Merkel wants to ban the Burqa..

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-08-2016, 02:51 PM)hollodero Wrote: Honestly, I have a hard time banning stuff because "people get rude". So the rude person wins? Their rudeness is the benchmark for the others?

When I was in London recently for unspecified Bengals related reasons, there were more Burkas as they are here. At the third one, I stopped even bothering, and no one else seemed to do.

Can't forbid the strange just because it's strange.

It's not about the "rude" person winning. It's more about public safety for the woman dressed in the Burqa.

(12-08-2016, 03:28 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Contrary to the beliefs of some, seeing women wearing burqas here (in the US) is not extremely rare or frightening. My guess is it depends on the part of the country in which one lives, or travels. I've seen them in grocery stores in NE Ohio as well as Atlanta and small towns in Florida. Remarkably, those sharing my experience managed to maintain a good sense of decorum at the time. 

The only real issue at play here for me is the wearing of masks in public by anyone. And even with this, I'm not convinced that a woman with a burqa presents such a worrisome danger to the public in general. Much larger battles exist, even for the hopelessly paranoid.

No it's not extremely rare or frightening to me. But I have a simple rule, when in Rome. do as the Romans do.

If my wife and I were in Dubai, why can't my wife wear he String Bikini at the beach?
Why in the Netherlands can I not ride in the back of a taxi with my wife if the Shotgun seat is available?
Why can't I tip the servers in Korea and Japan?
In Russia, why can't I give someone a thumb's up?
In the US, what's European's trip with Ice Cubes? And you've never had Ice Cream and Soda mixed together? Why do you carry cash in your wallet? Use your card.

Do people in the US run around with their faces covered by Burqa's as part of their everyday routine? No, we don't, so do as the locals do. Otherwise you stick out like a sore thumb and are attracting unwanted attention towards yourself.

Each country has it's own quirks and perks, learn them, know them and be respectful of them.

Anyways, I believe that Religion should never over ride the laws of a land.

(12-08-2016, 03:38 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah well, the US are really quite big. Everytime I check I'm shocked. Guess LA is quite different then Bismarck, and Burka density probably isn't a constant.

The masks in public thing... might be valid; then again, would anyone ban mascots. (And they are everywhere, not just in stadiums, but also in front of mattress shops and whatnot). 
Have to admit though. I always end up on the "no ban" side of the argument, but I still despise Burkas, and I'd rather not have those. Cultural pluralism only goes soo far for me. Don't know if that makes me a hypocrite or a bad person, my guess is yes.

The masks in public is already against the law in many states (and DC) because of the KKK, the only exception is Halloween night. The principle is the same, even if the intent is not.

If we are going to go after the Guy Fawkes people who wear masks, then we need to keep it even across the board. Singling one group out for anti-mask laws and ignoring another is discrimination. And we don't believe in that here in the US.

[hollodero]

(12-08-2016, 05:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: It's not about the "rude" person winning. It's more about public safety for the woman dressed in the Burqa.

I get that it's not about that. But isn't it effectively the same thing? I feel like it's a tricky message: Be rude to those who don't behave as you please, and they might get "protected" by being banned to behave like that.
Seems to encourage bullying. Even it's not "about that".

(12-08-2016, 05:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: No it's not extremely rare or frightening to me. But I have a simple rule, when in Rome. do as the Romans do.

If my wife and I were in Dubai, why can't my wife wear he String Bikini at the beach?
Why in the Netherlands can I not ride in the back of a taxi with my wife if the Shotgun seat is available?
Why can't I tip the servers in Korea and Japan?
In Russia, why can't I give someone a thumb's up?

Well, some of those are laws. Others are customs, and you're not forced to live by them - people might just be offended if you don't. You're not banned from offending people, though.
And the laws of islamic countries are no good comparison. We all are way better than those.

(12-08-2016, 05:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: In the US, what's European's trip with Ice Cubes? And you've never had Ice Cream and Soda mixed together? Why do you carry cash in your wallet? Use your card.

Well. Ice Cubes are great, Ice Cream and soda is just an abomination and again if you ever were to London you'd knew they hardly remember what real money looks like.

(12-08-2016, 05:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Do people in the US run around with their faces covered by Burqa's as part of their everyday routine? No, we don't, so do as the locals do. Otherwise you stick out like a sore thumb and are attracting unwanted attention towards yourself.

Yeah, so you attract attention. So what.
Your country is founded by immigrants from all parts of the world. They were baptists and drinkers and whatnot, different heritages, different customs... I do somehow agree with your rule in respect that what you describe would be the decent thing to do most of the times - but I don't think "do as the Romans do" should be a law or be foundation of a law.

(12-08-2016, 05:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Anyways, I believe that Religion should never over ride the laws of a land.

100% agreed.

