Let's talk about income inequality

[Beaker]

(06-09-2015, 11:15 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: I'm not sure what fake classes have to do with free college for as long as you want and need.  The entire idea behind investing in education is that you'll eventually do something productive with what you learned...you know, an expectation of a societal return as opposed to a free handout.  Otherwise this is just enrollment in college as a qualification for unlimited welfare.

Ben said:

"If someone is willing to even attempt to make an effort at higher education, they should be allowed to do so for free and for as long as they want.  



Progress is not something easy to define."

I told him progress was easy to define, passing your classes and working towards your degree. He then told me that was naive and brought up the UNC scandal as an example as to why grades shouldnt be used.

I dont have a problem with people getting free educations....as long as they are showing true effort towards bettering themselves. But to just allow people to be career students who repeatedly fail, or dont show up for classes regularly is a waste of money. There must be accountability and grades and attendance are a pretty good indicator of effort.

[Ben Richards]

(06-08-2015, 11:10 AM)Beaker Wrote: Progress in academics is easy to define.....someone who is passing their classes and working towards a degree.

this is the original thought.   Really?  Easy to define?   

i said "hey, you can't define progress as someone passing a class, and here is an example of why." 

You would have to define progress as more than just someone passing a class.  sorry your small brains can't comprehend or stay on topic.  

What about that Devils Advocate post?  That was somethin.

[JustWinBaby]

(06-09-2015, 11:24 AM)Beaker Wrote: I told him progress was easy to define, passing your classes and working towards your degree.

I don't disagree with you, it's just that working toward a degree wasn't something Ben even wants to make a requirement, so progress/pass/fail is irrelevant to his point.

I think Ben wants the taxpayer to fund him as a lifelong student so he can make posts on message boards completely lacking any real world experience.

[JustWinBaby]

(06-09-2015, 11:24 AM)Ben Richards Wrote: What about that Devils Advocate post?  That was somethin.

It started out with a couple of interesting points and then quickly derailed into abolish the fed/re-institute the gold standard lunacy.  Good stuff if you haven't taken an econ class since 1930.

[Beaker]

(06-09-2015, 11:24 AM)Ben Richards Wrote: this is the original thought.   Really?  Easy to define?   

i said "hey, you can't define progress as someone passing a class, and here is an example of why."

No, this was your actual response:

"Tell that to the morons at UNC taking fake courses and passing them.  I'm sure this is the only institution where that happens.  Yeah, real easy to define."


The example of the UNC scam as a reason grades dont indicate progress is what is actually naive. Obviously there have to be safeguards in place to sniff out abuses...just like with any other program. But if a student is attending legitimate classes regularly, and getting passing grades, that is a pretty good indicator that they are making progress and working towards being a more productive member of society. If they are not attending regularly, or are not passing a set number of classes, then their progress is negligible. And Im not saying they should be kicked out for failing a class or two, since everyone knows some classes are harder for different people. But a continued failure of many classes basically will eventually come down to 2 things...effort, or mental capability. If they dont have either, then they need to move on to other areas of life in which they can contribute to society. Not everyone is cut out to be an executive. Many folks are more talented and creative with manual things. My neighbor isnt academically gifted, but the dude can fix anything or come up with ideas how to fabricate anything you need.

[Beaker]

(06-09-2015, 11:32 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: I don't disagree with you, it's just that working toward a degree wasn't something Ben even wants to make a requirement, so progress/pass/fail is irrelevant to his point.

I think Ben wants the taxpayer to fund him as a lifelong student so he can make posts on message boards completely lacking any real world experience.

Exactly,  I dont agree with that idea either.

[Ben Richards]

(06-09-2015, 11:32 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: I think Ben wants the taxpayer to fund him as a lifelong student so he can make posts on message boards completely lacking any real world experience.

I don't want anyone to 'fund' me.  I'll fund myself.  As for my 'real world' experience.  I probably have just as much as you, if not more.  I'm sure JustWinBaby is out there mattering in the world. 

[Ben Richards]

(06-09-2015, 11:38 AM)Beaker Wrote: Many folks are more talented and creative with manual things. My neighbor isnt academically gifted, but the dude can fix anything or come up with ideas how to fabricate anything you need.

The old neighbor example.  Well played.

Do you have more stuff than your neighbor?

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-09-2015, 11:24 AM)Ben Richards Wrote: this is the original thought.   Really?  Easy to define?   

i said "hey, you can't define progress as someone passing a class, and here is an example of why." 

