New policy requires on-field players, personnel to stand for anthem

[BonnieBengal]

(05-23-2018, 02:54 PM)Griever Wrote: forced patriotism isnt real patriotism

They don't have to go out on the field at all if they don't want to.

[Millhouse]

Off topic, but the anthem is overly played. Hearing it at almost every single pro sporting event, college, high school, and elsewhere for whatever game is about to be played is just too much to be honest. Anymore when I hear it I am just wanting to get it over so the game can start.

But before some of my fellow Muricans bash me, understand I have heard it my entire life at all the countless number of games I have been too from baseball to football to whatever. The 'patriotism' of the song just isnt there anymore, unless its a special occasion or something awful has recently happened like after 911.

Personally I think it would be a good thing for it to be scaled back quite a bit from being overly played at almost all sporting events. Save it for the opening games, or a game around 4th of July or Memorial Day, Super Bowls, World Series, things like that. Reducing the amount its played will make it more special so to speak. Make the Anthem Great Again!

*disclaimer: it is pretty fascinating how the anthem came about to be played at sporting events. It started with baseball doing it during WW1. Then at some point the NFL adopted it around WW2 I believe. Since then with the uber high levels of patriotism after WW2, it snowballed into even being played at high school games.

[BmorePat87]

We yell "Oooooooo" during the Anthem at "O say does that". Some consider it disrespectful. For Baltimore, it's us celebrating a song written in Baltimore about Baltimore.

There's no one way to show our love for this country. If it means exercising your rights by protesting and calling for your country to be better, then that's fine.


But the NFL is a private employer. They're asking for trouble by not including the players in this decision, though. It'll be violated.

[Belsnickel]

As someone that grew up in an Anabaptist faith, I find the remarks about those that won't stand leaving the country to be in poor taste. There are many people in this nation whose religious convictions are at odds with pledging allegiance or really any form of patriotism, and we're talking Christians.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-24-2018, 08:14 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: We yell "Oooooooo" during the Anthem at "O say does that". Some consider it disrespectful. For Baltimore, it's us celebrating a song written in Baltimore about Baltimore.

Yeah, my mom was upset when we were watching the NHL all star game in Chicago after 9/11.  The crowd was very raucous, as a show of support.  She thought it was disrespectful. 

Quote:There's no one way to show our love for this country. If it means exercising your rights by protesting and calling for your country to be better, then that's fine.

I completely agree.  You just have zero right to do so at your place of work and on your employer's dime.

Quote:But the NFL is a private employer. They're asking for trouble by not including the players in this decision, though. It'll be violated.

Then the players would be acting childish and displaying a remarkable lack of understanding about how businesses work.  As most of them have been extraordinarily pampered their entire adult lives I don't suppose we should find that type of reaction surprising.  In any event, the NFL has a long and well established precedent of limiting personal expression while on the job.  Willie Gay got fined for wearing purple cleats to raise domestic violence awareness.  His mother was murdered in front of him by his father.  That seems rather more innocuous than protesting during the national anthem.

(05-24-2018, 09:26 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: As someone that grew up in an Anabaptist faith, I find the remarks about those that won't stand leaving the country to be in poor taste. There are many people in this nation whose religious convictions are at odds with pledging allegiance or really any form of patriotism, and we're talking Christians.

I agree.  Dissent is fine and something our country was founded and built on.  Just do so on your own time if you want total freedom to do so.

[Yojimbo]

(05-23-2018, 03:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The actual point appears to be lost on some, political protest at a place of business is going to almost always be unwelcome.  If you're in the entertainment business then this is even more unwelcome.  A person's perception is that person's reality, it doesn't matter why Kaepernick and others are kneeling if a person observing their kneeling interprets it as disrespect to our nation.  It doesn't matter why the NFL is allowing it if the person observing it perceives it as disrespecting the nation.  To put it simply, politicizing your business is a piss poor business decision.  Allowing your employees to politicize your business is a piss poor business decision.  I'm not allowed to protest at work, send a personal e-mail from my work e-mail or represent my department in any way during my private life.  This is one of the reasons I have never disclosed what agency I am employed by, as my viewpoints are my own and should not be associated with them in any way.


