New York attorney general seeks to dissolve NRA...

[BmorePat87]

(08-07-2020, 12:11 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Which I honestly find a little disturbing.



Of course the age of the organization means something.  This is not a fly by night Nigerian prince scam, it's the oldest civil rights organization in the nation.  It falling under the rule of some corrupt bureaucrats does not justify its dissolution.  You're punishing the millions of members of the organization for the actions of a minute few.  Go after those dues all you want, if they did what is alleged they deserve every bit of it.



A fair point for which I will apologize.  It's been a long week and I may have been two Jack and cokes in when I typed that.

As Bel pointed out, she has the legal authority to seek such an outcome.  That she is doing so, and the reasons for it, is horrible optics.  It reeks of a political motive and may end up hindering her criminal case, although probably not for all of those accused.  Especially in an election year, the optics of this move are as bad as they could possibly be.

You find the fraud disturbing or me thinking breaking the law to such a degree can warrant a legally authorized penalty?

If they've spent, as was suggested, decades committing fraud, that has weight as well. 

I don't take anything from you personally. As I've said recently, I have nothing but respect for you. I know that lends a level of candor, and it was good faith ribbing on my part. 

I am not blind to the optics here and the potential bias. If what is said is true, and the courts feel this is the best route, I would support it. It also may be for the best of those who is once sought to help, given the financial mess it is in due to litigation and fraud. Starting fresh or investing in another gun rights organization may be a better route than paying to solve what is happening at the NRA. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-07-2020, 12:53 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: You find the fraud disturbing or me thinking breaking the law to such a degree can warrant a legally authorized penalty?

If they've spent, as was suggested, decades committing fraud, that has weight as well.

I think you're misunderstanding me.  If these guys committed the alleged acts then they absolutely deserve to be punished accordingly.  As I said earlier, LaPierre has been an incredibly divisive figure within the NRA and millions of members would likely be happy to see him go.  What I find utterly disturbing is using these actions to attempt to dissolve the organization as a whole.  As I said in my first post in this thread, if that was the standard we'd have dissolved Congress long ago.  Prosecute the criminals all day, that's your job and good on you for doing it properly.  The minute she decided to attempt to dissolve the organization entirely she made this a political issue.  Some may say this was inadvertent, I highly doubt this.  She's intentionally using the fraud of some in upper management to attempt to destroy the organization.

Quote:I don't take anything from you personally. As I've said recently, I have nothing but respect for you. I know that lends a level of candor, and it was good faith ribbing on my part. 

It's all good and thank you.

Quote:I am not blind to the optics here and the potential bias. If what is said is true, and the courts feel this is the best route, I would support it. It also may be for the best of those who is once sought to help, given the financial mess it is in due to litigation and fraud. Starting fresh or investing in another gun rights organization may be a better route than paying to solve what is happening at the NRA. 

I addressed this earlier with my NATO comparison.  IN this instance I don't agree.  The NRA has become divisive because the left (yes I'm using that nebulous term) made it a priority to smear them and paint them as an organization that wants children to be killed.  Rebranding is enabling and encouraging that type of strategy and I am 100% dead set against that.

[BmorePat87]

(08-07-2020, 01:10 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think you're misunderstanding me.  If these guys committed the alleged acts then they absolutely deserve to be punished accordingly.  As I said earlier, LaPierre has been an incredibly divisive figure within the NRA and millions of members would likely be happy to see him go.  What I find utterly disturbing is using these actions to attempt to dissolve the organization as a whole.  As I said in my first post in this thread, if that was the standard we'd have dissolved Congress long ago.  Prosecute the criminals all day, that's your job and good on you for doing it properly.  The minute she decided to attempt to dissolve the organization entirely she made this a political issue.  Some may say this was inadvertent, I highly doubt this.  She's intentionally using the fraud of some in upper management to attempt to destroy the organization.


It's all good and thank you.


I addressed this earlier with my NATO comparison.  IN this instance I don't agree.  The NRA has become divisive because the left (yes I'm using that nebulous term) made it a priority to smear them and paint them as an organization that wants children to be killed.  Rebranding is enabling and encouraging that type of strategy and I am 100% dead set against that.

I understood, I was just finding a clever way to present dissolution as a legal option. I know your position is that the penalties should rest with those who committed the fraud (and possibly monetary sanction for the NRA?) but not the complete dissolution. 

