NK announces Closure Of Nuclear Test Site, Suspending Missile Tests

[ballsofsteel]

(04-25-2018, 10:07 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: He's showing respect for a leader that's apparently backing down from something that made him a serious threat.

People bash Trump for everything, then he pulls this off, shows the guy respect, and people still bash him.

It's a give-and-take thing.

Democrats and Trump-haters will find reasons to ***** about everything.

He didn't "back down" from anything. He made a statement that he is DONE testing his Nukes.  Maybe he doesn't need to test anymore.
He is lock and loaded.  Porkchop got what he wanted so far, to be recognized as a major player in the world and to get Drumph to kiss his ass.

Repubs and Drumph lovers will find reasons to praise him for anything he says he did even though he never did nothing.  MAGA

[BFritz21]

(04-25-2018, 05:21 PM)ballsofsteel Wrote: He didn't "back down" from anything. He made a statement that he is DONE testing his Nukes.  Maybe he doesn't need to test anymore.
He is lock and loaded.  Porkchop got what he wanted so far, to be recognized as a major player in the world and to get Drumph to kiss his ass.

Repubs and Drumph lovers will find reasons to praise him for anything he says he did even though he never did nothing.  MAGA

Wow.

Really?

If he was successful and didn't need to test anymore, it would be all over the news.

He backed down from testing nukes and they're still working on denuclearization.

[BmorePat87]

I was reading articles about North Korea building sites and about what a mess the State Dept is and it reminded me of this thread.

[Dill]

(12-10-2018, 10:30 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I was reading articles about North Korea building sites and about what a mess the State Dept is and it reminded me of this thread.

Funny to look back and read those old posts--those who fell hook-line-and-sinker for the great showman's summit "achievements," and/or didn't want to hear about Trump's "cluelessness."

This Uri Friedman Atlantic article from June is the most positive thing I have read about the summit. It argues that, as of June, the US and NK were not threatening to destroy one another. And that is an accomplishment.

Here’s What Trump Actually Achieved With North Korea: It wasn’t what he said. But it was much more than nothing.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/06/trump-kim-korea-success/563012/
Also, Friedman argues there is an experiment under way: previously, all NK diplomacy has proceeded from the ground up; Trump is trying a top down approach, based on a personal relationship with Kim.
We should know how well this worked by the coming March. I like Friedman's fresh take, but I still see no reason to assume Trump has the focus and knowledge to follow through, and with a WH and State Dept. in shambles.

As of Nov. 7, the perils of the top-down approach were apparent. Suddenly, the U.S. needs to ease sanctions before concrete steps to denuclearization can occur.
Trump’s North Korea diplomacy quietly stalls
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/11/07/trumps-north-korean-diplomacy-quietly-stalls/?utm_term=.689e11adee44

Quote: Will Ripley @willripleyCNN

The source predicts upcoming talks between the US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and ex-spymaster Kim Yong Chol will not be successful, unless the US shows new willingness to ease sanctions before complete denuclearization.
16
2:03 AM - Nov 6, 2018

The issues with this approach were reinforced last Friday, when North Korean state media suggested that the “arrogant” behavior of the United States could lead Pyongyang to restart its “byungjin” policy — simultaneously focusing on economic development and its nuclear program. It was effectively a warning that North Korea could soon resume the weapons and missile tests that led to so much tension in 2017.
Robert Carlin, a former CIA analyst and State Department specialist on Korea, wrote that the commentary was a new level of warning from North Korea. It “goes to the heart of Pyongyang’s concern that the US has been moving backwards, away from the agenda the two leaders laid out in the Singapore Summit joint statement,” Carlin wrote in a post for the North Korea-focused website 38 North.

The latest warning followed a number of other jibes from North Korean state media, including one that took the unprecedented step of criticizing Trump by name. As NK News noted, it was the “first negative casting of the American president on U.S.-DPRK diplomacy since the Singapore summit took place,” suggesting that even the high-level goodwill between Trump and Kim could be falling short.

