Let's talk about income inequality

[Ben Richards]

(06-07-2015, 12:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: How about free for those making substantial academic progress?  Would seem pointless to let those without the aptitude or drive to succeed take up space and waste time and money.

If someone is willing to even attempt to make an effort at higher education, they should be allowed to do so for free and for as long as they want.  

Progress is not something easy to define.  Your idea could differ from the next, and so on and so on.

[JustWinBaby]

(06-07-2015, 12:04 PM)Ben Richards Wrote: School should be free to all, I didn't say 'we' should fund it.  You seem like you could use a few more years yourself.

Yeah, umm, for school to be free, where does the money come from other than "we" the taxpayer?  You seem like you never got any school yourself, and would appear to be exhibit A of why funding school for anyone for as long as they want is an enormously wasteful idea. And doing so without any qualification or restriction also makes it an enormously dumb idea.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/Decline_of_the_Middle_Class_in_Philadelphia.html?c=r

This is more of a case study involving a single city, Philadelphia

In the city the lower income grew by 17% while the upper income dropped by 1%.  In the suburbs the lower income grew by 5% while the upper income grew by 11%.

Combining city and suburban figures: lower income 17%+5%=22%, upper income -1%+11%=10%

I multiplied the percentages of each category by the number of residents in 1970 and 2010 to get raw numbers of residents who moved up or down.  From 1970 to 2010, the number of residents in the lower income from both the city and the suburbs increased by 461,873 residents.  From 1970 to 2010, the number of residents in the upper income from both the city and the suburbs increased by 495,442 residents.

So in Philadelphia the middle income is shrinking for two different reasons.  An increased number of people are becoming wealthier and moving into the upper class, while an increased number of people are becoming poorer and moving into the lower class. The absolute numbers are roughly the same in both directions.

It's real easy to say everyone has the same chance, but the numbers don't seem to bear that out for the residents of Philadelphia when the numbers on both ends of the spectrum are increasing while the middle is disappearing.  That's income inequality. It's not a about taking money from you and giving it to someone else (whom you invariably believe is a lazy freeloader.)  Income inequality is about the widening gap between the haves and the have-nots because the middle is disappearing.  FFS!  While some people are successful, it is getting more and more difficult for just as many in the middle class to keep up and it isn't because every one of them is lazy.

[Ben Richards]

(06-07-2015, 07:42 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Yeah, umm, for school to be free, where does the money come from other than "we" the taxpayer?  You seem like you never got any school yourself, and would appear to be exhibit A of why funding school for anyone for as long as they want is an enormously wasteful idea. And doing so without any qualification or restriction also makes it an enormously dumb idea.

Don't worry, nobody wants to use your greasy disgusting money.  I bet you were valedictorian of your school.

[Beaker]

(06-07-2015, 12:14 PM)Ben Richards Wrote: If someone is willing to even attempt to make an effort at higher education, they should be allowed to do so for free and for as long as they want.  

Progress is not something easy to define.  Your idea could differ from the next, and so on and so on.

Progress in academics is easy to define.....someone who is passing their classes and working towards a degree.

[Ben Richards]

(06-08-2015, 11:10 AM)Beaker Wrote: Progress in academics is easy to define.....someone who is passing their classes and working towards a degree.

Tell that to the morons at UNC taking fake courses and passing them.  I'm sure this is the only institution where that happens.  Yeah, real easy to define.

[Devils Advocate]

source

40% of Americans earn less than 1968 minimum wage

Quote:Are American workers paid enough?  That is a topic that is endlessly debated all across this great land of ours.  Unfortunately, what pretty much everyone can agree on is that American workers are not making as much as they used to after you account for inflation.  Back in 1968, the minimum wage in the United States was $1.60 an hour.  That sounds very small, but after you account for inflation a very different picture emerges.  Using the inflation calculator that the Bureau of Labor Statistics provides, $1.60 in 1968 is equivalent to $10.74 today.

And of course the official government inflation numbers have been heavily manipulated to make inflation look much lower than it actually is, so the number for today should actually be substantially higher than $10.74, but for purposes of this article we will use $10.74.  If you were to work a full-time job at $10.74 an hour for a full year (with two weeks off for vacation), you would make about $21,480 for the year.

That isn't a lot of money, but according to the Social Security Administration, 40.28% of all workers make less than $20,000 a year in America today.  So that means that more than 40 percent of all U.S. workers actually make less than what a full-time minimum wage worker made back in 1968.  That is how far we have fallen.

