Masks?

[Vas Deferens]

(08-24-2021, 02:33 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think it sure didn't "forever ruin" this country. Just like every other terrible thing that's happened to past generations.

I'm not sure we'll 'get over' 9/11, the failed wars for nefarious ends that resulted or the great recession and the transfer of wealth ever since in my lifetime. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-24-2021, 03:30 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: I'm not sure we'll 'get over' 9/11, the failed wars for nefarious ends that resulted or the great recession and the transfer of wealth ever since in my lifetime. 

Don't know how much longer you expect to live, but we got over Vietnam and that generation is still living. We got over WW1 while that generation was still living. Korean War, Jonestown, Theatre Fires, Earthquakes, Nixon, Spanish Flu, Tornadoes, FDR assassinated, Wild Fires, probably tons of other shit I am forgetting... every generation has some shitty things happen during their time. The country doesn't end because of them.

The country literally fought a civil war and kept on existing. A pandemic and some shaman assholes in a buffalo headdress isn't going to be the thing that breaks it. Lol

[Tiger Teeth]

I'm not turning this into an argument over other world events. Re-watch the original video again, the kids are.

[Tiger Teeth]

(08-24-2021, 03:40 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Don't know how much longer you expect to live, but we got over Vietnam and that generation is still living. We got over WW1 while that generation was still living. Korean War, Jonestown, Theatre Fires, Earthquakes, Nixon, Spanish Flu, Tornadoes, FDR assassinated, Wild Fires, probably tons of other shit I am forgetting... every generation has some shitty things happen during their time. The country doesn't end because of them.

The country literally fought a civil war and kept on existing. A pandemic and some shaman assholes in a buffalo headdress isn't going to be the thing that breaks it. Lol

And through all of those, minus the Civil War, we were unified as a country much more than we are now.  My point here is that yes, we endured some shit in our history, but we are turning on one another like I've never seen in 57 years.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-24-2021, 03:45 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: And through all of those, minus the Civil War, we were unified as a country much more than we are now.  My point here is that yes, we endured some shit in our history, but we are turning on one another like I've never seen in 57 years.

Worse than the Vietnam era?  We don't have celebrities flying to Afghanistan, posing with American POW's or being photographed sitting in an AA gun.  But it's certainly the worse it's been in my forty-seven years.

I get Leonard's point, which is that in the grand scheme of things this pandemic is not anywhere near on the scale of WW2, or the 1920's pandemic for that matter.  But I also agree with you that the way Leonard is phrasing it does appear to minimize the psychological damage many kids will have from the lockdowns.  I don't think that was his intent at all though.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-24-2021, 03:45 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: And through all of those, minus the Civil War, we were unified as a country much more than we are now.  My point here is that yes, we endured some shit in our history, but we are turning on one another like I've never seen in 57 years.

Were we? Or were we just a country that didn't have social media to amplify the extreme minority opinions so they can get picked up by 24 hour news cycles hunting the outrage clicks? And no pocket computers that can give you a 24/7 immersion in it all no matter where you are.

Things aren't worse. People are just being oversaturated with terrible news and minority opinions. It's been a thing much longer than Twitter, that's just kicked it into overdrive. Until the last year or two, violent crime rates were half of what they were in the 90s. There was a poll about perception of violent crime, and despite it having gone down pretty much every year for 25 years, over 60% of people believed it had gone up.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/179546/americans-crime-last-year.aspx

[*Nately120*]

There are a lot of people around me who haven't gotten over the civil war.  Funny because I live in PA and they're pissed the south lost and didn't like, kill their ancestors so they could fade out of existence like old Biff in Back to the Future 2.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-24-2021, 03:56 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Worse than the Vietnam era?  We don't have celebrities flying to Afghanistan, posing with American POW's or being photographed sitting in an AA gun.  But it's certainly the worse it's been in my forty-seven years.

I get Leonard's point, which is that in the grand scheme of things this pandemic is not anywhere near on the scale of WW2, or the 1920's pandemic for that matter.  But I also agree with you that the way Leonard is phrasing it does appear to minimize the psychological damage many kids will have from the lockdowns.  I don't think that was his intent at all though.

Only minimizing it from the original position of "forever scarred" and the country being "forever ruined". Is it great? No. It also isn't going to end their existence. I have 8 nieces and nephews and they're doing pretty alright. They'll probably grow up to be more prone to use a mask during flu season and consume more hand sanitizer than previous generations, sure. But making this out to be some kind of future crippling situation is a bit over dramatic.