(12-08-2016, 05:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: If we are going to go after the Guy Fawkes people who wear masks, then we need to keep it even across the board. Singling one group out for anti-mask laws and ignoring another is discrimination.

Which kind of is my point.
Go after Santa Clauses...? They hide their face behind beards. Ban all kinds of mascots, because who knows what kind of creep wears that Tampa Bay Bucs pirate head (and look what he's wearing, he has to be a creep)...? Many people don't exactly show their faces in public.

(12-08-2016, 05:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: And we don't believe in that here in the US.

That sounded a bit condescending... (but that's ok, people staart being too nice to me anyways... :) )

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-08-2016, 02:00 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So in reality, you don't know any more than anyone else.

Thus the reason I asked a question.  You made a hyperbolic statement.  I questioned your hyperbole which turned out to be one French dude in one YouTube video.  To me, one rude French dude in one YouTube video isn't a big deal.  

Quote:There is a lot of reports from burqa wearing women about the treatment they are receiving from people. The video was just a quick example from the top of my head that I remembered.

Really?  How many reports equal "many"?  Show me these many reports from burqa wearing women.  Now you're trying to sell me on the idea the burqa ban is to protect the Muslim women from the rudeness of the Europeans.  LOL

Quote:People are going to stare (which is a form of being rude) because in the Western Culture Countries we do not see this everyday.

Don't forget the freaking out.

Quote:Ban on religious items displayed in public? Be more specific. Statues maybe offending, but not hurting anyone or are you referring to something else?

As Dill stated, burqas don't kill people.  People kill people.  Have you ever been hurt by a burqa?  Know anyone who was hurt by a burqa?  Know anyone who knows anyone who was hurt by a burqa?

Quote:That woman walking into a Walmart would be a political nightmare. People would be panicking and she might just get shot by someone thinking he's preventing an attack, including an LEO.

So you believe the burqa is more threatening than the rifle.  Thanks for illustrating my point.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-08-2016, 02:39 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I'm aware that his point, but I also do not agree with open carrying of AR-15's. There is no point.

Are you claiming there is no point to open carry?  If so, the people who open carry believe there is a point.

Quote:Our society is more open to it if the guy is dressed as a redneck.

No shit.  Intuitively, I believe homocide statistics will reveal rednecks kill more people in America than burqa-wearing badmamajama.

Quote:However, if that same redneck walked into a Planned Parenthood clinic brandishing his AR-15, it would cause a political nightmare there as well.

Brandishing a weapon is different than open carry.

Quote:In both cases, the fault would lie more at the Media's feet. They are the ones that build up these stereo types.

So the reason you are in favor of a burqa ban is the media's fault?  Just when I thought you couldn't surprise me, you surprise me.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-08-2016, 03:28 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Contrary to the beliefs of some, seeing women wearing burqas here (in the US) is not extremely rare or frightening. My guess is it depends on the part of the country in which one lives, or travels. I've seen them in grocery stores in NE Ohio as well as Atlanta and small towns in Florida. Remarkably, those sharing my experience managed to maintain a good sense of decorum at the time. 

The only real issue at play here for me is the wearing of masks in public by anyone. And even with this, I'm not convinced that a woman with a burqa presents such a worrisome danger to the public in general. Much larger battles exist, even for the hopelessly paranoid.

So you're saying no one  "freaked out"?

No one?  No.  One.  Not a single oscillating Richard?

Are you sure?  Did you check the French pavillion at Epcot?  Because I've read somewhere the French can be rude.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-08-2016, 05:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: It's not about the "rude" person winning. It's more about public safety for the woman dressed in the Burqa.

The Germans need to ban the burqa for the Muslim woman's safety from the Germans?  

Quote:No it's not extremely rare or frightening to me. But I have a simple rule, when in Rome. do as the Romans do.

If "it's not extremely rare" why do "people freak out"?  

Quote:If my wife and I were in Dubai, why can't my wife wear he String Bikini at the beach?

I don't know because as you can see in the picture women can wear string bikinis at the beach in Dubai.

Quote:Why in the Netherlands can I not ride in the back of a taxi with my wife if the Shotgun seat is available?
Why can't I tip the servers in Korea and Japan?
In Russia, why can't I give someone a thumb's up?
In the US, what's European's trip with Ice Cubes? And you've never had Ice Cream and Soda mixed together? Why do you carry cash in your wallet? Use your card.

Are there legal bans on any of those activities?

Quote:Do people in the US run around with their faces covered by Burqa's as part of their everyday routine? No, we don't, so do as the locals do. Otherwise you stick out like a sore thumb and are attracting unwanted attention towards yourself.

Holy shit, pun intended, your entire argument boils down to peer pressure.

Quote:Each country has it's own quirks and perks, learn them, know them and be respectful of them.

Do you wear shoes inside your house?  I'm going to guess no because your wife is Filipino.  Well, don't you know we wear our shoes inside the house?