For Trump, the breakdown in North Korean diplomacy would be a personal failure. The U.S. leader long suggested that he could solve the North Korea problem if he met with Kim himself — and he had a point. His willingness to meet the North Korean leader face-to-face this year set things in motion in a way previous U.S.-North Korea meetings, which involved officials at a lower levels, did not.

[*michaelsean*]

You know Lucie is still fourth on numbers of posts? And if you think of not just this time, but all the other suspension he had before now, that is a remarkable feat.

[Dill]

(12-10-2018, 11:49 AM)michaelsean Wrote: You know Lucie is still fourth on numbers of posts?  And if you think of not just this time, but all the other suspension he had before now, that is a remarkable feat.

I miss the guy. Wish he were still around--for diversity and insight into Trump support.

[BmorePat87]

(12-10-2018, 11:49 AM)michaelsean Wrote: You know Lucie is still fourth on numbers of posts?  And if you think of not just this time, but all the other suspension he had before now, that is a remarkable feat.

For shits and giggles, and since I am home sick, I took 15 minutes to look at his posts.

He actually slowed down in his last year. Due to bans, he only posted from May 2015-June 2016 and then June 2017-May 2018 (minus little bans in the middle of those). We're talking about 25 months out of 43 months he has been registered. 

During his first year, he made 9,680 posts. In his last year, he only made 3,800 posts.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-10-2018, 11:49 AM)michaelsean Wrote: You know Lucie is still fourth on numbers of posts?  And if you think of not just this time, but all the other suspension he had before now, that is a remarkable feat.

Arguably less remarkable than our leading poster (by a laege margin) not even being a Bengals fan, thus incapable of posting in Jungle Noise, the most popular and active section of this website.

[Belsnickel]

(12-10-2018, 01:45 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Arguably less remarkable than our leading poster (by a laege margin) not even being a Bengals fan, thus incapable of posting in Jungle Noise, the most popular and active section of this website.

Out of the top 20, at least three are not Bengals fans. This is making me rethink my life choices.

[GMDino]

(12-10-2018, 01:45 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Arguably less remarkable than our leading poster (by a laege margin) not even being a Bengals fan, thus incapable of posting in Jungle Noise, the most popular and active section of this website.

Thankfully we have PnR...especially the Joke and meme thread.  

All seriousness aside I used to be more active in smack talk with older boards too.  

But thanks for noticing!   :andy:

[*michaelsean*]

(12-10-2018, 12:58 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: For shits and giggles, and since I am home sick, I took 15 minutes to look at his posts.

He actually slowed down in his last year. Due to bans, he only posted from May 2015-June 2016 and then June 2017-May 2018 (minus little bans in the middle of those). We're talking about 25 months out of 43 months he has been registered. 

During his first year, he made 9,680 posts. In his last year, he only made 3,800 posts.

Think you can ride that to Christmas break?

I'm guessing his posts per day count goes from registration day to current regardless of suspensions, bannings etc  (Why isn't bannings a word?  Someone needs to fix that.  .  It's at 10.3 now.

[BmorePat87]

(12-10-2018, 02:18 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Think you can ride that to Christmas break?

These 4 weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas aren't as rough as January to April (Spring Break). Every year my department runs some bracket to pass the time (top 32 of candy, sodas, chips, whatever) with a head to head taste off each day. 

[Belsnickel]

(12-10-2018, 05:52 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: These 4 weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas aren't as rough as January to April (Spring Break). Every year my department runs some bracket to pass the time (top 32 of candy, sodas, chips, whatever) with a head to head taste off each day. 

Our grind is from 4th of July to Thanksgiving. No holidays in between there for us.

[*bfine32*]

(12-10-2018, 11:45 AM)Dill Wrote: Funny to look back and read those old posts--those who fell hook-line-and-sinker for the great showman's summit "achievements," and/or didn't want to hear about Trump's "cluelessness."

Silly underlings; they are so beneath us. 

[Dill]

(12-10-2018, 06:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Silly underlings; they are so beneath us. 

