Obama Shames Voters

[*bfine32*]

(09-29-2017, 10:15 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So republicans forced MO to say something stupid?  

Seems to me that democrat "women" seem to want to bash some sort of average group of good, decent, and normal Americans

Nothing more than a member of a minority group telling their peers they must vote for a member of their group.

At least it is not as bad as Madeline Albright telling them there's a special place in Hell for them.

[GMDino]

(09-29-2017, 10:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Is this that deflection Matt hates so? Be prepared to be called out.



Never mind Vas. For some reason you're good.

Why quote Pat to slam Matt?

[Belsnickel]

(09-29-2017, 10:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Is this that deflection Matt hates so? Be prepared to be called out.

While the method left much to be desired, pointing out the behavior Trump exhibited that would be part of the reason for Michelle Obama's comments isn't deflection. The last comment made was, but not the bulk of it. I don't know how pointing out the misogyny of Trump in support of someone saying women that voted for him voting against their own interests is deflection.

[BmorePat87]

I would say Trump saying that the women who accused him and Bill Clinton of sexual assault aren't good looking enough would be misogynistic. He told New York Magazine in an interview in 1992 that "you have to treat [women] like shit". Saying that women working is "dangerous". Saying that women are gold diggers and even the good ones who aren't and love their husbands aren't worth marrying if they won't sign prenups. After Princess Diana died, he said he'd have had her get an HIV test then "nail her". On multiple occasions he has sexualized preteen and teen girls. Calls breastfeeding "disgusting". Said Megyn Kelly was a "bimbo" and was probably on her period after the debate.


Just some examples

[BmorePat87]

(09-29-2017, 10:53 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Never mind Vas. For some reason you're good.

You didn't like my joke?

[BmorePat87]

As for Michelle? She can say whatever she wants. Private citizen, right?

Is it necessarily a good move? I don't think any of the women who voted for him were necessarily going to be swing voters. She misses the part where a lot of women are indeed conservative and do not see a place for themselves in the Democratic party if the focus is on progressivism and not the more populist ideals that he threw around. She assumes the identity they embrace the most is that of a "woman" and not "conservative" or "christian" or "mother" or many other identities.

[*Nately120*]

Normally this sort of thing would seem overarching and a bit silly, but part of Trump's apparently charm was that he was a misogynistic good ol' boy who grabbed and took what he wanted and was going to take this country back to the good ol' days. You can't have your cake and eat too.

If people can look at Trump and say he's a Don Draper style alpha male and assume he's going to be awesome because of it then I can see why people would also assume he's going to be a d-bag because of it. Trump benefits from the caricature he presented, but that sort of stuff doesn't have repercussions, too.


Short version - I can see why people make blanket statements about politicians/politics now because we've simplified everything into sound bytes and quick generalizations.

[*bfine32*]

(09-29-2017, 10:00 AM)Benton Wrote: hillary lost relevancy by thanksgiving, not sure why anyone still cares.

Didn't she just publish a book about the election?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-28-2017, 11:32 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: That's her deal. She bad mouths and Shames anyone who rejects or questions them.

I can only imagine the ourage if she called someone a son of a ***** because she disagreed with them.

[Dill]

(09-28-2017, 11:57 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Anyone who believes voters should band together solely due to race or gender is either racist, sexist, or both, no?

I never understood how people thought that was okay. There's nobody thinking it's okay if men say "if you voted for Clinton, you voted against your own voice" of think it's okay if white people say "if you voted for Obama, you voted against your own voice".

So why is it suddenly okay when famous minorities or women shame other minorities or women for not voting according to race or gender? "Equality"

MIchelle Obama's point seems to be that Trump was a misogynist who does not work very hard to recognize women's interests. He is probably incapable of doing so at this point.

So she raises the question of why women voted for him, since they would be voting against their own "voice."

A legitimate question.

She is not arguing that women should have voted for Hillary because she was a "woman."  She certainly would not have urged them to vote for Sarah Palin because she was a woman.  And she would agree that her husband was not a misogynist, and voting for him would not be voting against women's interests.

So Michelle OBama is not asking people to band together and vote solely on a candidates race or gender. She is saying people should vote for candidates that do not overlook or denigrate voters because of the race or gender.

[Dill]

(09-29-2017, 11:02 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I would say Trump saying that the women who accused him and Bill Clinton of sexual assault aren't good looking enough would be misogynistic. He told New York Magazine in an interview in 1992 that "you have to treat [women] like shit". Saying that women working is "dangerous". Saying that women are gold diggers and even the good ones who aren't and love their husbands aren't worth marrying if they won't sign prenups. After Princess Diana died, he said he'd have had her get an HIV test then "nail her". On multiple occasions he has sexualized preteen and teen girls. Calls breastfeeding "disgusting". Said Megyn Kelly was a "bimbo" and was probably on her period after the debate.


Just some examples

Ok, but other than that what has he done to appear misogynistic?

