Mental Health Treatment in the US

[Belsnickel]

I posted something to Facebook a little bit ago, I wanted to share:

Quote:I had jury duty today, and when we were told it was a civil case I was happy because even if I was one of the seven chosen out of thirty, the consequences of the decision would be monetary rather than someone being imprisoned if we found against them. I was chosen for the jury, and I was wrong.

Rarely, the Commonwealth must present a case before a jury for someone to be involuntarily committed for inpatient mental treatment. This was one of those cases in which we had to decide whether someone was enough of a danger to themselves or others, either purposefully or through negligence, to be involuntarily committed to Western State for up to thirty days.

After having been in inpatient treatment at least three times previous to the incident that initiated this case, the respondent had fallen into behavior of not continuing their treatment and so engaged in behavior that landed them back in the hospital. Obviously, the system was failing the respondent and the lack of any advocate beyond their counsel present indicated a lack of support outside of the system as well.

It was a very difficult thing to commit the respondent to Western State. It was the correct decision, of that I have no doubt, but why should we think there will be a different result? The mental health system is failing us in this state, and in this country, and today was just a reminder of that. This was taking someone's freedom, their liberty, away without them having committed a crime, and that was a very hard thing.

We don't have enough space, enough beds, enough doctors, enough nurses, enough money, going into our mental health care system. Far too often we hear stories about people that aren't receiving the treatment they need and they end up hurting themselves or others. This was a fortunate circumstance in which that hadn't happened, yet. But it just served as a reminder to me at how the system is failing so many people when it comes to mental illness.

Anyway, just wanted to share.

[GMDino]

But we have to build a wall.





And as awful as that sounds there is going to be money for that...but not take care of the least among us that need the most help.

Because some people think everyone's problems are simply a matter of not trying hard enough...so why should *I* care.

And it sucks.

[SunsetBengal]

It's all about the money. It cost money to have institutions to house and care for the mentally ill. There is no profit to be gained from it. Most of those people seem perfectly normal, when properly medicated. However, once released, they are on their own decisions. I have a relative that suffered from Bipolar all of her life, even though it wasn't diagnosed until the mid 1980's. She was fine, as long as she stayed current on her meds. However, left to her own devices, she would often eschew those meds and prefer to feel her "natural" self. Long story short, she slipped into dementia at a relatively early age, and has been locked in an Alzheimer's protective unit since 2004. This lady is currently 69.

[Belsnickel]

(02-03-2017, 10:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's all about the money. It cost money to have institutions to house and care for the mentally ill. There is no profit to be gained from it. Most of those people seem perfectly normal, when properly medicated. However, once released, they are on their own decisions. I have a relative that suffered from Bipolar all of her life, even though it wasn't diagnosed until the mid 1980's. She was fine, as long as she stayed current on her meds. However, left to her own devices, she would often eschew those meds and prefer to feel her "natural" self. Long story short, she slipped into dementia at a relatively early age, and has been locked in an Alzheimer's protective unit since 2004. This lady is currently 69.

This particular person was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, and upon being discharged from the local mental health hospital promptly disregarded her lithium. She was, based upon testimony, much better than when admitted, but not ready to be discharged according to the doctors. She was still in a manic phase in the courtroom, and it was difficult to watch. Even though she insists her sister and her children will help her out, none of them were there today for a case determining her freedom. I fear that she will end up in the same predicament, and she is 57. The same age your relative likely was when she went in.

[*bfine32*]

(02-03-2017, 09:53 PM)GMDino Wrote: But we have to build a wall.





And as awful as that sounds there is going to be money for that...but not take care of the least among us that need the most help.

Because some people think everyone's problems are simply a matter of not trying hard enough...so why should *I* care.

And it sucks.

Or we could keep out illegal immigrants and use some of the $113 BILLON we spend annually on the matter.
http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers

Some people like to blame those that are not like-minded for the problems our Country faces.

As to the OP: Mental health is a huge issue and needs to be addressed; unfortunately, you cannot save everyone. In the military community it is a very important topic (everyone has read the numbers).

IDK the answer, but hopefully there are folks working it. What I have been told is that most medical plans pay for 12 mental health visits a year and folks rarely know this and/or take advantage of it. I'm not ashamed to admit I've been through some dark times, but I sought help.

[GMDino]

(02-04-2017, 10:48 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Or we could keep out illegal immigrants and use some of the $113 BILLON we spend annually on the matter.
http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers

Some people like to blame those that are not like-minded for the problems our Country faces.

As to the OP: Mental health is a huge issue and needs to be addressed; unfortunately, you cannot save everyone. In the military community it is a very important topic (everyone has read the numbers).