The NFL made the right call, they just did it a year too late.  If Goodell where anything other than a sock puppet he would have squashed this the first time it happened for the above reasons.  The NFL is a business, it's as simple as that.

It's nearly impossible to just lay down one blanket policy across all businesses.  There are different power dynamics between employees and employers all over the world. In the case of the NFL, the players have much, much more leverage than the average hourly working joe blow. Besides having an extremely powerful union, the players themselves are a necessity, if the NFL wants to remain the best football league, which also gives them a lot of leverage. Unlike most employees, the players are also the product.

There's a reason why the NFL spends so much time and money searching for and signing the best of the best. If the best of the best started going to another league, the NFL would go the way of the XFL in a matter of years.

[Belsnickel]

(05-24-2018, 10:10 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I agree.  Dissent is fine and something our country was founded and built on.  Just do so on your own time if you want total freedom to do so.

Eh, I don't care if they dissent on the job. I disagree with the policy the NFL put in place, but I acknowledge their right to do so and assess penalties for violating the policy.

I guess in the end, this just isn't a big deal to me. I'm not someone that really gives money to the NFL in any form, which I know sounds weird being that I am on this forum based around an NFL team, but pro sports overall have just left me with a bad taste in my mouth the past few years. College sports do as well, but for different reasons.

[Shake n Blake]

Finally, the NFL grows some balls and joins the NBA and MLB who already had such policies in place.

The sideline isn't the place for your social justice opinions. Now...back to football.

[CKwi88]

So what if players link arms during the anthem?

What if they stand in a circle with their heads bowed and arms over each other's shoulders?

What if they raise a fist?

What if they stand on one leg?

[*PhilHos*]

(05-24-2018, 01:35 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: So what if players link arms during the anthem?

What if they stand in a circle with their heads bowed and arms over each other's shoulders?

What if they raise a fist?

What if they stand on one leg?

According to the OP, the players have to stand and be "respectful". So, I think it just depends on how their actions while standing appear.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-24-2018, 01:35 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: So what if players link arms during the anthem?

What if they stand in a circle with their heads bowed and arms over each other's shoulders?

What if they raise a fist?

What if they stand on one leg?

Quote:The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem. During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country.

Quote:2. As citizens, our US Federal Statute (36 U.S. Code § 301 – National anthem) says we should face the flag (or face toward the music if there is no flag) and stand at attention with the right hand over the heart. If the music is prerecorded, look straight ahead.

https://www.mannersmentor.com/12-months-of-holidays/u-s-flag-pledge-of-allegiance-and-national-anthem-etiquette

Not sure why anyone would think this is complicated. None of the methods you mention would be standard procedure for respecting the flag. Hopping on one foot, linking arms, raising a fist, etc would all be about drawing attention to yourself or a cause, rather than respecting a flag. 

This reminds me of a story I heard once about a parent telling their child that he couldn't set "one foot" outside, so he kept his feet on the living room floor and laid out the front door. Lets not make this complicated. Everyone knows what respecting the Anthem entails. We did just fine with it from 1918 to 2016.

[CKwi88]

(05-24-2018, 01:41 PM)PhilHos Wrote: According to the OP, the players have to stand and be "respectful". So, I think it just depends on how their actions while standing appear.

Thats the only rub that I'm getting from all this. What is "respectful" or not is incredibly subjective.

[Belsnickel]

Personally, I think playing the anthem before sporting events is ridiculous, anyway. Before international competition? I get it. But when it is as commonplace as it is it comes off as nationalistic rather than patriotic and it has an effect of desensitization for a lot of people.

