Mental Health Treatment in the US

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-08-2017, 02:04 PM)GMDino Wrote: Are they going door to door confiscating guns?  No?  Not coming for your guns then.

The semantic argument, the last refuge of the defeated.

Quote:I'd be interested in what the impact has been.

As it reads it is non-violent offenders and for good behavior.

Did you read what it actually covers?  "Non-violent" it ain't.

Quote:  Has the impact really been "huge"? And in what ways.  Genuinely curious.

I can tell you first hand it's been bad.  Add to the mix the fact that criminals are now feeling emboldened by the perceived lack of consequences.  We've literally had people tell us that we can't "do shit to us anymore".

[GMDino]

(02-08-2017, 02:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The semantic argument, the last refuge of the defeated.

Yeah, telling the truth is "semantics".

(02-08-2017, 02:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Did you read what it actually covers?  "Non-violent" it ain't.

I did.  

https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_57,_Parole_for_Non-Violent_Criminals_and_Juvenile_Court_Trial_Requirements_(2016)

Quote:The California Parole for Non-Violent Criminals and Juvenile Court Trial Requirements Initiative, also known as Proposition 57, was on the November 8, 2016, ballot in California as a combined initiated constitutional amendment and state statute. It was approved.

A "yes" vote supported increasing parole and good behavior opportunities for felons convicted of nonviolent crimes and allowing judges, not prosecutors, to decide whether to try certain juveniles as adults in court.

A "no" vote opposed this measure increasing parole and good behavior opportunities for felons convicted of nonviolent crimes and favored keeping the current system of having prosecutors decide whether to try certain juveniles as adults in court.

...

Changes to state law
Proposition 57 increased parole chances for felons convicted of nonviolent crimes and gave them more opportunities to earn credits for good behavior. It also allowed judges, not prosecutors, to decide whether to try certain juveniles as adults in court.[2]

...

Inmate releases
The measure was designed to make individuals convicted of nonviolent felony crimes who served full sentences for their primary offense and passed screening for public security eligible for parole. That made about 7,000 inmates immediately eligible, according to The Associated Press.[3]

Prison numbers dropped after California voters approved Proposition 47 in 2014, which reduced nonviolent, nonserious crimes to misdemeanors and gave more inmates a higher chance for parole consideration. Proposition 57 was partly another response to the 2009 federal order mandating that California reduce its prison population numbers.[1]

Additionally, Proposition 57 allowed inmates to earn credits for good behavior and educational or rehabilitative achievements. "Its essence is to provide an incentive," said Gov. Jerry Brown (D), who spearheaded the campaign.[2][1] The measure provided for inmates to use credits to reduce time spent in prison.

Number of inmates affected
Using numbers from early 2016, there were about 25,000 nonviolent state felons that could seek early release and parole under Proposition 57.[4]

Juvenile trial changes
The measure was designed to make judges, rather than prosecutors, decide whether to try juveniles as young as 14 years old in adult court. Prosecutors were given the right to directly file charges against juvenile offenders in adult court when voters approved Proposition 21 in 2000.[1]

(02-08-2017, 02:52 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I can tell you first hand it's been bad.  Add to the mix the fact that criminals are now feeling emboldened by the perceived lack of consequences.  We've literally had people tell us that we can't "do shit to us anymore".

So then I looked for the huge impacts it was causing:

http://www.redding.com/story/news/local/2016/12/11/prop-57-impacts-still-months-away/95147862/

Quote:Prop. 57 impacts won't be felt anytime soon
Sean J Longoria , Redding 8:23 a.m. PT Dec. 11, 2016

Whatever impacts may come from the expansion of parole eligibility under Proposition 57 – including fears of thousands of inmates suddenly hitting the streets — won’t be felt for a while.

The measure, which passed by a margin of nearly 4 million votes statewide, requires the California Department of Correction and Rehabilitation to craft rules governing who would be eligible for parole based on the law, which grants such consideration to those convicted of nonviolent felonies.

“Until that regulatory process is finalized, which would involve public comment, we’re in a holding pattern,” said Jeffrey Callison, assistant secretary of communications for the CDCR.

The measure also allows prison officials to award credit for good behavior, rehabilitation and education. Those rules are also pending the CDCR’s crafting of regulations.

Callison said he couldn’t estimate how long that process may take.

“There’s no set date for it to be concluded,” he said.

That’s of little comfort to Shasta County Sheriff Tom Bosenko, who remains staunchly opposed to Prop. 57.

"We saw an increase in crime with AB109 and Proposition 47, and I believe we’ll see an increase in crime with Prop. 57,” Bosenko said, referring to the state's shift to move nonviolent inmates to county supervision and the 2014 ballot measure that reclassified certain drug and property felonies to misdemeanors.

Shasta County was one of 15 California counties where a majority of voters opposed Prop. 57, which passed by strong margins in more populated areas, including greater Los Angeles and the Bay Area, according to the California Secretary of State.

Once the rules are crafted, the CDCR will put them out for public comment. People have already asked the CDCR about the impacts of the law.

“We do get calls from inmate family members and others,” Callison said.

Through May, 10 prison inmates from Shasta County are scheduled for parole hearings, though nearly all of those convictions are for murder, explicitly defined by the state penal code as violent. Prop. 57 covers nonviolent felonies, which aren’t defined.