IDK the answer, but hopefully there are folks working it. What I have been told is that most medical plans pay for 12 mental health visits a year and folks rarely know this and/or take advantage of it. I'm not ashamed to admit I've been through some dark times, but I sought help.

Some people get their feelings hurt even if they weren't being talked about.

Usually a result of a guilty conscience.

As to the topic: We've been cutting funding for mental health for 40 years.  Blaming it on an estimated number based on a guess for this year is missing the point.

[*bfine32*]

(02-04-2017, 10:50 AM)GMDino Wrote: As to the topic: We've been cutting funding for mental health for 40 years.  Blaming it on an estimated number based on a guess for this year is missing the point.

But pointing to a wall is getting the point?

No idea how you summized my feelings were hurt and/or that I felt guilty about anything. What's that you said about a point?

[GMDino]

(02-04-2017, 11:29 AM)bfine32 Wrote: But pointing to a wall is getting the point?

No idea how you summized my feelings were hurt and/or that I felt guilty about anything. What's that you said about a point?

The wall is a current expenditure.

Something we (allegedly) need more than taking care of the mentally ill (as well as hundreds of other things).

The (alleged) cost of taking care of illegal immigrants is moot as we've been cutting mental health spending since the Reagan Administration.

What can we do *now*?  Not spend billions on a wall that serves no purpose and if we have that kind of funding fix ourselves first.

Point.

[*bfine32*]

(02-04-2017, 11:34 AM)GMDino Wrote: The wall is a current expenditure.

Something we (allegedly) need more than taking care of the mentally ill (as well as hundreds of other things).

The (alleged) cost of taking care of illegal immigrants is moot as we've been cutting mental health spending since the Reagan Administration.

What can we do *now*?  Not spend billions on a wall that serves no purpose and if we have that kind of funding fix ourselves first.

Point.

We currently spend money to support immigrants here illegally; hell, that currently costs more than a proposal.

Of course there is a point to directing the "wall money"; however, the counterpoint of using the money spent on what the wall is designed to curb is equally valid and in no way "misses the point".

It's just that you want your "Trump Bad" point to be the only point (see where I said likeminded); fortunately, more open-minded folks know there are usually at least 2 sides to every issue and reducing money on supporting illegal immigration by curbing it is a very valid one.

I pretty sure Trump made mental health one of his priorities in his canpaign; I know he did for Veterans. You just cannot acknowledge this; because it would make your constant presence here "moot".

But enough about that. Mental health is an issue and one this administration has vowed to reform; as a matter of fact, he is constantly talking about what he is going to do for Americans; often at the expense of non-Americans.

[GMDino]

(02-04-2017, 12:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We currently spend money to support immigrants here illegally; hell, that currently costs more than a proposal.

Of course there is a point to directing the "wall money"; however, the counterpoint of using the money spent on what the wall is designed to curb is equally valid and in no way "misses the point".

It's just that you want your "Trump Bad" point to be the only point (see where I said likeminded); fortunately, more open-minded folks know there are usually at least 2 sides to every issue and reducing money on supporting illegal immigration by curbing it is a very valid one.

I pretty sure Trump made mental health one of his priorities in his canpaign; I know he did for Veterans. You just cannot acknowledge this; because it would make your constant presence here "moot".

But enough about that. Mental health is an issue and one this administration has vowed to reform; as a matter of fact, he is constantly talking about what he is going to do for Americans; often at the expense of non-Americans.

I suppose if there were something that showed the wall would actually do what you and like minded folks say it will that could be a valid argument.

Pointing out that illegal immigration is already down and dropping and that those same immigrants also pay other taxes that help keep up the economy could be see as reasons a wall would do more harm than good.

However it's not as simple as "Trump bad".  It's bad policy from the top down on an entire side of the aisle.

Now as yo his wanting to make mental health a priority, especially with veteran:

https://newrepublic.com/article/140357/donald-trump-no-friend-veterans

Quote:His hiring freeze has had an impact on former service members, who make up one third of the federal workforce.


President Donald Trump loves veterans, or at least that’s what he would have us believe. “You’re amazing people, great people,” he told the Retired American Warriors PAC last October. “Our veterans, in many cases, are being treated worse than illegal immigrants, people that come into our country illegally,” he said last September. “Honor their valor,” his foundation’s website still insists.


...


It worked. Veterans voted for him by a two-to-one margin and were critical in helping him win office. Several told Reveal they liked his anti-establishment edge and conservative rhetoric: “All I know is that Trump is sending fear into the very status quo special interests I despise,” a Gulf War veteran explained.