JMHO on the matter.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-24-2018, 04:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Personally, I think playing the anthem before sporting events is ridiculous, anyway. Before international competition? I get it. But when it is as commonplace as it is it comes off as nationalistic rather than patriotic and it has an effect of desensitization for a lot of people.

JMHO on the matter.

They play the Canadian Anthem before Raptors and Blue Jays games. So we're not alone.

[Belsnickel]

(05-24-2018, 05:19 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: They play the Canadian Anthem before Raptors and Blue Jays games. So we're not alone.

I'm going to feel old man clicheist about this, but if all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you do it, too?

Edit: also, could that be because it's a league rule for the NBA and MLB (and NHL) as well?

Another edit: Here is an article talking a little about this: http://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2016/08/31/the-star-spangled-banners-place-in-sports-peter-may

[*bfine32*]

Imagine the outrage if the NFL had us stand for a prayer as they do in NASCAR.

[HarleyDog]

Here's the way I look at it. If your father dies (or anyone else for that matter) I will pull over for the procession. Why? Hell, I don't know you and I didnt know your father. However, it's about respect.

If your grandmother is having issues making it up the stairs in a public place, should I stand back with my cell and record in case she falls so I can send to all my friends, post it on FB and see how many responses I get? Or, should I help her up the stairs? I will keep phone in pocket and help her up the stairs.

The flag represents more than any corruption under it. The national anthem explicitly gave people hope in dismal times. It gave soldiers adrenaline and a reason to continue when they wanted to quit. There is more representation of the flag than black lives matter, police brutality, racial profiling and religion and whatever other cause you want to tag to it. It represents all the good along with the bad, but there is a lot of good. A Lot of GOOD!

The flag means a lot to me and I have a very proud military family history. Personally, as I see someone take a knee, all I see is ignorance. But that's how my mind thinks. But I know that right is his, and there is no reason to provoke his rights. Why? Well, the flag stands for that too. But why act like an ass hat and hurt the guy next to you and disrespect it? This aint the hood, a college classroom, a klan rally so there's no reason to make it a protest staple. There are better stages to protest. Like maybe the courthouse steps where the laws are made or the trials are being held? Why bring politics into the friggen NFL? Good God, nobody's happy unless there is dissention among everyone. Turn off your damn TV's and stop listening to Fox, CNN, CBS and all the other biased station who even use political jabs in their programming.

Get outside and enjoy your life and your kids and your surroundings and your freedoms that you don't respect because you've never had to endure any less. I sometimes think we live in a hopeless society. Instead of the continuous support of those kneeling, why not educate them why its respectful to stand? Why? Because it's not all about you!

[*Nately120*]

I think people should respect the flag. But I also think people should respect a lot of that stuff that has been rejected as being a bunch of overly pc nonsense, too.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-24-2018, 05:21 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm going to feel old man clicheist about this, but if all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you do it, too?

Edit: also, could that be because it's a league rule for the NBA and MLB (and NHL) as well?

Another edit: Here is an article talking a little about this: http://www.wbur.org/cognoscenti/2016/08/31/the-star-spangled-banners-place-in-sports-peter-may

Honestly, if they stop playing it at sporting events, I wouldn't care.

If they do play it, I'd prefer everyone (especially players) stand and not make a spectacle/mockery of it.

Regardless of their intent, it doesn't change the effect.

[Millhouse]

(05-24-2018, 04:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Personally, I think playing the anthem before sporting events is ridiculous, anyway. Before international competition? I get it. But when it is as commonplace as it is it comes off as nationalistic rather than patriotic and it has an effect of desensitization for a lot of people.

JMHO on the matter.

Pretty much summed up what I said up above. It has been and is being overplayed, period.

But what even comes off as fake and 'forced nationalistic patriotism', is the millions of dollars the Pentagon paid directly to the NFL and NFL teams to 'salute the troops!' Because if they cant earn patriotism by God they will buy it.