, I am already thinking about washing my hands of the US.  It is not the country that I was told it was.

[fredtoast]

(02-23-2016, 08:07 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Except for that fact that I actually have to leave the US.  

What do you mean "except for"?

Leaving is exactly what "opting out" means and you are free to leave anytime that you want.

So basically your little group is exactly like the United States........"Obey or else".

[fredtoast]

(02-23-2016, 08:07 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: However, the US, was supposed to be the "greatest country on earth".  It was supposed to be freedom.  It was supposed to be a place that if you didn't like something, you could move somewhere else, and still be an American.

Why do you want to be an American when America stands for so many things you don't like?
You want to, live in a Theocracy with no religious freedom then find a country that follows those rules, because here in the United States we believe in religious freedom.

[*michaelsean*]

How are you and your buds moving to Hungary if they are anti-immigration?

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-23-2016, 08:18 PM)michaelsean Wrote: How are you and your buds moving to Hungary if they are anti-immigration?

Hungary is anti-immigration from people that bring 0 value to their country.

You have to apply and go through the process of getting accepted.  The ones that I know over there have said that the process can be lengthy.  They have also said that if you are looking to build a big family then you can get expedited.  Unfortunately for me, I don't want more than 2 children.

Now the part that you and the others won't like, and will attributed it to white privilege.  Is they aren't open to taking blacks or middle eastern people.  They would rather black Americans to stay in America and keep it or immigrate to an African country, at least so I am told.

The Baltic States are like that as well.

So don't confuse Anti-Immigration with No Immigration.  They are more selective in their process than what some other Western Countries are.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-23-2016, 08:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why do you want to be an American when America stands for so many things you don't like?
You want to, live in a Theocracy with no religious freedom then find a country that follows those rules, because here in the United States we believe in religious freedom.

America stood for things that I took pride in.

The degradation of this society and the all around victim mentality and entitled cry babies that have never went farther than Canada or Mexico acting like they know anything about the outside world has caused this country to fall.

I am always reminded by this every time I have any correspondence with people like you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs

The problem I have with liberal socialist, is that they don't know how to leave other people alone.

I don't want to dictate to my views onto you.  You are allowed to associate and support whichever cause you wish.  You want to support same sex marriage?  Fine Support Same sex marriage.  You want to support Affirmative Action?  Fine support Affirmative Action.  You support desegregation? Fine support desegregation.  You support immigration, mass or just a little? Fine support that.  You want men to be able to call themselves women and to use a woman's bathroom?  Fine support that as well.

California provided everything you wanted and more.

With the size of our Country, the Sizes of our States, the size of our cities and the size of our towns, you would think we could come up with a nation that allows for people to be able to choose which place they would like to live.

There should be a place for people that don't support AA, SSM and would rather the people be segregated.  Maybe not to the extent of the past, where we made people sit at the back of the bus or give up their seats.  However, a place where in one town everything is black, another everything is white, from the government officials, all the way down to public schools and playgrounds.

However liberals can't work like that.  They think what is good for California is good for Kentucky or SC or all the other states.  So they push for more Federal control to mandate what they view as the correct way on everyone else. 

"Oh you wanted to pray in your school?  Too bad, that offends me and I don't want it to take place."

Here is liberal logic for you:

"Cops are Racist.

However only cops should have guns."

Can't argue with that type of stupidity.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-23-2016, 08:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What do you mean "except for"?

Leaving is exactly what "opting out" means and you are free to leave anytime that you want.

So basically your little group is exactly like the United States........"Obey or else".

Big country.  Yet the people here have such small brains.

OK.  How big is Ohio?  How big is California?

If you lived in California and I lived in Ohio, could we not have our own ways of doing things?  Without trying to force our views onto each other?

If I have to leave the US to get the type of life I am looking for.  Then that would mean, my taxes would no longer be collected.  The US has to goes to war?  One less able bodied man to call upon.  The US as a country had the potential to be so much more than what it has been turned into.  My children will no longer be citizens of the US either, so that would remove their potential from this country as well.

I think with as big as this country is, we can have places where you can get what you want, and I can get what I want.  Are we going to have to compromise?  Yep, that is what being an adult means.  Will I get everything I am looking for?  No.  However, I will be damned if I live in a country that allows for a Same Sex couple to sue a business because that business didn't want to support their lifestyle.  Especially when there are many other options available.