Yeah. Just as Trump knew more than the generals, they knew more about NK than the experts, or even laypersons who take the trouble to read up on foreign policy issues. And they were better judges of manly character and competent leadership than liberal snowflakes. So they fell for rhetoric, pomp and circumstance--US NK Summit a historical first!  LOL

Casting them as victims of "elitism" doesn't just change the subject; it also short circuits learning from errors in judgment and empowers whose who misdirect anger for profit.

[*bfine32*]

(12-10-2018, 07:07 PM)Dill Wrote: Yeah. Just as Trump knew more than the generals, they knew more about NK than the experts, or even laypersons who take the trouble to read up on foreign policy issues. And they were better judges of manly character and competent leadership than liberal snowflakes. So they fell for rhetoric, pomp and circumstance--US NK Summit a historical first!  LOL

Casting them as victims of "elitism" doesn't just change the subject; it also short circuits learning from errors in judgment and empowers whose who misdirect anger for profit.

I don't cast them as victims; as I'm sure they are happy. I simply don't look down my nose as them from behind my keyboard and consider myself their intellectual superior.

I do recall many folks stating the meeting would never happen, because "that's not the way it's done".

I was one in favor of open dialog and I hope there's more of it. Not for our sake, but for the sake of the NK population. 

[*michaelsean*]

(12-10-2018, 06:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Our grind is from 4th of July to Thanksgiving. No holidays in between there for us.

No Labor Day?

[GMDino]

(12-10-2018, 08:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't cast them as victims; as I'm sure they are happy. I simply don't look down my nose as them from behind my keyboard and consider myself their intellectual superior.

Is it possible to say they were fooled, or bought in to what the POTUS said despite all past histories with NK and that almost everyone with experience and knowledge said it wouldn't happen?

I mean if people want to think that that means they are intellectually inferior that's on them. Maybe they could just admit they bought the snake oil.

(12-10-2018, 08:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I do recall many folks stating the meeting would never happen, because "that's not the way it's done".

"man folks" said it should not...not would not...happen. But again those were people who studied the situation over decades and had a good understanding of the ins and out of the diplomatic procedures. But "many folk" insisted that because it was Trump everything would be great because...Trump.

(12-10-2018, 08:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I was one in favor of open dialog and I hope there's more of it. Not for our sake, but for the sake of the NK population. 

Wonderful. Instead NK's leader got a lot of free publicity, the POTUS to promise things and he didn't have to do anything at all.

Yay.

[Dill]

(12-10-2018, 08:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't cast them as victims; as I'm sure they are happy. I simply don't look down my nose as them from behind my keyboard and consider myself their intellectual superior.

I do recall many folks stating the meeting would never happen, because "that's not the way it's done".

I was one in favor of open dialog and I hope there's more of it. Not for our sake, but for the sake of the NK population.

So who does simply look down their nose at people who consider themselves intellectually superior to Trump critics? And why do they merit your protection?

What would "never happen"? Are you referring to the summit engineered by the South Korean President?
I remember people saying "that's not the way it's done" when Trump announced a summit with no prep, no U.S. ambassador to NK, and no conditions for a meeting.  Apparently they were right, since all the advantage has accrued to NK since then. 

Of course you are in favor of open dialogue. You're a good person, not a troll. And as I suggest above, via the Atlantic article, the positive take away from the summit was that war talk stopped for months.  Looks like that is breaking down now. By next summer we might be back to threats, and a weak or non-existent sanctions program.

The ability of the US to impose sanctions on NK will depend in great part on how it manages the fallout from the broken Iran Deal. (Canada's recent detention of the Huawei excutive indicates how complicated that will be.  Unforced errors in foreign policy have great consequences.)

[Belsnickel]

(12-10-2018, 09:58 PM)michaelsean Wrote: No Labor Day?

Nope. Because Labor Day falls pretty early in the fall semester, sometime just after syllabus week, Admissions is concerned that a three-day weekend will result in first-year students going home and not coming back because they haven't yet adjusted. So while there have been efforts from the faculty senate to make it happen on the calendar, Admissions has won out so far.