You would have to define progress as more than just someone passing a class.  sorry your small brains can't comprehend or stay on topic.  

What about that Devils Advocate post?  That was somethin.

You cannot argue that progress isn't easily defined based on the UNC grade scandal, and I will tell you why.  

Quote:In all, the report estimates, at least 3,100 students took the paper classes, but adds the number "very likely falls far short of the true number."

Lets say the second part of that is more accurate and it's more like 10 times that number.  Now we are at 31,000 students over 18 years.  That is 1722 students per year.  There are roughly 30,000 students at UNC.  That is 5.7 percent of the population.  Assuming worst case here.  probably less.  That falls well within the margin or error and in most peoples outlook on life negligible to the question, can progress in academics be measured.  Of course it can and is.

If this was a broader issue, encompassing a larger population of the students then you would have a point.

[Ben Richards]

(06-09-2015, 11:44 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: You cannot argue that progress isn't easily defined based on the UNC grade scandal, and I will tell you why.  

The UNC grade scandal is a small example as to why 'progress' cannot be defined as a 'passing grade'...  I'll give you that.  

You can argue your point, that has shit on it, and I'll allow it.  I'm just pointing out that you have shit on your face.

All I want is an educated society.  That's all.  At any cost.

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-09-2015, 12:25 PM)Ben Richards Wrote: The UNC grade scandal is a small example as to why 'progress' cannot be defined as a 'passing grade'...  I'll give you that.  

You can argue your point, that has shit on it, and I'll allow it.  I'm just pointing out that you have shit on your face.

All I want is an educated society.  That's all.  At any cost.

Ignoring the highlighted given it has zero relevance to my post...

Ignoring the highlighted given it has zero relevance to my post...

Please provide large examples.

[Beaker]

(06-09-2015, 12:25 PM)Ben Richards Wrote: All I want is an educated society. 

Start with the man in the mirror.

[JustWinBaby]

(06-09-2015, 12:25 PM)Ben Richards Wrote: All I want is an educated society.  That's all.  At any cost.

But then who will do all those jobs beneath everyone?  Are the smart robots going to invent dumb robots to do menial jobs?

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-09-2015, 11:08 AM)Ben Richards Wrote: OOooooh attacking my education!  Again, you don't know me.  I know that you seem to be some naive moron that believes only athletes could be subjected to fake classes and passing grades for doing nothing.  Hey, it's just athletes....(insert cliche)  they aren't at a place designed for education to get an education!


The fact that you even mentioned logic is amusing.

So you're response is "you don't know me, but I know you..." :crazy:

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-09-2015, 10:50 AM)Ben Richards Wrote: You don't know me dickwad.  Take your kiddie mentality back to Sesame St and **** off.

Such an adult response :snark:

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-09-2015, 12:25 PM)Ben Richards Wrote: The UNC grade scandal is a small example as to why 'progress' cannot be defined as a 'passing grade'...  I'll give you that.  

You can argue your point, that has shit on it, and I'll allow it.  I'm just pointing out that you have shit on your face.

All I want is an educated society.  That's all.  At any cost.

Your superior intellect is astonishing

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-09-2015, 02:41 PM)Beaker Wrote: Start with the man in the mirror.

[fredtoast]

(06-06-2015, 10:12 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Everything that you mention, is already in existence.

What else should we do?  Perhaps we (the taxpayers) could also foot the bill for free motivators, cheerleaders and life coaches?  You know, to encourage them to take advantage of what's out there, and give them positive reinforcement that they are doing the right thing.

Again you don't know what you are talking about.  Millions of Americans can't afford health care, have no access to mass transportation, or child care assistance, or many of the other things on that list.

If we are going to have a discussion lets try and keep it in the realm of reality.  I know it is much easier to just ignore facts and say "People are poor because they are lazy", but just because it is simple does not mean it is reality.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

:slapping:

[SunsetBengal]

(06-09-2015, 06:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again you don't know what you are talking about.  Millions of Americans can't afford health care, have no access to mass transportation, or child care assistance, or many of the other things on that list.

If we are going to have a discussion lets try and keep it in the realm of reality.  I know it is much easier to just ignore facts and say "People are poor because they are lazy", but just because it is simple does not mean it is reality.

Fred, you keep dodging the point that I am making.  Ask yourself why these people cannot afford the items that you listed.  I'm relatively certain that if they learned some skills, to improve their employability, they likely could find a job that would afford them those things.



No one ever got ahead by complaining about unfair treatment, and demanding that the minimum wage get raised. - SunsetBengal 06/09/15