Honestly I think the bigger concern for the generation than psychological damage is how big of an educational gap there will be between kids who had a parent at home who consistently engaged with them on continuing to learn over the parts of 2 school years that they were at home and those who didn't. I imagine there'll be a fair amount of 5-8-year-olds who are well behind on their literacy rate compared to their peers later in life.

[Tiger Teeth]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Mine is the same as stated in my opening post. Make sure you know what you're doing when you start trying to force your beliefs on other people.

There just isn't going to be any agreement on this topic.

[Vas Deferens]

(08-24-2021, 04:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Only minimizing it from the original position of "forever scarred" and the country being "forever ruined". Is it great? No. It also isn't going to end their existence. I have 8 nieces and nephews and they're doing pretty alright. They'll probably grow up to be more prone to use a mask during flu season and consume more hand sanitizer than previous generations, sure. But making this out to be some kind of future crippling situation is a bit over dramatic.

Honestly I think the bigger concern for the generation than psychological damage is how big of an educational gap there will be between kids who had a parent at home who consistently engaged with them on continuing to learn over the parts of 2 school years that they were at home and those who didn't. I imagine there'll be a fair amount of 5-8-year-olds who are well behind on their literacy rate compared to their peers later in life.

As stated, I'll put the 9/11 / recession debate aside. 

I believe what Tiger was referring to, and certainly a major concern of mine, are the principles kids are learning to be 'american'.  I can't make the leap between the raving lunatic father in this video and him somehow instilling leadership, community and acceptable behavior.  The incident above is playing out all over the country as we speak.  The children of these self-centered morons will need strong role models outside of the home to undue the damage to their moral fabric.  I would not want to live next to the grown children of that father if they become an amplified version of their parents.   

I would be really interested to hear your thoughts on the article I linked above though.  

[Tiger Teeth]

(08-24-2021, 05:43 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: As stated, I'll put the 9/11 / recession debate aside. 

I believe what Tiger was referring to, and certainly a major concern of mine, are the principles kids are learning to be 'american'.  I can't make the leap between the raving lunatic father in this video and him somehow instilling leadership, community and acceptable behavior.  The incident above is playing out all over the country as we speak.  The children of these self-centered morons will need strong role models outside of the home to undue the damage to their moral fabric.  I would not want to live next to the grown children of that father if they become an amplified version of their parents.   

I would be really interested to hear your thoughts on the article I linked above though.  

Exactly.

[Au165]

(08-24-2021, 05:43 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: As stated, I'll put the 9/11 / recession debate aside. 

I believe what Tiger was referring to, and certainly a major concern of mine, are the principles kids are learning to be 'american'.  I can't make the leap between the raving lunatic father in this video and him somehow instilling leadership, community and acceptable behavior.  The incident above is playing out all over the country as we speak.  The children of these self-centered morons will need strong role models outside of the home to undue the damage to their moral fabric.  I would not want to live next to the grown children of that father if they become an amplified version of their parents.   

I would be really interested to hear your thoughts on the article I linked above though.  

Did kids in the 50’s and 60’s not grow up watching parents and family members threaten people of color over desegregation of schools and other places? Again, details change but general events find a way of coming back around. Did some of those kids turn into assholes? Sure. Did all of them? No, and I’d venture to guess many over time figured out what most do that their parents are not infallible.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-24-2021, 05:43 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: As stated, I'll put the 9/11 / recession debate aside. 

I believe what Tiger was referring to, and certainly a major concern of mine, are the principles kids are learning to be 'american'.  I can't make the leap between the raving lunatic father in this video and him somehow instilling leadership, community and acceptable behavior.  The incident above is playing out all over the country as we speak.  The children of these self-centered morons will need strong role models outside of the home to undue the damage to their moral fabric.  I would not want to live next to the grown children of that father if they become an amplified version of their parents.   

I would be really interested to hear your thoughts on the article I linked above though.  

Even your own article ends with "roughly 62 percent of all adults are fully vaccinated as of writing". So essentially 2/3rds are already vaccinated and the number is growing. Over 6 million more vaccines were given just last week in the US. Always remind yourself that 1. There's ALWAYS going to be bad people in any group of humans large enough. and that 2. They're in the minority.

It seems like that article went out of it's way to skim the internet for the worst examples of people in the country to try to bolster it's opinion that people being awful is the norm. I don't agree. I live in a fairly red, semi-rural area and I honestly wasn't given shit for wearing a mask a single time. There was the occasional jackass walking around in the grocery store without one, but it was honestly rare. Even now there's still people willingly wearing mask out and about (or maybe they're unvaxxed? Don't know) but I haven't seen any of them be accosted for it yet. The chinese/thai/japanese takeouts around here aren't struggling and seem to be doing pretty good business any time I go there. I was at the VA recently and an elderly gentleman dropped his paperwork. The very first person stopped their conversation with someone and helped him pick up everything without a single hesitation (before I could get there). People here still hold the door for others and thank others when it's done for them. Someone recently let me go ahead of them in line at a grocery store because I only had 2 items and they had a full cart. It honestly doesn't feel significantly worse. I don't know if my positive experiences outweigh their negative experiences, but theirs seems to be built upon scanning the internet and twitter feeds while mine is from interacting with other people.

