On the cost of Education

[Nebuchadnezzar]

My oldest son went to Hanover in Indiana and even though we live in Indiana, his costs came to over $35,000.00 per year, lol. I do not know how much out of state students pay to go there but if it's anything like other schools, it's got to be double what we paid.

Hanover is a really good school that sits on a huge campus and has about 1100 students. It's really a nice campus with all kinds of things for students to do.

EDIT: I do believe since Hanover College is a private school, all costs are the same for everyone no matter where they come from.

Notable Alumni:
The next Vice President of the United States
Woody Harrelson
That lady who founded ACORN
And some others who went on into politics and judges and writers but I guess every school has notables but thought it was cool that Woody Harrelson went there.

[GMDino]

This has been very interesting conversation to follow.

Our daughter's bf (four years of ROTC in high school...they graduated in May) is in the national guard and goes to basic training Monday at Ft. Sill.  He's been accepted to RMU for engineering but is still weighing his options for schooling.  (And he has ten weeks in 95-102 degree weather to think about it!)  

They have family friends in the military and good friend in the reserves helped him with it.

I'll be keeping an eye on these.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-27-2016, 03:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Do you mean a liberal arts degree, or a degree based on a liberal arts education? Either way, I don't think you really know what you're saying. STEM degrees include liberal arts. Math, social/physical sciences, those are liberal arts. Essentially, if it's not professional/technical, it's a liberal art. So while it includes literature and history, it includes statistics and economics as well. Liberal arts universities require students even getting professional degrees, like a BBA, to take some classes in these subjects for a more well rounded education, as the theory goes.

Liberal Arts Degree.

http://www.businessinsider.com/liberal-arts-majors-are-screwed-2014-5

According to the survey, the top three attributes that companies are currently looking for are: a positive attitude (84%), communication skills (83%) and an ability to work as a team (74%). However despite this need, liberal arts majors (who are historically more focused on communications) were shown to be the least likely to land a job, with only 2% of companies actively recruiting those graduates – versus 27% for engineering and computer information systems and 18% for business. Proof of this shift was evident when 49% of all generations responded that they believe there are “no jobs” out there for those with a liberal arts degree.

Liberal Arts degree has it's place in the Humanities section, but it is not a mainstream degree.

[BmorePat87]

(07-28-2016, 06:04 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Liberal Arts degree has it's place in the Humanities section, but it is not a mainstream degree.

What's a mainstream degree?

[Belsnickel]

(07-28-2016, 06:04 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Liberal Arts Degree.

http://www.businessinsider.com/liberal-arts-majors-are-screwed-2014-5

According to the survey, the top three attributes that companies are currently looking for are: a positive attitude (84%), communication skills (83%) and an ability to work as a team (74%). However despite this need, liberal arts majors (who are historically more focused on communications) were shown to be the least likely to land a job, with only 2% of companies actively recruiting those graduates – versus 27% for engineering and computer information systems and 18% for business. Proof of this shift was evident when 49% of all generations responded that they believe there are “no jobs” out there for those with a liberal arts degree.

Liberal Arts degree has it's place in the Humanities section, but it is not a mainstream degree.

See, this is where people get confused with things. Statistics, economics, law, political science, physics, chemistry, these are all liberal arts subjects. Would you say degrees in these fields are unnecessary? There are even some in that list that are humanities subjects, like law and political science.

There are jobs out there in those fields, but for many, if not most, 4 years does not a terminal degree make. That is what I think is being missed in a lot of those instances. They don't plan out what they are going to do with the degree, don't realize what job they are actually training for.

[Belsnickel]

(07-28-2016, 06:17 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: What's a mainstream degree?

A liberal arts degree.

[JustWinBaby]

(07-28-2016, 07:52 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: See, this is where people get confused with things. Statistics, economics, law, political science, physics, chemistry, these are all liberal arts subjects. Would you say degrees in these fields are unnecessary? There are even some in that list that are humanities subjects, like law and political science.

Some elite jobs in banking and consulting used to STRONGLY prefer liberal arts grads (something about wanting a clean slate to teach their way of doing business).