Quote:Anyways, I believe that Religion should never over ride the laws of a land.


The masks in public is already against the law in many states (and DC) because of the KKK, the only exception is Halloween night. The principle is the same, even if the intent is not.

If we are going to go after the Guy Fawkes people who wear masks, then we need to keep it even across the board. Singling one group out for anti-mask laws and ignoring another is discrimination. And we don't believe in that here in the US.

Wouldn't a "burqa ban" single out one group?  Yes.  Yes, it would.  If there is an anti-mask law, just enforce the law.

[Rotobeast]

(12-09-2016, 01:50 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Have you ever been hurt by a burqa?  Know anyone who was hurt by a burqa?  Know anyone who knows anyone who was hurt by a burqa?

Yes !
Cause it always kills me, wondering what that hidden booty looks like !

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[BmorePat87]

(12-08-2016, 03:28 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Contrary to the beliefs of some, seeing women wearing burqas here (in the US) is not extremely rare or frightening. My guess is it depends on the part of the country in which one lives, or travels. I've seen them in grocery stores in NE Ohio as well as Atlanta and small towns in Florida. Remarkably, those sharing my experience managed to maintain a good sense of decorum at the time. 

The only real issue at play here for me is the wearing of masks in public by anyone. And even with this, I'm not convinced that a woman with a burqa presents such a worrisome danger to the public in general. Much larger battles exist, even for the hopelessly paranoid.

Yea, I see them in Maryland, usually at one of the bigger malls. Last weekend I saw one at a Chinese buffet. I'm no more concerned with them than I am with anyone else wearing baggy clothing or trench jackets with their hands in their pockets. 

[SunsetBengal]

(12-09-2016, 10:35 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yea, I see them in Maryland, usually at one of the bigger malls. Last weekend I saw one at a Chinese buffet. I'm no more concerned with them than I am with anyone else wearing baggy clothing or trench jackets with their hands in their pockets. 

True that, obvious counter culture fashion statements of any kind always seem to grab my immediate attention, make me pay closer attention to my surroundings.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-09-2016, 10:47 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: True that, obvious counter culture fashion statements of any kind always seem to grab my immediate attention, make me pay closer attention to my surroundings.

I've always been a march to the beat of their own drummer kinda guy. One time my personal drummer told me it would be a good idea to wear a sport coat and tie (without a shirt) to go out bar hopping. Unfortunately (for me), my Mom let that detail slip to my wife . . . who never lets me forget like it's her job. 

[Dill]

(Yesterday, 08:26 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Wrote:And we don't believe in that here in the US.

That sounded a bit condescending... (but that's ok, people staart being too nice to me anyways... :) )



Yeah, come on guys. Hollo is not like those OTHER Europeans. If you had a beer with him he would be talking football, not smoking Gauloise and spouting socialism.  Give him a break.

[Dill]

(12-08-2016, 05:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: No it's not extremely rare or frightening to me. But I have a simple rule, when in Rome. do as the Romans do.

If my wife and I were in Dubai, why can't my wife wear he String Bikini at the beach?

As someone who has lived in the Gulf and Central Asia, I am very happy that I did not have to "do as the Afghans do" or some such.  I am not going to wear thobes and pajamas.  Just not.

Also, after years living among men and women who cover themselves--all apparently going about earning their daily bread and not hiding bombs--I can't get worked up when I see a thobe or an abbaya or a burka in the US. And I don't feel like making them wear jeans and tank tops because Romans do.  I have occasionally flown into Frankfurt as the only passenger on the jet not wearing a robe. I get on a plane to the US and people are nervous if there is one Sikh with a turban and beard.

There is a sector of the media fueling fear of others who dress funny, but it's not the mainstream media.

Last time I was in Dubai, it was ok to wear bikinis at the beach. You just can't have sex in public there.

[*wildcats forever*]

(12-09-2016, 03:25 PM)Dill Wrote: As someone who has lived in the Gulf and Central Asia, I am very happy that I did not have to "do as the Afghans do" or some such.  I am not going to wear thobes and pajamas.  Just not.

Also, after years living among men and women who cover themselves--all apparently going about earning their daily bread and not hiding bombs--I can't get worked up when I see a thobe or an abbaya or a burka in the US. And I don't feel like making them wear jeans and tank tops because Romans do.  I have occasionally flown into Frankfurt as the only passenger on the jet not wearing a robe. I get on a plane to the US and people are nervous if there is one Sikh with a turban and beard.

There is a sector of the media fueling fear of others who dress funny, but it's not the mainstream media.

Last time I was in Dubai, it was ok to wear bikinis at the beach. You just can't have sex in public there.

I may have just had an impure thought or two ..... 

Meanwhile, back on topic.......if I were a German citizen, I doubt that I would be on the side of banning burkas. 

[SunsetBengal]

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