Of course there's no legal ability to dissolve Congress.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

A rather interesting read from a former NRA mega donor (I'm familiar with the guy) on the current proceedings in New York State.  If you're at all interested in this subject, give it a read.  I'm almost in complete agreement with his assessment.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dellaquila-nra-needs-to-dissolve-in-new-york-write-a-big-check-and-re-charter-in-texas/ 

[Belsnickel]

(08-10-2020, 06:46 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A rather interesting read from a former NRA mega donor (I'm familiar with the guy) on the current proceedings in New York State.  If you're at all interested in this subject, give it a read.  I'm almost in complete agreement with his assessment.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dellaquila-nra-needs-to-dissolve-in-new-york-write-a-big-check-and-re-charter-in-texas/ 

I actually have to say that I like what the guy says, there. I would still want to see some commitments to focusing the mission on only supporting 2A protection efforts and promoting safe firearm handling. The debacle that was NRATV and NRA-ILA essentially becoming a GOP PAC shouldn't be happening.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-10-2020, 08:34 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I actually have to say that I like what the guy says, there. I would still want to see some commitments to focusing the mission on only supporting 2A protection efforts and promoting safe firearm handling. The debacle that was NRATV and NRA-ILA essentially becoming a GOP PAC shouldn't be happening.

I agree as well.  I watched NRA TV after you pointed it out and it was cringe inducing.  The only show I liked, Colion Noir's quickly jumped ship.  I will say I never mind Dana Loesch being on screen.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

So, it resurfaced that the NY AG called the NRA a "terrorist organization" in an interview prior to taking office. I'm sure that had nothing to do with her attempts to dissolve the organization. Careful what you say kids, the internet is forever, unless you're Chris Rock's first pitch.

https://www.ebony.com/news/letitia-tish-james-on-becoming-new-yorks-next-attorney-general/


The NRA holds [itself] out as a charitable organization, but in fact, [it] really [is] a terrorist organization.

[BigPapaKain]

The NRA hasn't been the NRA in a long time. They're just gun manufacturer lobbyists at this point and they should be dissolved on that alone (corporate lobbying is bad).

They had their chances to get back on the right side of things over the years, but they just stick their head in the sand and wait for it to go away.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

Even the ACLU is now taking AG "The NRA is a terrorist organization" to task.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-nra-has-a-right-to-exist-11598457143

The best part IMO;

And that’s why we believe Ms. James has also gone too far. Dissolution of a nonprofit is the most extreme remedy state regulators can seek. It has historically been reserved for organizations that are essentially false fronts for personal gain.

The NRA is different. It’s been around for more than 150 years and has millions of members. It engages in a range of lawful and properly tax-exempt pursuits, including teaching gun safety, operating shooting ranges, educating the public, and lobbying for laws that protect gun rights. If some of its leaders have become corrupt, they should be removed. If its board was incompetent in checking their abuses, it should be reformed.

This woman has an agenda that has nothing to do with the law and everyone is catching on to it. Quite honestly she should be disbarred for abusing the powers of her office.

[Belsnickel]

(08-27-2020, 09:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Even the ACLU is now taking AG "The NRA is a terrorist organization" to task.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-nra-has-a-right-to-exist-11598457143

The best part IMO;

And that’s why we believe Ms. James has also gone too far. Dissolution of a nonprofit is the most extreme remedy state regulators can seek. It has historically been reserved for organizations that are essentially false fronts for personal gain.

The NRA is different. It’s been around for more than 150 years and has millions of members. It engages in a range of lawful and properly tax-exempt pursuits, including teaching gun safety, operating shooting ranges, educating the public, and lobbying for laws that protect gun rights. If some of its leaders have become corrupt, they should be removed. If its board was incompetent in checking their abuses, it should be reformed.

This woman has an agenda that has nothing to do with the law and everyone is catching on to it. Quite honestly she should be disbarred for abusing the powers of her office.

I don't know about disbarred, but definitely a censure is in order for her, I think. Actions against a non-profit like this should be done to protect the people. Her actions are not being done with that intention.

[GMDino]

I don't know if the NRA has a "right" to exist as it is or not.  I do know that people will go to great lengths to defend people who stole and lied and cheated them because they are afraid of something else happening that those people did nothing to help with in the first place.