I don't want to live in a country where people don't know that they have to work hard to get what they want out of life.  Instead of feeling entitled to it.  I hear so many people praise Sanders for promising them free college, free healthcare, free, free, free.  Yet they don't think it is their choices that got them where they are and that Sanders' promises are empty because even with the free college, the people will still be in the same boat they are in, only with higher taxes.

[GMDino]

(02-24-2016, 07:51 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: America stood for things that I took pride in.

The degradation of this society and the all around victim mentality and entitled cry babies that have never went farther than Canada or Mexico acting like they know anything about the outside world has caused this country to fall.

I am always reminded by this every time I have any correspondence with people like you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs

The problem I have with liberal socialist, is that they don't know how to leave other people alone.

I don't want to dictate to my views onto you.  You are allowed to associate and support whichever cause you wish.  You want to support same sex marriage?  Fine Support Same sex marriage.  You want to support Affirmative Action?  Fine support Affirmative Action.  You support desegregation? Fine support desegregation.  You support immigration, mass or just a little? Fine support that.  You want men to be able to call themselves women and to use a woman's bathroom?  Fine support that as well.

California provided everything you wanted and more.

With the size of our Country, the Sizes of our States, the size of our cities and the size of our towns, you would think we could come up with a nation that allows for people to be able to choose which place they would like to live.

There should be a place for people that don't support AA, SSM and would rather the people be segregated.  Maybe not to the extent of the past, where we made people sit at the back of the bus or give up their seats.  However, a place where in one town everything is black, another everything is white, from the government officials, all the way down to public schools and playgrounds.

However liberals can't work like that.  They think what is good for California is good for Kentucky or SC or all the other states.  So they push for more Federal control to mandate what they view as the correct way on everyone else. 

"Oh you wanted to pray in your school?  Too bad, that offends me and I don't want it to take place."

Here is liberal logic for you:

"Cops are Racist.

However only cops should have guns."

Can't argue with that type of stupidity.

Thee are places you can be just want YOU want to be.




Ah...the good old days when "America stood for things" that you "took pride in"!





When men were allowed to men!  Well, the white ones.  Well the white ones that owned land.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-24-2016, 08:35 AM)GMDino Wrote: Thee are places you can be just want YOU want to be.




Ah...the good old days when "America stood for things" that you "took pride in"!





When men were allowed to men!  Well, the white ones.  Well the white ones that owned land.

Oh look... your brainwashing is showing.

White Shaming!

Feel sorry for you buddy.  You shouldn't hate yourself so much.

[GMDino]

(02-24-2016, 08:58 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Oh look... your brainwashing is showing.

White Shaming!

Feel sorry for you buddy.  You shouldn't hate yourself so much.

I don't hate whites.  Or Blacks.  Or Gays.  Or Women.  Or myself.

I hate individuals based on their actions.

But I guess they didn't each you how to do that when you were teaching yourself. 

I thought gave this to you before....if not please keep it.  Seems you will need it a good bit around here.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-24-2016, 09:03 AM)GMDino Wrote: I don't hate whites.  Or Blacks.  Or Gays.  Or Women.  Or myself.

I hate individuals based on their actions.

But I guess they didn't each you how to do that when you were teaching yourself. 

I thought gave this to you before....if not please keep it.  Seems you will need it a good bit around here.

Nope.  Haven't received it.  Does it carry over as far as the "Racism" card?  You know that one is losing value right?

Glad to see more memes from you.  Back to normal, eh?

[GMDino]

(02-24-2016, 09:05 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Nope.  Haven't received it.  Does it carry over as far as the "Racism" card?  You know that one is losing value right?

Glad to see more memes from you.  Back to normal, eh?

I'm just trying to have a discussion before someone else asks you a question at the same time.  

I don't want your feeling hurt that "we" are ganging up on poor little you.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-24-2016, 09:08 AM)GMDino Wrote: I'm just trying to have a discussion before someone else asks you a question at the same time.  

I don't want your feeling hurt that "we" are ganging up on poor little you.

Where did I say I was hurt?

Again, just pointing our your tendencies.

When it is one on one, you usually just use Memes and jokes.

When it is multiple, then you actually ask a lot of questions and seem to "try" to have a conversation.  Knowing that the person will have a lot to answer too, or else be accused of "ignoring" questions.

[GMDino]

(02-24-2016, 09:13 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Where did I say I was hurt?

Again, just pointing our your tendencies.

When it is one on one, you usually just use Memes and jokes.

When it is multiple, then you actually ask a lot of questions and seem to "try" to have a conversation.  Knowing that the person will have a lot to answer too, or else be accused of "ignoring" questions.

