NYPD Officers Unhapppy

[*michaelsean*]

(01-24-2018, 04:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Of course it doesn't bother you.  You are one of the people that receives these benefits.  Your opinion might be a lot different if you had to pay a $200 ticket while the buddy of a cop got off free.


As for the OP I am stunned that they all acknowledge that these cards exist like it is no big deal.

Do you just make stuff up?  What are you basing this on?  Maybe you should read all of my posts.  One of them specifically addresses your point.  

[Au165]

Side note, this goes on all over the place but most the systems aren't as brazen as this one. You ever see those stickers on the back windshields of cars, or next to license plate, that appear to have a police badge on them? A lot of times those are given out for donating to various police related groups. There is kind of an understanding in a lot of places if you see one of those to "take it easy" on them because they support police.

Funny story, I had a buddy who got one of these cards from his cousin in Cleveland who was a donor to a police organization up there. He was driving through NC and got pulled over and tried showing the cop this card. The cop looked at him and laughed and said "buddy this isn't (insert Cleveland suburb), that doesn't mean anything to me".

[*michaelsean*]

(01-24-2018, 04:56 PM)Au165 Wrote: Side note, this goes on all over the place but most the systems aren't as brazen as this one. You ever see those stickers on the back windshields of cars, or next to license plate, that appear to have a police badge on them? A lot of times those are given out for donating to various police related groups. There is kind of an understanding in a lot of places if you see one of those to "take it easy" on them because they support police.

Funny story, I had a buddy who got one of these cards from his cousin in Cleveland who was a donor to a police organization up there. He was driving through NC and got pulled over and tried showing the cop this card. The cop looked at him and laughed and said "buddy this isn't Cleveland, that doesn't mean anything to me".

That's exactly what I would be afraid of.  I'd never use one.  Like I said earlier something about these now sounds familiar, like my wife got a couple from someone in Cleveland, but I can't swear that's what they were.

[fredtoast]

(01-24-2018, 04:53 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Do you just make stuff up?  What are you basing this on?

This post where you specifically describe how you get out of trouble with the police.

(01-24-2018, 03:30 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah but they don't need a card.

No big deal for me.  I'll just go back to the tried and true "Do you know who I am?" 

Like I said.  your opinion might be different if you had to pay tickets instead of getting off for free.

[*michaelsean*]

(01-24-2018, 04:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This post where you specifically describe how you get out of trouble with the police.



Like I said.  your opinion might be different if you had to pay tickets instead of getting off for free.

 God that's embarrassing for you Fred. For the record I have never gotten out of one ticket in my life, as was clearly stated in post #12. And I still don't care.

[fredtoast]

(01-24-2018, 05:00 PM)michaelsean Wrote:  God that's embarrassing for you Fred.

You just explained exactly what you do to get out of trouble with police even when you don't have a card to flash. 

Why should that embarrass me?

[*michaelsean*]

(01-24-2018, 05:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You just explained exactly what you do to get out of trouble with police even when you don't have a card to flash. 

Why should that embarrass me?

The tried and true, "Do you know who I am?"  

[fredtoast]

(01-24-2018, 05:06 PM)michaelsean Wrote: The tried and true, "Do you know who I am?"  

Now I am really confused.

Are you claiming that that line is never used to get out of trouble with the police?

[Belsnickel]

(01-24-2018, 05:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Now I am really confused.

Are you claiming that that line is never used to get out of trouble with the police?

He was just joking around. In the same post you initially quoted he said:

(01-24-2018, 04:24 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I don't know how to quote two people at once so also to CK, I get what you are saying, but it just doesn't bother me. If it becomes something else like felonies, then I'm bothered. and this is coming from someone who has absolutely never been let off or given a warning ever. And no I am always very polite.

[*michaelsean*]

(01-24-2018, 05:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Now I am really confused.

Are you claiming that that line is never used to get out of trouble with the police?

They try to use it.  And cops hate it.   That's what makes it funny.  It's funnier if a nobody like me claims to say it.  Even if you don't think it's funny, it's very obviously a joke. No big deal if you missed it.

[StLucieBengal]

I never knew they existed. I always thought the best move was to donate to the officer Foundation or whatever.

[*michaelsean*]

(01-24-2018, 05:33 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I never knew they existed.   I always thought the best move was to donate to the officer Foundation or whatever.

Sounds like that's how AU's buddy got his.

[StLucieBengal]

(01-24-2018, 05:34 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Sounds like that's how AU's buddy got his.

The only time I have had a get out of trouble with the police card was In college and it was given to us by the athletic department.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-24-2018, 03:30 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah but they don't need a card.

No big deal for me.  I'll just go back to the tried and true "Do you know who I am?"  

Waiting for SSF to see how many he gets with the LAPD.  (Or whatever Dept he works for)

No.  Neither the LAPD or any other department in the Southern California area has such a thing that I am aware of.  As is mentioned later, some people have stickers on their car from some LEO support agency that they hope will get them out of a ticket.  My experience is that this kind of thing is usually handled verbally here, as in, "My husband is an officer in X department".  DUI's are not an area you're going to get leeway on btw, those days are way in our rearview mirror.

(01-24-2018, 04:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's unethical. I know it seems small, and I get that, but maintaining our professional ethics is important. When our ethics systems break down, well, we can see some of those effects now.

Unethical is a strong way to put it.  If you decline to issue a citation to someone, as has happened to my father, because they are career military, or because they have a reasonable excuse for their error and you perceive them as sincere, this is no different than using said discretion because the person is related to a LEO.  I can get into Coachella for year every year because of who I know.  There are people around the world who would sell a kidney to attend.  I think where people get upset with LEO's engaging in this behavior it's because they perceive the law to be an area in which the "homeboy hookup" shouldn't exist.  I can tell you that not issuing tickets to other LEO's is done both as a professional courtesy and because tickets can negatively impact you at the job, something that doesn't happen in other professions.  All that being said, there are still LEO's who will ticket family members of LEO's or even LEO's themselves.  There is one firm and fast rule, never ticket a lieutenant (or equivalent) or above.