[Belsnickel]

Here's a different article on the ACLU stuff that isn't behind a paywall. https://reason.com/2020/08/26/the-aclu-defends-the-nra/

[GMDino]

(08-28-2020, 09:24 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Here's a different article on the ACLU stuff that isn't behind a paywall. https://reason.com/2020/08/26/the-aclu-defends-the-nra/

"Conservatives" (not the real ones) will be flipping out over the ACLU defending the NRA.  After all that group only defends "liberals"!

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-28-2020, 07:34 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I don't know about disbarred, but definitely a censure is in order for her, I think. Actions against a non-profit like this should be done to protect the people. Her actions are not being done with that intention.

Oh, I know disbarred won't happen, but a guy can dream, can't he?

(08-28-2020, 09:06 AM)GMDino Wrote: I don't know if the NRA has a "right" to exist as it is or not.

I do know that people will go to great lengths to defend people who stole and lied and cheated them because they are afraid of something else happening that those people did nothing to help with in the first place.

Not sure about that whole 1st Amendment thing, eh?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-28-2020, 09:06 AM)GMDino Wrote: I don't know if the NRA has a "right" to exist as it is or not.  I do know that people will go to great lengths to defend people who stole and lied and cheated them because they are afraid of something else happening that those people did nothing to help with in the first place.

Find one person here who has stated anything remotely like this.  I've pointed out, numerous times in this thread, that LaPierre and his cronies are deeply unpopular with the rank and file NRA membership.  I've posted an article from a NRA mega-donor outlining exactly that, why it happened and how to fix it.  Got any examples of these people "going to great lengths" other than those conjured up in your head?  As your comrade Dill would say, post some proof of your allegation.

(08-28-2020, 09:28 AM)GMDino Wrote: "Conservatives" (not the real ones) will be flipping out over the ACLU defending the NRA.  After all that group only defends "liberals"!

Nah, I doubt that.  You'll probably largely hear something along the lines of, "they got it right for once".  The ACLU used to be a defender of civil liberties from both sides of the spectrum.  They have gradually morphed into a more partisan, left leaning, organization.  But there's still enough of the old school mentality in the organization that they will balk at clear abuses of power such as the topic of this thread.

[GMDino]

Given all the trouble the NRA seems to be having with the misappropriation of funds and such I'd think selecting the grifter's son (who is legally barred from even running a charity foundation) would be "iffy" at best.

https://www.politicalflare.com/2020/12/donald-trump-jr-is-reportedly-interested-in-taking-over-the-nra-and-firing-current-head-wayne-lapierre/

Quote:Donald Trump Jr. is Reportedly Interested in Taking Over the NRA and Firing Current Head Wayne Lapierre
BY MEGAN HAMILTON
DECEMBER 3, 2020


As the presidency of Donald Trump sinks below the horizon, his son Donald Trump Jr. is looking for ways to stay in the public eye as rumors swirl that he may run for president in 2024 if his father doesn’t, Raw Story reports.


It’s now reported, however, that he’s gunning for someone else’s job: the one currently held by NRA executive vice-president Wayne LaPierre. This comes at a time when the National Rifle Association is really struggling and New York’s Attorney General Letitia James has leveled a massive lawsuit against the organization amid allegations of fraud and self-dealing and is calling for the organization to be dissolved.


Reports of enormous financial misdeeds and cash irregularities, including hefty payments to top officials inside the organization have also done their damage. Then of course there are all those reports linking the NRA to Russia and the $30 million it spent in 2016 to help Trump become president.


That led Senate Democrats on the Finance Committee to publish a 2019 report that focused on how a tax-exempt organization became a puppet for Russia.

Trump Jr.’s behavior hasn’t been any better. The New York Supreme Court has ordered him to undergo training after dear old dad was forced to cough up $2 million in damages “for improperly using charitable assets to intervene in the 2016 presidential primaries and further his own political interests.”

He also thinks nothing of slaughtering rare and endangered animals across the globe because yup, that’s the kind of guy he is. This is a man who, often accompanied by his brother Eric has killed African elephants, at least one leopard, and allegedly killed other animals including a civet cat, kudu, waterbuck, crocodile, moose, and Iberian Ibex, OneGreenPlanet reports. And these trips cost thousands of dollars.