And then he froze most federal hiring.

---

The Military Times reported last November that veterans now comprise roughly one third of the federal workforce—or more than 600,000 positions—a testament to the success of projects like former President Barack Obama’s Veteran Employment Initiative. These job opportunities are critical for veterans, but it also leaves them particularly vulnerable to political turmoil. The GOP-driven budget sequestration in 2013 forced the federal workforce, including veterans, to take pay cuts; it also forced many active-duty servicemembers to leave the service early. For similar reasons, any federal hiring freeze—even a temporary one, like Trump’s executive order—inevitably affects veterans. And though there are exemptions to the 90-day freeze, it’s not yet clear if these exemptions will be enough to mitigate the damage.


“This is going to really impact veterans in a negative way,” Peter Kauffmann, a former U.S. Navy officer and current senior adviser to VoteVets.org, told the New Republic. “By freezing hiring, you’re cutting off one path for veterans leaving military service to transition into civilian life.”


Now many veterans must find their way in the dark.


And employment isn’t the only need the hiring freeze will leave unmet. At the VA, Kauffmann said, there are “thousands” of open positions that now will not be filled. “Keeping in mind the devastating impact of PTSD on a generation of veterans? If we can’t staff suicide hotlines this may cost the lives of veterans,” he said. “That’s not hyperbolic. That’s actually true.”


“Right now there are 45,000 vacancies at the VA that need to be filled immediately. This freeze will only make wait times longer and accessing care more difficult,” Will Fischer of the Union Veterans Council concurred.

On January 27, VA Acting Secretary Robert Snyder released an extensive list of VA positions exempt from the freeze. It may add more in the days to come: In a statement provided to the New Republic, the VA says it “intends to exempt anyone it deems necessary for public health and safety, including frontline caregivers.” But this hasn’t been enough to alleviate concerns about the department’s ability to function.

So...lot's of talk.  But his actions did the opposite of what he said he would because (again) he didn't think it through or execute it properly.

[HarleyDog]

(02-03-2017, 09:28 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I posted something to Facebook a little bit ago, I wanted to share:


We don't have enough space, enough beds, enough doctors, enough nurses, enough money, going into our mental health care system. Far too often we hear stories about people that aren't receiving the treatment they need and they end up hurting themselves or others. This was a fortunate circumstance in which that hadn't happened, yet. But it just served as a reminder to me at how the system is failing so many people when it comes to mental illness.

Anyway, just wanted to share.

Of course this didn't happen and you made this story up right? If I remember right, when I was on jury duty, you agree to keep all matters of the trial and its outcomes confidential. Knowing you are the upstanding citizen who cares about the laws and the ethics of the land, I assume you would not break such a trust the legal system had in you. Therefore, you made this up hoping someone would bring up building a wall and discussing how the money would be beneficial elsewhere. Right?

[CageTheBengal]

Coming from a family that has a few people dealing with mental illness I can say that this is a subject that is woefully neglected in this country. It's a hard thing to really have a firm grasp on though until you see it first hand over an extended period of time and even then it's hard to understand so I can see why it isn't the first thing on people's minds.

On the flip-side though both the people in my family dealing with mental illness need to have their arms twisted to get help. They want to go about life like they don't have an issue when they do and that in itself is a huge stumbling block. They can be fine for a few weeks but then gradually slip into their depressive state before they or their family members can recognize what's happening and before you know it they're deep into a state.

In the grand scale of things learning about mental health is still pretty new and there are lots of mysteries left to be solved about the human brain, we are making a lot of progress though. I think over time society will start to understand that not every illness can be seen or has obvious side-effects.

I saw a video report about vets suffering from PTSD who started experimental treatments with LSD and Ecstasy. They would give them very small doses and have a psychologist monitor them and basically lead a therapy session while they were in this state of mind. It was all very new but the first results were promising.

[treee]

I think we could completely restructure the DEA and the 'drug war' to revitalize many of our health services. Some way of diverting funding from our 'Prison Complex' into rehabilitation services of all kinds seems pretty logical to me.

[Benton]

And there's this part of the issue.

http://thehill.com/regulation/317634-house-republicans-block-obama-era-gun-rule

Quote:The House voted 235-180 to roll back a rule that required the Social Security Administration to report people who receive disability benefits and have a mental health condition to the FBI’s background check system. The database is used to determine eligibility for buying a firearm.

Then: Mentally ill, and the government knows? You get a background check. If you're a risk to others, no gun. Not? Here's your firearm, take your meds!
Now: Mentally ill, and the government knows? Here's your firearm. Enjoy!