Again, I am sorry you were hurt and felt "attacked".  We'll all try to be nicer to you so you don't get confused.



Also if I were you I would NOT try out for the role of Sherlock Holmes.  You powers of observation aren't quite up to par. 

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-24-2016, 09:49 AM)GMDino Wrote: Again, I am sorry you were hurt and felt "attacked".  We'll all try to be nicer to you so you don't get confused.



Also if I were you I would NOT try out for the role of Sherlock Holmes.  You powers of observation aren't quite up to par. 

Oh no.  Only Fred has been attacked in this thread.  I, myself, have just pointed out YOUR tendencies, just so you know that you aren't as slick as you think you are.

Yeah, it is hard to compare myself to a fictional person.... must be why I don't do so.  

[GMDino]

(02-24-2016, 10:13 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Oh no.  Only Fred has been attacked in this thread.  I, myself, have just pointed out YOUR tendencies, just so you know that you aren't as slick as you think you are.

Yeah, it is hard to compare myself to a fictional person.... must be why I don't do so.  

No, no.  Its ok to admit your feelings.  Three people were responding to you at once and you were "ganged up on".

And again, you powers of observation are lacking...but I appreciate the effort you are making to understand me.

However I'd rather stop talking about me as this thread has completely derailed.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-24-2016, 10:35 AM)GMDino Wrote: No, no.  Its ok to admit your feelings.  Three people were responding to you at once and you were "ganged up on".

And again, you powers of observation are lacking...but I appreciate the effort you are making to understand me.

However I'd rather stop talking about me as this thread has completely derailed.

Oh, no argument there.  I thought it was going to be about the 2nd Amendment.  However it seemed to derail into drunk driving and my political philosophy, and, gasp, the flaws in it, as if I have ever claimed that my views is perfect.

However, like you, I would rather stop talking about me, and move onto the actual thread.

Such as.  No issue with educating people on fire arm safety, just think it should be done in school.  Not a separate program that would require people like me, who have had military training, plus extra training in the past 16 years, to spend extra money to go through this training.

I also am quick to point out that fallacy that the people in this video have had 0 training.

What do you think about the video?  Do you think they all are untrained or could some be trained and just be stupid?

[GMDino]

(02-24-2016, 10:42 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Oh, no argument there.  I thought it was going to be about the 2nd Amendment.  However it seemed to derail into drunk driving and my political philosophy, and, gasp, the flaws in it, as if I have ever claimed that my views is perfect.

However, like you, I would rather stop talking about me, and move onto the actual thread.

Such as.  No issue with educating people on fire arm safety, just think it should be done in school.  Not a separate program that would require people like me, who have had military training, plus extra training in the past 16 years, to spend extra money to go through this training.

I also am quick to point out that fallacy that the people in this video have had 0 training.

What do you think about the video?  Do you think they all are untrained or could some be trained and just be stupid?

Without knowing them it could easily be both!

Lots of gun lovers / owners around me where I live but I have never seen anyone give a gun to someone to shoot if they had never fired one before unless they stayed with them, made sure it was something they could handle and put safety first.

I'd be OK with schools having a course...but I'd rather it be optional and then if they want a gun later they have to pay for the training themselves.

My dad was a hunter until my sister was born.  I was all of 4 years old so I never went with him and then never went at all.  I have no desire to own a gun, but those that do need to be trained (as you say) and also vetted as best we can.  Can't eliminate all crazy people but we can try to catch most of them.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-24-2016, 11:06 AM)GMDino Wrote: Without knowing them it could easily be both!

Lots of gun lovers / owners around me where I live but I have never seen anyone give a gun to someone to shoot if they had never fired one before unless they stayed with them, made sure it was something they could handle and put safety first.

I'd be OK with schools having a course...but I'd rather it be optional and then if they want a gun later they have to pay for the training themselves.

My dad was a hunter until my sister was born.  I was all of 4 years old so I never went with him and then never went at all.  I have no desire to own a gun, but those that do need to be trained (as you say) and also vetted as best we can.  Can't eliminate all crazy people but we can try to catch most of them.

    Sincerely.  NO JOKE.

This is a good post.

I agree with it 100%.

Be careful though.  Who knows what else we agree upon?

[GMDino]

(02-24-2016, 11:12 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote:     Sincerely.  NO JOKE.

This is a good post.

I agree with it 100%.

Be careful though.  Who knows what else we agree upon?

Look, I'm reasonable.  I know I'm more liberal than conservative but to me it is issue by issue.