(01-24-2018, 04:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Of course it doesn't bother you.  You are one of the people that receives these benefits.  Your opinion might be a lot different if you had to pay a $200 ticket while the buddy of a cop got off free.


As for the OP I am stunned that they all acknowledge that these cards exist like it is no big deal.

The DA and DPD employees get similar benefits.  Well, the DA certainly does.  As I said above, I'm sure the fact that I can get concert tickets for free, or good seats cheaply, bothers many people who can't.  Yes, I've already acknowledged why interactions with law enforcement are not directly comparable to that.

[fredtoast]

These "get out of jail free cards" are just more ammo for people who claim that the entire system is corrupt.

It amazes me that police can be this open about abusing the system and treating people unfairly and then act shocked and insulted when people accuse them of abusing the system and treating people unfairly.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-24-2018, 07:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: These "get out of jail free cards" are just more ammo for people who claim that the entire system is corrupt.

It amazes me that police can be this open about abusing the system and  treating people unfairly and then act shocked and insulted when people accuse them of abusing the system and treating people unfairly.

Let's say a relative of yours is arrested in the same jurisdiction that you work in.  You don't think you'd use your relationships in the DA's office to secure a more favorable outcome than a person would likely get if they knew no one involved in the court system?  Personal relationships almost always secure a more favorable outcome than someone who has no such ties would receive.  All of which falls under legal and ethical discretion. 

[Belsnickel]

(01-24-2018, 07:43 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Unethical is a strong way to put it.  If you decline to issue a citation to someone, as has happened to my father, because they are career military, or because they have a reasonable excuse for their error and you perceive them as sincere, this is no different than using said discretion because the person is related to a LEO.  I can get into Coachella for year every year because of who I know.  There are people around the world who would sell a kidney to attend.  I think where people get upset with LEO's engaging in this behavior it's because they perceive the law to be an area in which the "homeboy hookup" shouldn't exist.  I can tell you that not issuing tickets to other LEO's is done both as a professional courtesy and because tickets can negatively impact you at the job, something that doesn't happen in other professions.  All that being said, there are still LEO's who will ticket family members of LEO's or even LEO's themselves.  There is one firm and fast rule, never ticket a lieutenant (or equivalent) or above.

You're using the private sector to compare, though, and that creates a fallacy. The government is supposed to treat every person equally. We are all entitled to the same rights, privileges, and immunities according to the Constitution. As representatives of the executive branch of government, any preferential treatment runs contrary to that. The unspoken rules, the different ways officers handle these things, all of that creates situations in which some citizens are not being treated equitably by the government. That is unethical.

Now, I freely admit that this is my position as a bureaucrat and it may be different if I was someone that was in a position like this. I may see these things as inconsequential were I in your position. But even as minor as it is it violates the ethical positions for government work because it creates inequity.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-25-2018, 11:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: You're using the private sector to compare, though, and that creates a fallacy. The government is supposed to treat every person equally. We are all entitled to the same rights, privileges, and immunities according to the Constitution. As representatives of the executive branch of government, any preferential treatment runs contrary to that. The unspoken rules, the different ways officers handle these things, all of that creates situations in which some citizens are not being treated equitably by the government. That is unethical.

Now, I freely admit that this is my position as a bureaucrat and it may be different if I was someone that was in a position like this. I may see these things as inconsequential were I in your position. But even as minor as it is it violates the ethical positions for government work because it creates inequity.

I understand your point, but I don't think it acknowledges reality.  Knowing people makes certain tasks easier.  If you work at the DMV do you wait in line with everyone else to renew your drivers license?  

[fredtoast]

(01-24-2018, 08:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Let's say a relative of yours is arrested in the same jurisdiction that you work in.  You don't think you'd use your relationships in the DA's office to secure a more favorable outcome than a person would likely get if they knew no one involved in the court system?  Personal relationships almost always secure a more favorable outcome than someone who has no such ties would receive.  All of which falls under legal and ethical discretion. 

No this is not ethical at all.  The fact that you, as a police officer, thinks so is very troubling to me.  Especially since the District Attorneys works so closely with police officers.  You are basically admitting that if a police officer is charged with a crime then the District Attorneys office will give him a "favorable outcome" under some sort of "ethical" discretion.

Also we are talking about THIRTY A YEAR for EVERY SINGLE OFFICER.  That goes way beyond just helping out a family member every once in a while unless all of these officers are member of a crime syndicate family.  It is clear that these cards were traded for favors or sold for cash.  That is legalized bribery.  Giving an officer cash or a favor in order to get away with a crime.

This is proof of widespread corruption and abuse of the power by police officers.

[fredtoast]

(01-25-2018, 12:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I understand your point, but I don't think it acknowledges reality.  Knowing people makes certain tasks easier.  If you work at the DMV do you wait in line with everyone else to renew your drivers license?  

It absolutely acknowledges reality.

When a person is allowed to cut inline at the DMV it pisses off everyone behind that person.  The fact that it happens does not mean it is okay.  That is the problem with police officers.   They think corruption is okay as long as they are the ones benefiting form it.  Then they act shocked when people accuse them of being corrupt.

You can't come out and admit that you give your buddies breaks and then act shocked when one of your buddies kills someone and you are accused of giving him a break.  You can't brag about the "honor" of the "blue wall" and then act shocked when people accuse you of lying to protect a crooked cop.