What I think the disconnect is between my experience and the writer of that article? I don't use Facebook at all, I try to limit lurking on Twitter to only sports news, and I also try to not scan news articles online more than twice a day and anything I find outrageous sounding I go out of my way to find another distinctly different source. Enough news to keep me informed about events going on. I had friends who went full deep into diving into COVID articles in 2020. Reading pretty much every single one, and it had an actual effect on their mental health and happiness. They had to make a conscious decision to limit themselves to a more reasonable amount of news and it helped them.

I am admittedly mostly an optimistic person about humanity in general, but I always remind myself that there are always going to be shitty people in any group of humans large enough. That's just the fact of humans being individuals. The internet just gives them a place to gather and amplify their minority message/opinion. I think everyone would be happier if they cut back their social media and news consumption a bit and actually went an interacted with normal average people (though admittedly harder to do in a pandemic).

[Tiger Teeth]

(08-25-2021, 06:44 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Even your own article ends with "roughly 62 percent of all adults are fully vaccinated as of writing". So essentially 2/3rds are already vaccinated and the number is growing. Over 6 million more vaccines were given just last week in the US. Always remind yourself that 1. There's ALWAYS going to be bad people in any group of humans large enough. and that 2. They're in the minority.

It seems like that article went out of it's way to skim the internet for the worst examples of people in the country to try to bolster it's opinion that people being awful is the norm. I don't agree. I live in a fairly red, semi-rural area and I honestly wasn't given shit for wearing a mask a single time. There was the occasional jackass walking around in the grocery store without one, but it was honestly rare. Even now there's still people willingly wearing mask out and about (or maybe they're unvaxxed? Don't know) but I haven't seen any of them be accosted for it yet. The chinese/thai/japanese takeouts around here aren't struggling and seem to be doing pretty good business any time I go there. I was at the VA recently and an elderly gentleman dropped his paperwork. The very first person stopped their conversation with someone and helped him pick up everything without a single hesitation (before I could get there). People here still hold the door for others and thank others when it's done for them. Someone recently let me go ahead of them in line at a grocery store because I only had 2 items and they had a full cart. It honestly doesn't feel significantly worse. I don't know if my positive experiences outweigh their negative experiences, but theirs seems to be built upon scanning the internet and twitter feeds while mine is from interacting with other people.

What I think the disconnect is between my experience and the writer of that article? I don't use Facebook at all, I try to limit lurking on Twitter to only sports news, and I also try to not scan news articles online more than twice a day and anything I find outrageous sounding I go out of my way to find another distinctly different source. Enough news to keep me informed about events going on. I had friends who went full deep into diving into COVID articles in 2020. Reading pretty much every single one, and it had an actual effect on their mental health and happiness. They had to make a conscious decision to limit themselves to a more reasonable amount of news and it helped them.

I am admittedly mostly an optimistic person about humanity in general, but I always remind myself that there are always going to be shitty people in any group of humans large enough. That's just the fact of humans being individuals. The internet just gives them a place to gather and amplify their minority message/opinion. I think everyone would be happier if they cut back their social media and news consumption a bit and actually went an interacted with normal average people (though admittedly harder to do in a pandemic).

I will agree with you on the point of social media being a contributor to this debate.  Perhaps I over-dramaticized a bit by saying ruined in my intial post, how about "changed"?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-25-2021, 08:09 AM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: I will agree with you on the point of social media being a contributor to this debate.  Perhaps I over-dramaticized a bit by saying ruined in my intial post, how about "changed"?

Yeah, I will surely meet with you and agree on changed. 

I don't know if we'll really be 100% certain to what degree of change for another decade or two when it comes time for them to start asserting control of the work market/politics/etc, though, or if the change will be for the better or worse for that matter. (Admittedly probably for the worse, but the better isn't out of the question.)

[Vas Deferens]

(08-25-2021, 06:44 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Even your own article ends with "roughly 62 percent of all adults are fully vaccinated as of writing". So essentially 2/3rds are already vaccinated and the number is growing. Over 6 million more vaccines were given just last week in the US. Always remind yourself that 1. There's ALWAYS going to be bad people in any group of humans large enough. and that 2. They're in the minority.