Every gun store owner and law enforcement official I've talked to about gun violence has the same answer: more background checks. If we as a society aren't going to address treating the mentally ill, we need to at least deal with the fallout from that.

[*wildcats forever*]

(02-04-2017, 03:21 PM)Benton Wrote: And there's this part of the issue.

http://thehill.com/regulation/317634-house-republicans-block-obama-era-gun-rule


Then: Mentally ill, and the government knows? You get a background check. If you're a risk to others, no gun. Not? Here's your firearm, take your meds!
Now: Mentally ill, and the government knows? Here's your firearm. Enjoy!

Every gun store owner and law enforcement official I've talked to about gun violence has the same answer: more background checks. If we as a society aren't going to address treating the mentally ill, we need to at least deal with the fallout from that.

How do we get out of the loop that says "they're coming to take our guns" ??  Hasn't enough time gone by to prove that isn't the case? 

My favorite proposal was/is to treat guns as we treat regulating car ownership. Both provide enjoyment and both can cause harm if misused. Registration and insurance speaks to responsible ownership. What's not to like? Keeping the background check in place only enhances intended safety for others.

[Belsnickel]

(02-04-2017, 10:48 AM)bfine32 Wrote: As to the OP: Mental health is a huge issue and needs to be addressed; unfortunately, you cannot save everyone. In the military community it is a very important topic (everyone has read the numbers).

IDK the answer, but hopefully there are folks working it. What I have been told is that most medical plans pay for 12 mental health visits a year and folks rarely know this and/or take advantage of it. I'm not ashamed to admit I've been through some dark times, but I sought help.

I've dealt with some dark times myself, including currently. I dealt with it in my teenage years and early twenties, then lost insurance so stopped getting help and just grew to deal with it. For a little over a year, though, things have gotten a bit worse and so I've had to seek help. We're fortunate we're able and willing to get that help. That isn't the truth for far too many.

(02-04-2017, 12:41 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Of course this didn't happen and you made this story up right? If I remember right, when I was on jury duty, you agree to keep all matters of the trial and its outcomes confidential. Knowing you are the upstanding citizen who cares about the laws and the ethics of the land, I assume you would not break such a trust the legal system had in you. Therefore, you made this up hoping someone would bring up building a wall and discussing how the money would be beneficial elsewhere. Right?

Actually, after the case is over, unless you are given specific instructions regarding a gag order, you can speak to anyone about the case. At least here in Virginia we don't have any laws against speaking about the case after it has been concluded and I could have actually gone so far as to name the respondent if I so chose. I wouldn't do that, but there is nothing that would prevent me from doing so legally. I will add her name to a prayer card at my church, though. I won't specify why, but I feel like it's the least I can do.

But, as much as I find the wall to be a money pit, I think this is more of a state issue. Money for mental health care is a state budget concern and should really remain that way. It's just a sad truth that every state has shortfalls with regards to this issue and so it makes it something that everyone should be aware of.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

Guys, relax. We're not payin' for no stinking' wall.

And trials are public record.

[*michaelsean*]

I'm just going off memory here, but didn't we have a perfect storm of conservatives who didn't want to pay for mental hospitals and liberals who didn't think they should exist? People with severe psychosis are unable to take care of themselves in the day to day world without assistance. Be that from a Dr, drugs, a hospital or a combination. I always thought it was our duty to take care of those who can't take care of themselves.

[Rotobeast]

(02-04-2017, 03:21 PM)Benton Wrote: And there's this part of the issue.

http://thehill.com/regulation/317634-house-republicans-block-obama-era-gun-rule


Then: Mentally ill, and the government knows? You get a background check. If you're a risk to others, no gun. Not? Here's your firearm, take your meds!
Now: Mentally ill, and the government knows? Here's your firearm. Enjoy!

The issue was with the ease in which one was placed on the list.
Basically, if you needed help remembering to pay your bills and balance your checkbook, you were on the list and denied your rights.
There needs to be a better system in place.

(02-04-2017, 03:37 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: My favorite proposal was/is to treat guns as we treat regulating car ownership. Both provide enjoyment and both can cause harm if misused. Registration and insurance speaks to responsible ownership.

I just have an issue with the insurance angle.
We would be abused, just like with other policies.
We'd be insured straight into poverty.

Side note: The NRA (although I don't care for them) provides such insurance for their members.

[*PhilHos*]

I probably shouldn't offer up my opinion because what I know of the mental health system in America comes almost exclusively from movies and TV shows, but assuming they're relatively accurate, I gotta wonder if part of the problem is that we treat these institutions as another form of prison, in terms of punishing people as opposed to actually "reforming" them.