The rest of corporate America, I think, has gotten so lax on training and development that they generally have little interest in hiring a physics major to do accounting.

But most of the degrees you listed are rigorous - someone that does well you at least know you're getting a smart person, or who was at least dedicated/diligent enough to do the work well.  It's the other degrees with limited private sector value that people are paying $100-$200k for that are a problem.  

That said, some of those other degrees don't pay much in their fields without going on to graduate degrees.

I can give a long list of reasons why going to a good state school should be everyone's easy first choice (if money matters).  Save your money for a top graduate program.

[Belsnickel]

(07-28-2016, 08:01 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Some elite jobs in banking and consulting used to STRONGLY prefer liberal arts grads (something about wanting a clean slate to teach their way of doing business).

The rest of corporate America, I think, has gotten so lax on training and development that they generally have little interest in hiring a physics major to do accounting.

But most of the degrees you listed are rigorous - someone that does well you at least know you're getting a smart person, or who was at least dedicated/diligent enough to do the work well.  It's the other degrees with limited private sector value that people are paying $100-$200k for that are a problem.  

That said, some of those other degrees don't pay much in their fields without going on to graduate degrees.

I can give a long list of reasons why going to a good state school should be everyone's easy first choice (if money matters).  Save your money for a top graduate program.

Yeah, there is a reason I added a bit there at the end. Graduate degrees are almost always necessary for these fields. Often times it is because these subjects are more specialized and require further training. The same often holds true, even, for the degrees most people scoff at like the fine arts and what not. A four year degree in that field often is nothing but a stepping stone.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-27-2016, 12:34 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I have no idea what DoDMERB is?  Could he still qualify for military service as a diabetic?  Any Info is greatly appreciated, thanks.  I will also look into the SMART Scholarship.

Chapters 2 and 3 in AR 40-501 will give you the standards for diabetes. Waivers are available, but unlikely. Each service approves their own waivers. The likelihood of getting a waiver largely depends upon how bad their need is in that career field at that time. They're more likely to grant a waiver if their need is high, less likely if their need is low. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-27-2016, 03:24 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Started off as a Computer Engineering (2 1/2 years), but then after being over half way thru switched to Computer Science, because the market was/is much better and broader. Since then, I've specialized in Networking, DBA, SQL and Programming. 
It didn't take me long to finish it either (1 1/2 years), since I had most of my core classes done for CE (Physics/Calculus/English), those classes wiped out my need to take any more math and English, so all I had to focus on was the specialized classes, even squeezed extra classes in so that I could have an even broader range to work in, such as Accounting and Business Management.

Now what kind of job is that person going to be able to do with that Liberal Arts Degree? and how strong is the job field/demand for people with that degree?

Science. Technology. Engineering. Math. 

Did you know science and math are liberal arts?  So half of STEM is liberal arts. If someone is in an engineering program and is required to fill distribution requirements in the humanities and social sciences they are receiving a liberal arts education. 

Ask a guy like David Patreus about career opportunities for people with a liberal arts degree. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(07-28-2016, 08:01 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Some elite jobs in banking and consulting used to STRONGLY prefer liberal arts grads (something about wanting a clean slate to teach their way of doing business).

The rest of corporate America, I think, has gotten so lax on training and development that they generally have little interest in hiring a physics major to do accounting.

But most of the degrees you listed are rigorous - someone that does well you at least know you're getting a smart person, or who was at least dedicated/diligent enough to do the work well.  It's the other degrees with limited private sector value that people are paying $100-$200k for that are a problem.  

That said, some of those other degrees don't pay much in their fields without going on to graduate degrees.

I can give a long list of reasons why going to a good state school should be everyone's easy first choice (if money matters).  Save your money for a top graduate program.

Less than 4% of households earn more than $200k. Less than 9% of households make more than $150k. Approximately 20% of households earn more than $100k. Households, not individuals. So what you're talking about is a very small problem. 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

If I'm not mistaken, it's better for those going into any field to start their education at a Liberal Arts School to get those "Well Rounded" courses out of the way then move on to whatever school to get their degree in whatever field they are going to.

I may be saying it wrong but I hope you understand and if anyone could clarify, that would be great, lol.