Now Trump Jr. has the NRA leadership in his sights but considering his legal difficulties in New York, it’s pretty questionable as to whether he’ll revive the flailing organization. That hasn’t prevented his handlers from being upbeat, however.

Quote:“Donald Trump Jr. and his tight-knit team have been pondering taking control of the National Rifle Association,” Trump advisers said recently. “It’s one more way the Trump family is making big plays to cement itself in GOP conservative politics for the next four years.

This is, however, a major worry for Everytown for Gun Safety, as many within the respected organization don’t view this as good news.

Quote:“It’s hard to believe the NRA may soon be led by someone even more incompetent and corrupt than Wayne LaPierre, but evidently that’s a very real possibility,” said Everytown president John Feinblatt. “In a way, it would be a perfect fit — both NRA leadership and Don Jr. are totally indifferent to the loss of American lives.”

I don’t think I could have said that better myself.



UPDATE: Trump is now denying the report, saying it’s “fake news”. But this is a Trump we are talking about…

Obviously it's just a rumor but still funny to imagine.

[fredtoast]

(12-04-2020, 11:38 AM)GMDino Wrote: Given all the trouble the NRA seems to be having with the misappropriation of funds and such I'd think selecting the grifter's son (who is legally barred from even running a charity foundation) would be "iffy" at best.

https://www.politicalflare.com/2020/12/donald-trump-jr-is-reportedly-interested-in-taking-over-the-nra-and-firing-current-head-wayne-lapierre/



Obviously it's just a rumor but still funny to imagine.

I could see starting his own paramilitary operation.  

Invest in his own line of guns, ammunitions, etc (Trump Steaks except with weapons)

Start his own training facility (Trump University except with military training).

He could make a bunch of money off his base and have his own militia by the 2024 election a.k.a. "The Trump Boys".

[GMDino]

In totally non-surprising news the NRA is filing for bankruptcy...so they can move to Texas.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/15/nra-files-for-bankruptcy-says-it-will-reincorporate-in-texas.html

POLITICS

Quote:NRA files for bankruptcy, says it will reincorporate in Texas
PUBLISHED FRI, JAN 15 20214:18 PM ESTUPDATED FRI, JAN 15 20218:29 PM EST

Amanda Macias@AMANDA_M_MACIAS

Dan Mangan@_DANMANGAN
SHAREShare Article via FacebookShare Article via TwitterShare Article via LinkedInShare Article via Email


KEY POINTS

•  The National Rifle Association filed for bankruptcy protection as part of a restructuring plan aimed at moving the influential gun rights group to Texas.
• The filing comes six months New York state’s attorney general filed a lawsuit seeking to dissolve the NRA for allegedly misappropriating funds.political and regulatory environment in New York,” where it is currently registered.
• AG General Letitia James accuses the organization’s leadership of diverting millions for their own personal use, resulting in a $64 million loss to the NRA.
  

Guns are displayed inside a store on June 17, 2016 in Lake Barrington, Illinois.
Scott Olson | Getty Images
WASHINGTON – The National Rifle Association on Friday filed for bankruptcy protection as part of a restructuring plan aimed at moving the influential gun rights group to Texas.

The filing comes six months after New York state’s attorney general filed a lawsuit seeking to dissolve the NRA for allegedly misappropriating funds.

The advocacy group said that it would restructure as a Texas nonprofit to exit from what it described as “a corrupt political and regulatory environment in New York,” where it is currently registered
The NRA, which said it was not financially broke, filed for protection under Chapter 11 in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Dallas.

In its filing, the group said it has assets of between $100 million and $500 million, and liabilities in the same dollar range.

The NRA’s largest unsecured creditor was its former ad agency Ackerman McQueen, which is owed $1.27 million, according to the filing. The gun group and the ad company have filed contentious lawsuits against one another.

“The plan can be summed up quite simply: We are DUMPING New York, and we are pursuing plans to reincorporate the NRA in Texas,” wrote NRA CEO and executive vice president Wayne LaPierre in a statement Friday announing the filing.

He added that “no major changes are expected to the NRA’s operations or workforce.”

LaPierre also said that the NRA is not insolvent and the move to Texas would make the organization stronger. “We are as financially strong as we have been in years,” he said.

