NJ tax hike on rich and wealth redistribution?

[Mickeypoo]

Isn't this straight up wealth redistribution? Isn't that Socialist?

https://abc7ny.com/nj-gas-tax-new-jersey-department-of-treasury-gasoline-increase/6428509/

[Belsnickel]

Yes, it is wealth redistribution. No, it is not socialism. It is a social welfare policy that has a long history in our country.

[*PhilHos*]

Quote:The twin proposals could cancel each other out since estimated revenue from the income tax increase is about $400 million, and the tax rebate would tally similarly.

Sure looks like straight up wealth redistribution to me.

[BmorePat87]

Lots of tax and rebate policies are "wealth redistribution", but that alone doesn't make it "socialism". That's just progressive taxes.

[Mickeypoo]

Can someone please explain what would make something like this Socialism vs not?

[*Nately120*]

Once again my decision to not be rich and not live in New Jersey pays off.

[Belsnickel]

(09-17-2020, 01:50 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Can someone please explain what would make something like this Socialism vs not?

Socialism is ownership of industry/means of production by the people/state. There is a long history in this country of labeling social welfare policies or any sort of regulatory efforts on capitalism as socialist when they aren't.

[fredtoast]

For the last 50 years the governments policies have been redistributing the wealth from the lower and middle class to the wealthiest people in the country.


Why was no one upset about that wealth redistribution?

Why is it okay for the rich to get richer instead of helping the lower and middle classes?

[BmorePat87]

(09-17-2020, 01:50 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Can someone please explain what would make something like this Socialism vs not?

If the state owned all of the gas stations and taxed the population to subsidize the cost of the gas stations, that would be an example. 

Giving taxing and giving tax rebates isn't socialism. When corporations get these breaks, some call it the "free market", though it isn't. 

[CJD]

(09-17-2020, 01:50 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Can someone please explain what would make something like this Socialism vs not?

The term Socialism has been so overused by people who don't like any kind of assistance for poor or middle class families at the expense of the rich, that it basically has lost all meaning.


So, let's say we begin calling tax redistribution from the wealthy to lower income people (whether it be via welfare, unemployment, tax rebates, vouchers, food stamps or what have you) is now considered "socialism."

In this scenario, yes. This is socialism.

But also in this scenario, socialism is ***** fantastic and needed if we want to escape the crippling wealth gap in this country that is allowing millions to suffer while there are people who make millions and billions of dollars off of the backs of underpaid workers.


However, if we go by the actual definition of socialism, an economic system in which ownership of private property (not personal property) is held by the workers (allowing them to benefit from their own labor) rather than a bourgeoisie class (What Marx called the wealthy capitalists that typically own the factories, production plants etc), then....no. This is clearly not Socialism.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-17-2020, 02:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: For the last 50 years the governments policies have been redistributing the wealth from the lower and middle class to the wealthiest people in the country.


Why was no one upset about that wealth redistribution?

Why is it okay for the rich to get richer instead of helping the lower and middle classes?

Can you please explain how?

[*Nately120*]

(09-17-2020, 02:17 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Can you please explain how?

Probably has something to do with that trickle down nonsense the plutocrats keep shoving down the throats of the peasant class...but shouldn't we spend more time talking about abortion?

[Mickeypoo]

Thank you all for the responses.

[Mickeypoo]

So can you guys help me understand the problems Socialism would cause in a country and how Socialism can destroy a country? Is Venezuela a Socialist country? That gets thrown out there a lot.

[*Nately120*]

(09-17-2020, 02:49 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: So can you guys help me understand the problems Socialism would cause in a country and how Socialism can destroy a country?  Is Venezuela a Socialist country?  That gets thrown out there a lot.

Relatively speaking, the USA is a socialist country. 

[Benton]

(09-17-2020, 02:17 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Can you please explain how?

Tax breaks, for one.

You buy a microwave, you pay tax on it. You buy some specialty high end items, like, say a racehorse, and there's a tax deduction. Locally, we have a problem with the disparity on boats. It sounds silly, but if you own a small bass boat you pay .45 cents per $100 in tax; if you own a yacht (or other high end cabin cruiser), you pay 1.5 cents per $100. It's not directly redistributing lower incomes to upper incomes, but both boaters use the same services their tax dollar provides, the guy with a little boat is just paying 30 times higher per dollar to do it.

There's also just the way the tax code is written. There are breaks at the top not feasible or available at the bottom, which is why you have guys worth millions sometimes paying little to no tax. There was a stink a few years ago about Romney paying something like a 14% tax rate the same year he made $15 million. The average person pays an effective rate of around 30% (although I'd add, Romney's income tax isn't the same as Romney's effective tax rate).

[*bfine32*]

It's why I've always been a fan of a flat tax

[*Nately120*]

(09-17-2020, 03:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's why I've always been a fan of a flat tax

Taxes are like Ohio and women; they're best when they're flat.  Er, wait. 

[BrownAssClown]

Was it socialism when Trump and the Republicans passed massive tax breaks to corporations? Was that not a redistribution of wealth? Are rich folks still hiding their wealth in off-shore accounts to avoid paying their fair share of taxes? Have the tax loopholes been closed that favor the wealthy and elite in our country?

[BigPapaKain]

(09-17-2020, 03:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It's why I've always been a fan of a flat tax

I have to, but my brother talked me down from it a little a few years ago. 10% of your income is a lot more damaging to the guy making $500 than to the guy making $5,000,000.