Meanwhile Trump's people do the dirty work...

[Vlad]

(07-01-2017, 07:17 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, constitutional law and statutory law are different. You are correct about the part ofthe Constitution, though. All (IIRC) of the federal statutory law on elections is regarding behavior of the campaigns themselves and what day the election is held on. Everything else is up to the states.

Yeah Dill, stop guessing!

[Dill]

(07-01-2017, 09:59 AM)Vlad Wrote: That's right Dill, I was making an assumption.

Me personally, I am more appreciative of a poster who makes clear he is assuming than one who thinks he knows it all.

(06-30-2017, 08:26 PM)Vlad Wrote: Don't stay up waiting. State rights folks are smart enough to know what is a state right and what is not.

You vote for the president of the United States, you play by the Federal Governments rules.

(06-30-2017, 08:57 PM)Vlad Wrote: Voter suppression is a crock. Voter fraud is real. To the extent fraud is occurring I don't know.
Thats what Trumps gonna find out.

[Dill]

(07-01-2017, 09:43 AM)Vlad Wrote: States oversee their own law enforcement as well, but does not the FBI become involved when deemed necessary?
That is all I'm saying.
 

The federal government is involved whenever there is need to guarantee the integrity of the election process. That's is why it can issue legislation like the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and the National Voter Registration Act of 1993, as well as to prosecute voter suppression of citizens' civil right to vote.

No analogy is perfect, but your FBI analogy is especially appropriate insofar as it is the FBI which is "deemed necessary" to investigate and prosecute violations of civil rights, including voter suppression as well as voter/ballot fraud.

The problem now is we have a president who neither respects nor understands social science, and so can direct the power and the resources of the federal government away from demonstrable violations of election integrity like voter suppression and towards conspiracy theories of voter fraud--along the way demanding the kind of personal information typically used for voter suppression.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2017/06/21/voter-suppression-and-election-integrity-commission/

[GMDino]

(07-01-2017, 10:49 AM)Dill Wrote: The federal government is involved whenever there is need to guarantee the integrity of the election process. That's is why it can issue legislation like the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and the National Voter Registration Act of 1993, as well as to prosecute voter suppression of citizens' civil right to vote.

No analogy is perfect, but your FBI analogy is especially appropriate insofar as it is the FBI which is "deemed necessary" to investigate and prosecute violations of civil rights, including voter suppression as well as voter/ballot fraud.

The problem now is we have a president who neither respects nor understands social science, and so can direct the power and the resources of the federal government away from demonstrable violations of election integrity like voter suppression and towards conspiracy theories of voter fraud--along the way demanding the kind of personal information typically used for voter suppression.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2017/06/21/voter-suppression-and-election-integrity-commission/

So if a state asked the feds for help because they had some proof of massive voter fraud they could come in.  Am I interpreting that right?

[Belsnickel]

(07-01-2017, 12:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: So if a state asked the feds for help because they had some proof of massive voter fraud they could come in.  Am I interpreting that right?

Yes, and that is how it works. We had a case here, recently. Local authorities found out, handed it off to the Feds. States and localities monitor elections and alert the Feds if there is anything amiss. This is the reason that this whole thing is ridiculous. The state supreme would know if there were the issues that are being claimed.

This is either an attempt for Trump to try to justify his popular election loss or an attempt to supreme voters since the two main folks on this are known for doing just that. Could be both.

[Dill]

(07-01-2017, 12:47 PM)GMDino Wrote: So if a state asked the feds for help because they had some proof of massive voter fraud they could come in.  Am I interpreting that right?

That has actually happened.

When there is voter suppression, and there is at least one federal office on the ballot, there is no "ask"; the Federal gov will investigate and prosecute so far as I know, often against the will of state officials.

But states are for the most part responsible for investigating and prosecuting their own election fraud, of which voter fraud is a sub-category.  However, if there is claimed evidence of massive, voter fraud, there appears to be no "ask" there either. Especially if it appears organized. Just convince the feds there is evidence and they will come--even if the evidence is bogus.  https://web.archive.org/web/20050324134344/http://www.ac4vr.com/news/acvrnews032105.html
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/voter-suppression-kevin-drum/

There are often reports of massive voter fraud in various states, but unlike cases of voter suppression, these have generally been quashed at the level of preliminary investigation.  The federal government has conducted at least one nationwide investigation, bowing to partisan complaints that the National Voter Registration Act of 93 had opened the floodgates to illegals, especially in Florida. http://billmoyers.com/2015/07/31/how-the-2000-election-in-florida-new-wave-voter-disenfranchisement/

That was AG John Ashcroft's nationwide inquiry into voter fraud which turned up about 25 cases. That ended badly in scandal as it bled into the questionable firing of state prosecutors by the next AG Alberto Gonzales, who was forced then to resign.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/opinion/voting-fraud-inquiry-the-investigators-got-burned-last-time.html

[GMDino]

Also interestingly (maybe to only me) Kansas is not participating.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/07/01/trump-says-states-are-trying-to-hide-things-from-his-voter-fraud-commission-heres-what-they-actually-say/?utm_term=.4985876762ea&wpisrc=nl_most-draw14&wpmm=1

Quote:Perhaps most strikingly, at least two of the holdouts were members of the commission, including commission co-chairman Kris Kobach himself, who said that state law prevented them from fully complying with the request.