So far the only attempt to define which convictions would become eligible for expanded parole has come from the California District Attorneys Association, which leaned on state penal code that explicitly defines about two dozen violent crimes.

That list was a lynchpin for the opposition campaign, as it cited violent offenses, including those convicted of raping an unconscious person, arson and assaulting a police or firefighter with a deadly weapon, as eligible for early release under Prop. 57.

Bosenko said he hasn’t heard from the state which convictions may qualify, though he's still concerned that violent offenses will be on the list.

“It’s difficult to grasp on how assault with a deadly weapon, rape of an unconscious person and other crimes like that are now nonviolent.”

Callison reiterated, though, that the eligible convictions will be determined by forthcoming regulations.

“Prop. 57 will be implemented through regulations and we have not yet published draft regulations,” he said. “Until those regulations happen it is what it is right now.”

Prop. 57 also gave judges the power to decide whether those younger than 18 can be tried as adults, a decision that used to be up to prosecutors.

That part of the measure came into play just this week in Shasta County, as a 16-year-old Redding boy accused of trying to rape and kill a 56-year-old woman in August had his adult felony case thrown back to Juvenile Court to decide how his case should be handled.

Prosecutors in August originally opted to charge the teen as an adult because of the severity of his alleged crimes.

So right now it's not even in effect fully yet.  Not sure how that reflects a "huge impact".  I mean dumb criminals might be running their mouths because they don't understand it either.  I suppose that make your job harder.  But it seems like a bit of an over reaction to say its already having a "huge impact".

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-08-2017, 03:02 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yeah, telling the truth is "semantics".

Not what you're doing. 

Quote:I did.  

https://ballotpedia.org/California_Proposition_57,_Parole_for_Non-Violent_Criminals_and_Juvenile_Court_Trial_Requirements_(2016)

Got it, you don't consider child sex trafficking, rape or assault with a deadly weapon to be violent offenses.  I'm sure the victims of these crimes feel differently, but who cares about them?

Quote:So then I looked for the huge impacts it was causing:

http://www.redding.com/story/news/local/2016/12/11/prop-57-impacts-still-months-away/95147862/

So right now it's not even in effect fully yet.  Not sure how that reflects a "huge impact".  I mean dumb criminals might be running their mouths because they don't understand it either.  I suppose that make your job harder.  But it seems like a bit of an over reaction to say its already having a "huge impact".

Considering I'm actually dealing with it and you're reading articles on the internet forgive me if I find your argument less than convincing.  Parole agents aren't allowed to detain anymore, probation officers aren't allowed to detain or violate anymore, adult murderers who committed their crimes years ago are going back to juvenile court.  The pendulum has swung way too far on this issue, the criminal justice system, especially in CA, is becoming a mollycoddling nightmare.  Feel free to quote more internet articles about how my everyday experiences are wrong though.

[GMDino]

(02-08-2017, 03:20 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Not what you're doing. 




Got it, you don't consider child sex trafficking, rape or assault with a deadly weapon to be violent offenses.  I'm sure the victims of these crimes feel differently, but who cares about them?


Considering I'm actually dealing with it and you're reading articles on the internet forgive me if I find your argument less than convincing.  Parole agents aren't allowed to detain anymore, probation officers aren't allowed to detain or violate anymore, adult murderers who committed their crimes years ago are going back to juvenile court.  The pendulum has swung way too far on this issue, the criminal justice system, especially in CA, is becoming a mollycoddling nightmare.  Feel free to quote more internet articles about how my everyday experiences are wrong though.

Yeah, it's not in effect yet.

But you're not interested in that I guess because you know it already has had a "huge impact".  Not like you to overreact to things.

Have a nice day.

Edit: I addressed the child trafficking. Not sure why you keep bringing it up with relation to this or the government not taking your guns.

Edit 2: Full text: https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/initiatives/pdfs/15-0121%20%28Prison%20Sentence%20Reform%29_1.pdf

[GMDino]

A thread on how we treat people with mental health problems has devolved into how we shouldn't look at non-mandatory sentencing for nonviolent offenders.

Welcome to PnR!  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-08-2017, 03:22 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yeah, it's not in effect yet.

Incorrect.  Parts of it are not in effect, parts of it went into effect immediately upon it being passed.  Thanks for telling me I don't see what I see every day though.

Quote:But you're not interested in that I guess because you know it already has had a "huge impact".  Not like you to overreact to things.

Have a nice day.

I dig it when you condescend to me. 

Quote:Edit:  I addressed the child trafficking. Not sure why you keep bringing it up with relation to this or the government not taking your guns.

Edit 2: Full text:  https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/initiatives/pdfs/15-0121%20%28Prison%20Sentence%20Reform%29_1.pdf

Never get tired of being wrong do you?  It must be lonely on that island of make believe now that your mentor is gone.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(02-08-2017, 03:26 PM)GMDino Wrote: A thread on how we treat people with mental health problems has devolved into how we shouldn't look at non-mandatory sentencing for nonviolent offenders.

Welcome to PnR!  

Complains about thread being derailed, actively participates in said derailment. 

[Rotobeast]

(02-08-2017, 03:22 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yeah, it's not in effect yet.

But you're not interested in that I guess because you know it already has had a "huge impact".

Not unlike a certain "wall" debate.



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