He added that the organization has no plans at this time to move the NRA headquarters from Fairfax, Virginia.
The NRA said it expected to emerge from bankruptcy within six months, and in a letter to its vendors said it will “propose a plan providing payment in full of all valid creditors’ claims.”

“The NRA will move quickly through the restructuring process. Its day-to-day operations, training programs, and Second Amendment advocacy will continue as usual, which means the NRA will continue to rely on the service of its valued vendors,” the letter said.

New York Attorney General Letitia James said in a statement that the state will review the NRA’s filing, but added: “We will not allow the NRA to use this or any other tactic to evade accountability and my office’s oversight.”

“The NRA’s claimed financial status has finally met its moral status: bankrupt,” she added.

James’s lawsuit accuses the NRA’s leadership of diverting millions for their own personal use, resulting in a $64 million loss to the organization.

Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president and CEO of the National Rifle Association (NRA).
Lucas Jackson | Reuters
Gun safety organizations characterized the NRA’s decision to file bankruptcy as a “desperate maneuver.”

“Let’s be clear about what’s happening here: The NRA — which is losing power and hemorrhaging money — is now filing for bankruptcy in an attempt to escape legal culpability for years of financial mismanagement and illegal self-dealing,” John Feinblatt, president of Everytown for Gun Safety, wrote in a statement Friday.

“This desperate maneuver is a de facto admission of guilt,” he added.

Similarly, Shannon Watts, founder of Moms Demand Action, said that the NRA could attempt to “run from its years of deception, decadence, and self-dealing, but it can’t hide.”

“The NRA has become a front group for gun manufacturers and a personal piggy bank for its leadership - all while endangering millions of lives. They’ve been out of touch with the American people for decades, and now they’re out of money, too,” Watts said.

New York State Attorney General, Letitia James
Lucas Jackson | Reuters
In a statement issued last August, when she sought to dissolve the group, AG James said that, “The NRA’s influence has been so powerful that the organization went unchecked for decades while top executives funneled millions into their own pockets.

“The NRA is fraught with fraud and abuse, which is why, today, we seek to dissolve the NRA, because no organization is above the law,” she added at the time.

James is asking a court to dissolve the NRA and require each of the current and former executives named in the suit to pay full restitution. 

Read more: New York AG seeks to dissolve NRA in lawsuit accusing leaders of self-dealing, causing $64 million in losses

NRA president Carolyn Meadows said in a statement at the time of that filing that the suit is “a baseless, premeditated attack on our organization and the Second Amendment freedoms it fights to defend.”

The suit is another step in a long-running battle between New York and the gun-rights group, which has been chartered in the state since 1871.

It's just political maneuvering, as the article says, to get past how badly they mismanaged all the money given to them.

Some of you have said that it is a good organization for various reasons and so maybe they will use this opportunity to go back to that...but going to Texas where regulations aren't even suggested most of the time I sincerely doubt it.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-15-2021, 10:35 PM)GMDino Wrote: In totally non-surprising news the NRA is filing for bankruptcy...so they can move to Texas.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/15/nra-files-for-bankruptcy-says-it-will-reincorporate-in-texas.html

POLITICS


It's just political maneuvering, as the article says, to get past how badly they mismanaged all the money given to them.

Some of you have said that it is a good organization for various reasons and so maybe they will use this opportunity to go back to that...but going to Texas where regulations aren't even suggested most of the time I sincerely doubt it.

It's more about escaping a state in which the AG is blatantly abusing their power.  But you don't care about that because they share your politics.  I don't like the NRA leadership, at all, but the NY AG should be censured, at the very least, for this nakedly political attack.  For others reading this, the charges related to misuse of funds are fine, explore these charges and if the apply then try and make the stick.  Dissolving the organization is the partisan hackery I am referring to.

[Benton]

(01-16-2021, 01:14 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's more about escaping a state in which the AG is blatantly abusing their power.  But you don't care about that because they share your politics.  I don't like the NRA leadership, at all, but the NY AG should be censured, at the very least, for this nakedly political attack.  For others reading this, the charges related to misuse of funds are fine, explore these charges and if the apply then try and make the stick.  Dissolving the organization is the partisan hackery I am referring to.

Yeah, the nra is my least favorite 2a group, but they've been painted into a corner here. Legally, theyre facing choices of reorganizing or dissolving.