The other day I wrote an article which discussed the transition that we are witnessing in our economy right now.  Good paying full-time jobs are disappearing, and they are being replaced by low paying part-time jobs.  So far this year, 76.7 percent of the jobs that have been "created" in the U.S. economy have been part-time jobs.

That would be depressing enough, but what makes it worse is that wages for many of these low paying jobs have actually been declining over the past decade even as the cost of living keeps going up.  The following is from a recent USA Today article...

In the years between 2002 and 2012, real median wages dropped by at least 5% in five of the top 10 low-wage jobs, including food preparers and housekeepers.
So where have the good jobs gone?

Well, there are three long-term trends that are absolutely crushing American workers right now.

First of all, thanks to our very foolish politicians American workers have been merged into a global labor pool where they must directly compete for jobs with workers on the other side of the planet that live in countries where it is legal to pay slave labor wages.  This has resulted in millions upon millions of good jobs leaving this country.  Big corporations can pad their profits by taking a job from an American worker making $15 an hour with benefits and giving it to a worker on the other side of the globe that is willing to work for less than a dollar an hour with no benefits.  Our politicians could do something about this, but they refuse to do so.  Most of them are absolutely married to the idea of a one world economic system that will unite the globe.  Unfortunately, the U.S. economy is going to continue to lose tens of thousands of businesses and millions upon millions of jobs to this one world economic system.

Secondly, big corporations are replacing as many expensive workers with machines, computers and robots as they possibly can.  As technology continues to advance at a blistering pace, the need for workers (especially low-skilled workers) will continue to decrease.  Unfortunately, the jobs that are being lost to technology are not coming back any time soon.

Thirdly, the overall U.S. economy has been steadily declining for more than a decade.  If you doubt this, just read this article.  As our economy continues to get weaker, the lack of jobs is going to become a bigger and bigger problem.

And as our economy systematically loses good jobs, more Americans are forced to become dependent on the government.

Back in 1979, there was about one American on food stamps for every manufacturing job.  Today, there are about four Americans on food stamps for every manufacturing job.

When I first found that statistic I was absolutely stunned.  How in the world can anyone out there deny that the U.S. economy is collapsing?

But as I mentioned above, it isn't just that the number of jobs is not what it should be.  The quality of our jobs is declining as well.  For example, one study found that between 1969 and 2009 the wages earned by American men between the ages of 30 and 50 declined by 27 percent after you account for inflation.

That is a pretty stunning decline.  And it has only accelerated in recent years.  Median household income (adjusted for inflation) has fallen by 7.8 percent since the year 2000, and the ratio of wages and salaries to GDP in the United States is near an all-time record low.

Most Americans are finding that their bills just keep going up but their paychecks are not.  This is causing the middle class to wither away, and most families are just trying to survive from month to month at this point.  In fact, according to one recent survey 76 percent of all Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.

So where do we go from here?

To some people the answer is simple.  They say that we should substantially raise the minimum wage.  And yes, that would definitely make life a bit better for lots of low paid workers out there, but it would also have some very negative side effects.  A substantially higher minimum wage would mean higher prices at retail stores and restaurants, and it would also greatly increase the incentive that corporations have to replace American workers with foreign workers or with technology.  We already have rampant unemployment in this country, and right now there are more than 100 million working age Americans that do not have a job.  We certainly don't want to make that worse.

So raising the minimum wage would not solve our problems.  It would just redistribute our problems.

What we really need to do is to return to the principles that once made this country great.  In early America, we protected our markets with high tariffs.  Access to the U.S. market was a privilege.  Foreign domination was kept out, and our economy thrived.

It is definitely not "conservative" and it should not be "liberal" to stand by and watch millions upon millions of our good jobs get shipped over to communist China.  We need more "economic patriots" in America today, but unfortunately they appear to be a minority at this point.

And once upon a time the U.S. economy was actually a free market system where rules, regulations and red tape were kept to a minimum.  Our nation blossomed under such a system.  Sadly, today we have become a nation that literally has millions of laws, rules and regulations.  The control freaks seem to run everything.  In fact, the Obama administration recently forced one small-time magician out in Missouri to submit a 32 page disaster plan for the little rabbit that he uses in his magic shows for kids.  That is a very humorous example, but it is a perfect illustration of how absurd our system has become.

Another thing we could do to turn this around would be to get rid of the IRS and the income tax.  Did you know that the greatest period of economic growth in U.S. history was during a time when there was absolutely no income tax?  If you doubt this, just read this article.