The Kansas secretary of state, a Republican, told the Kansas City Star on Friday that he would not be providing any parts of Kansas voters' Social Security numbers because that data is not publicly available under state law. “In Kansas, the Social Security number is not publicly available,” he said. “Every state receives the same letter, but we’re not asking for it if it’s not publicly available.”

Similarly, Indiana Secretary of State Connie Lawson said in a statement that “Indiana law doesn't permit the Secretary of State to provide the personal information requested by Secretary Kobach.” Lawson, another Republican, is also a member of the commission.

Trump's tweet suggests the commission's work remains a top priority for him. That's going to cause concern for elections experts and voting rights activists, many of whom are concerned that Kobach will use the state voter registration data to manufacture “evidence” of widespread voter fraud.

Also...

Quote:Just a week ago, a federal judge fined Kobach $1,000 for “presenting misleading arguments in a voting-related lawsuit.”

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-01-2017, 02:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: Also interestingly (maybe to only me) Kansas is not participating.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/07/01/trump-says-states-are-trying-to-hide-things-from-his-voter-fraud-commission-heres-what-they-actually-say/?utm_term=.4985876762ea&wpisrc=nl_most-draw14&wpmm=1






Also...

From Trump's twitter tantrum . . .

"Numerous states are refusing to give information to the very distinguished VOTER FRAUD PANEL. What are they trying to hide?"

Maybe Trump's tax returns?

[Dill]

(07-01-2017, 02:19 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Yes, and that is how it works. We had a case here, recently. Local authorities found out, handed it off to the Feds. States and localities monitor elections and alert the Feds if there is anything amiss. This is the reason that this whole thing is ridiculous. The state supreme would know if there were the issues that are being claimed.

This is either an attempt for Trump to try to justify his popular election loss or an attempt to supreme voters since the two main folks on this are known for doing just that. Could be both.

LOL did you mean to "screen" voters? Another victim of automatic spell check.

Justifying the popular vote loss may not be going as hoped. The Kansas legislature has given its Secretary of State special powers to prosecute the massive voter fraud in that sate. From the hundreds of thousands of votes cast, he has already found three Republicans who double voted for Trump. http://www.governing.com/topics/politics/tns-kansas-kris-kobach-voter-fraud.html

[Belsnickel]

(07-01-2017, 03:02 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL did you mean to "screen" voters? Another victim of automatic spell check.

Justifying the popular vote loss may not be going as hoped. The Kansas legislature has given its Secretary of State special powers to prosecute the massive voter fraud in that sate. From the hundreds of thousands of votes cast, he has already found three Republicans who double voted for Trump. http://www.governing.com/topics/politics/tns-kansas-kris-kobach-voter-fraud.html

Actually, that was supposed to be "suppress." This is one of the many reasons I try not to post from my iPad,

[Dill]

(07-01-2017, 02:54 PM)GMDino Wrote: Also interestingly (maybe to only me) Kansas is not participating.

Kansas is an especially interesting point of resistance since there Secretary of State Kovach has been one of the prime apostles of massive voter fraud.

Seems like in the Executive branch these days the small right hand doesn't know what the small left hand is doing.

[Bengalzona]

(07-01-2017, 03:53 PM)Dill Wrote: Kansas is an especially interesting point of resistance since there Secretary of State Kovach has been one of the prime apostles of massive voter fraud.

Seems like in the Executive branch these days the small right hand doesn't know what the small left hand is doing.

Seventies Hippie Putin is mildly perturbed with you:

[Belsnickel]

(07-01-2017, 03:53 PM)Dill Wrote: Kansas is an especially interesting point of resistance since there Secretary of State Kovach has been one of the prime apostles of massive voter fraud.

Seems like in the Executive branch these days the small right hand doesn't know what the small left hand is doing.

Well, this is an issue where there are those against this because they have not seen the evidence of voter fraud to warrant a large scale action, and then there are those against it because of states' rights. The two aren't mutually exclusive, but added together they make up just about the entire country. Well, those that aren't blindly following Trump.

[Dill]

(07-01-2017, 04:13 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Seventies Hippie Putin is mildly perturbed with you:

NOOO! Where did you find that picture.  Reminds me of Illya Kuryakin.

[Bengalzona]

(07-01-2017, 10:33 PM)Dill Wrote: NOOO! Where did you find that picture.  Reminds me of Illya Kuryakin.

Believe it or not, that comes from a Russian friend of mine. 

BTW - That is actually Putin and was taken in 1970.

[Dill]

(07-02-2017, 11:51 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Believe it or not, that comes from a Russian friend of mine. 

BTW - That is actually Putin and was taken in 1970.

Oh I believe you.  A sinister 17 year old. That had to come from one of his buddies. Rare.

Wonder if those pants are bell bottoms.