It seems like that article went out of it's way to skim the internet for the worst examples of people in the country to try to bolster it's opinion that people being awful is the norm. I don't agree. I live in a fairly red, semi-rural area and I honestly wasn't given shit for wearing a mask a single time. There was the occasional jackass walking around in the grocery store without one, but it was honestly rare. Even now there's still people willingly wearing mask out and about (or maybe they're unvaxxed? Don't know) but I haven't seen any of them be accosted for it yet. The chinese/thai/japanese takeouts around here aren't struggling and seem to be doing pretty good business any time I go there. I was at the VA recently and an elderly gentleman dropped his paperwork. The very first person stopped their conversation with someone and helped him pick up everything without a single hesitation (before I could get there). People here still hold the door for others and thank others when it's done for them. Someone recently let me go ahead of them in line at a grocery store because I only had 2 items and they had a full cart. It honestly doesn't feel significantly worse. I don't know if my positive experiences outweigh their negative experiences, but theirs seems to be built upon scanning the internet and twitter feeds while mine is from interacting with other people.

What I think the disconnect is between my experience and the writer of that article? I don't use Facebook at all, I try to limit lurking on Twitter to only sports news, and I also try to not scan news articles online more than twice a day and anything I find outrageous sounding I go out of my way to find another distinctly different source. Enough news to keep me informed about events going on. I had friends who went full deep into diving into COVID articles in 2020. Reading pretty much every single one, and it had an actual effect on their mental health and happiness. They had to make a conscious decision to limit themselves to a more reasonable amount of news and it helped them.

I am admittedly mostly an optimistic person about humanity in general, but I always remind myself that there are always going to be shitty people in any group of humans large enough. That's just the fact of humans being individuals. The internet just gives them a place to gather and amplify their minority message/opinion. I think everyone would be happier if they cut back their social media and news consumption a bit and actually went an interacted with normal average people (though admittedly harder to do in a pandemic).

Thank you for reading and I genuinely appreciate your perspective here.  I can 100% appreciate where you're coming from and agree on many levels.  I do not use FB either, but I admittedly do digest a lot of news daily and would not describe myself as optimistic about humanity.  That's probably the biggest disconnect on this topic.

Again, thanks for the response.  

[Tiger Teeth]

(08-25-2021, 08:49 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yeah, I will surely meet with you and agree on changed. 

I don't know if we'll really be 100% certain to what degree of change for another decade or two when it comes time for them to start asserting control of the work market/politics/etc, though, or if the change will be for the better or worse for that matter. (Admittedly probably for the worse, but the better isn't out of the question.)

(08-25-2021, 04:25 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Thank you for reading and I genuinely appreciate your perspective here.  I can 100% appreciate where you're coming from and agree on many levels.  I do not use FB either, but I admittedly do digest a lot of news daily and would not describe myself as optimistic about humanity.  That's probably the biggest disconnect on this topic.

Again, thanks for the response.  

And now I see hope to a degree.

[Au165]

(08-25-2021, 06:47 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: And now I see hope to a degree.

I think in general the internet makes people a little standoffish and confrontational. We see a lot of those interactions online and then we see those who carry that same personality to real life plastered all over the internet via videos like above. In all honesty though, even people who are that way online come back to reality in person normally and go back to showing others a general respect and decorum that makes society tolerable. The disconnect of a person on the other side leads to a lot of this phenomenon but once you reintroduce a person you see humanity return for the most part.

Perception is not reality but it is your reality. Many talk about how social media distorts reality because you curate what you want to see therefor creating incomplete pictures of the world. This same thing happens to the news media we consume because many will digest multiple news sources but they will be in the same thought sphere which in general creates that curated perception of reality. We have issues, but there has never been a time in this country we didn't it's just presented and digested in a different way today than before. 

[Mickeypoo]

(08-24-2021, 04:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Only minimizing it from the original position of "forever scarred" and the country being "forever ruined". Is it great? No. It also isn't going to end their existence. I have 8 nieces and nephews and they're doing pretty alright. They'll probably grow up to be more prone to use a mask during flu season and consume more hand sanitizer than previous generations, sure. But making this out to be some kind of future crippling situation is a bit over dramatic.

Honestly I think the bigger concern for the generation than psychological damage is how big of an educational gap there will be between kids who had a parent at home who consistently engaged with them on continuing to learn over the parts of 2 school years that they were at home and those who didn't. I imagine there'll be a fair amount of 5-8-year-olds who are well behind on their literacy rate compared to their peers later in life.

Wow!  My kids had remote learning for about 2.5 months at the beginning of the year last year then back to normal.  Now, this year, we are back to 5 days a week.  Kids here are still being educated.