And of course probably the most important thing that we could do for our economy would be to get rid of the Federal Reserve.  The Fed is a massive Ponzi scheme and it has played a primary role in creating almost every single financial bubble in the post-World War II era.  Right now we are living in the greatest bond bubble in the history of the planet, and when that Fed-created bubble bursts the pain is going to be absolutely excruciating.  In addition, the value of our currency has declined by over 96 percent and the size of the U.S. national debt has gotten more than 5000 times larger since the Fed was created.  The Federal Reserve is at the very heart of our economic problems, and we desperately need to shut it down.

Unfortunately, our politicians are not even willing to consider these solutions, and most Americans are way too busy watching Toddlers & Tiaras, Honey Boo Boo and other mindless television programs to be bothered with the real problems that our country is facing.

So needless to say, the great economic storm that is coming is not going to be averted.  Most of the country is still asleep, and most people are going to get absolutely blindsided by the economic nightmare that is rapidly approaching.

[Ben Richards]

Lock and archive.

[Beaker]

(06-08-2015, 09:31 PM)Ben Richards Wrote: Tell that to the morons at UNC taking fake courses and passing them.  I'm sure this is the only institution where that happens.  Yeah, real easy to define.

Totally different situation. That isnt an example of someone tackling academics to try and better themselves...that was athletes (who didnt care about academics) "passing" courses so they could play sports and move on to professional careers with no concern for academics.

Try again.

[Ben Richards]

(06-09-2015, 12:50 AM)Beaker Wrote: Totally different situation. That isnt an example of someone tackling academics to try and better themselves...that was athletes (who didnt care about academics) "passing" courses so they could play sports and move on to professional careers with no concern for academics.

Try again.

I didn't know we get to pick and choose who's grades we look at, so all athletes don't count because none of them give a shit about academics.  Gotcha, brainiac.    I'll pass on trying to further the discussion w you.  You can play with yourself.  

[Beaker]

(06-09-2015, 09:49 AM)Ben Richards Wrote: I didn't know we get to pick and choose who's grades we look at, so all athletes don't count because none of them give a shit about academics.  Gotcha, brainiac.    I'll pass on trying to further the discussion w you.  You can play with yourself.  

Sorry the scope of the logical comparison overwhelmed you. If you can't figure out why grades for fake classes shouldn't be considered then your passing on further discussion with me will be a blessing...and to many others too.

[Ben Richards]

You are really naive, no wonder you have a Sesame St name.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-08-2015, 11:40 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: source

40% of Americans earn less than 1968 minimum wage

That doesn't count.....everyone is lazy.....


"What we really need to do is to return to the principles that once made this country great. In early America, we protected our markets with high tariffs. Access to the U.S. market was a privilege. Foreign domination was kept out, and our economy thrived."

......I've been saying this since ten minutes after NAFTA was passed......Germany does this.....

[Beaker]

(06-09-2015, 10:32 AM)Ben Richards Wrote: You are really naive, no wonder you have a Sesame St name.

Easier for guys like you to understand.

[Ben Richards]

(06-09-2015, 10:38 AM)Beaker Wrote: Easier for guys like you to understand.

You don't know me dickwad.  Take your kiddie mentality back to Sesame St and **** off.

[Beaker]

(06-09-2015, 10:50 AM)Ben Richards Wrote: You don't know me dickwad.  Take your kiddie mentality back to Sesame St and **** off.

I know you obviously have to be way more mature than me with that well thought out response.


Maybe you should have attempted to make more of an effort at higher education....for as long as you wanted. Then those basic concepts of logic wouldn't have so easily escaped you.

[SteelCitySouth]

Ben Richards:

The man that asks you to save room for his fist, while consistently ending up with other people's fists lodged firmly up his arse.

Oh we know you Ben...We know you all too well. You need to eat more greens.

[Ben Richards]

OOooooh attacking my education! Again, you don't know me. I know that you seem to be some naive moron that believes only athletes could be subjected to fake classes and passing grades for doing nothing. Hey, it's just athletes....(insert cliche) they aren't at a place designed for education to get an education!


The fact that you even mentioned logic is amusing.

[Beaker]

(06-09-2015, 11:08 AM)Ben Richards Wrote: OOooooh attacking my education!  Again, you don't know me.  I know that you seem to be some naive moron that believes only athletes could be subjected to fake classes and passing grades for doing nothing.  Hey, it's just athletes....(insert cliche)  they aren't at a place designed for education to get an education!


The fact that you even mentioned logic is amusing.

So grades for fake classes for people other than athletes should be counted? Gotcha genius.

[JustWinBaby]

I'm not sure what fake classes have to do with free college for as long as you want and need. The entire idea behind investing in education is that you'll eventually do something productive with what you learned...you know, an expectation of a societal return as opposed to a free handout. Otherwise this is just enrollment in college as a qualification for unlimited welfare.