[Dill]

(09-29-2017, 10:55 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Nothing more than a member of a minority group telling their peers they must vote for a member of their group.

At least it is not as bad as Madeline Albright telling them there's a special place in Hell for them.

Women are a minority?

[Dill]

(09-29-2017, 12:39 AM)Vlad Wrote: Liberal privilege.

Liberals can also make racist comments like those uttered by Joe Biden, Harry Reid and a slew of others and get a pass...not so with conservatives.

Who is handing out the "passes" you refer to? 

[*bfine32*]

(09-29-2017, 01:15 PM)Dill Wrote: MIchelle Obama's point seems to be that Trump was a misogynist who does not work very hard to recognize women's interests. He is probably incapable of doing so at this point.

So she raises the question of why women voted for him, since they would be voting against their own "voice."

A legitimate question.

She is not arguing that women should have voted for Hillary because she was a "woman."  She certainly would not have urged them to vote for Sarah Palin because she was a woman.  And she would agree that her husband was not a misogynist, and voting for him would not be voting against women's interests.

So Michelle OBama is not asking people to band together and vote solely on a candidates race or gender. She is saying people should vote for candidates that do not overlook or denigrate voters because of the race or gender.

So they should vote for a person who turned a blind-eye while her husband was getting blow jobs in the oval office. That'll definitely show them what empowerment is.

Bottom line: Michelle Obama shamed every woman that voted for Donald Trump and some people apparently support it: "You like the thing you're told to like." 

[Dill]

(09-29-2017, 09:09 AM)Vlad Wrote: My my, how awful. I bet no private citizen ever said anything remotely close.

Certainly no politician ever said anything remotely close.

I presume you bought into the accusation that all those Clinton woman that came forward, and whos ***** were actually grabbed, were just gold digging bimbos.

Where were all the womens rights groups and feminazis then? No marchers wearing ***** on their heads?

Oh c'mon,  that was Bill just being Bill right?

Correct. No high public official, certainly no president since Jackson, has ever behaved like Trump.  He shames the entire nation every week.

But not everyone cares either if he is misogynistic or shames the nation.

Women's rights marchers normally come forward when politicians do and say things in public to influence policy in ways that affect women's interests.  So they will march to protest election of a misogynist. They are unlikely to march against someone who crafts legislation to insure pay equality.  There's your mysterious liberal hypocrisy.

Outside of right wing circles, people don't know that "all those women who came forward" to accuse Clinton were "actually grabbed."  

[Millhouse]

Wait. Did she say that back in 08 when Hillary was running against her husband or this last election?

[Dill]

(09-29-2017, 01:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So they should vote for a person who turned a blind-eye while her husband was getting blow jobs in the oval office. That'll definitely show them what empowerment is.

Bottom line: Michelle Obama shamed every woman that voted for Donald Trump and some people apparently support it: "You like the thing you're told to like." 

I've seen no evidence Hillary turned a "blind eye" to anything.  And acts between consenting adults general don't trouble the notion of "empowerment."  Voting for someone who brags about grabbing women and makes horrible public comments about their looks does. 

This election was in part about who can see the difference who can't--or doesn't care. 

Bottom line: Michelle made a valid point.  Fine if Trump shames women for being overweight or plastic surgery or talking back to their men or not having dinner ready, but not if Michelle questions why women would vote for someone like Trump. Men pop up on this forum saying THAT's the shaming we need to worry about, not insults about women's looks from the commander in chief.

This is one part of the Trump effect--defending him requires that public standards/decorum be dropped.  And it means you have to criticize people who hold up those standards.  

[*bfine32*]

(09-29-2017, 02:01 PM)Dill Wrote: I've seen no evidence Hillary turned a "blind eye" to anything.  And acts between consenting adults general don't trouble the notion of "empowerment."  Voting for someone who brags about grabbing women and makes horrible public comments about their looks does. 

This election was in part about who can see the difference who can't--or doesn't care. 

Bottom line: Michelle made a valid point.  Fine if Trump shames women for being overweight or plastic surgery or talking back to their men or not having dinner ready, but not if Michelle questions why women would vote for someone like Trump. Men pop up on this forum saying THAT's the shaming we need to worry about, not insults about women's looks from the commander in chief.

This is one part of the Trump effect--defending him requires that public standards/decorum be dropped.  And it means you have to criticize people who hold up those standards.  

I'll just assume you are unaware of Hillary's reaction to Juanita Broaddrick and other women that accused Bill of sexual abuse. Or Monica's assertion the Hill's "blamed the women" for Bill's transgressions.

Before you go: "Where's the proof, these are just allegations". Ask yourself would you give Trump the same benefit of the doubt.


You can roll with she "made a valid point". I'll roll with she belittled any woman that voted for Trump simply because she thought they should not. 

[Matt_Crimson]

(09-29-2017, 09:32 AM)GMDino Wrote: His disdain for the women he was married too for one.

Openly cheating on them and bragging about it.

Start there....

(09-29-2017, 09:52 AM)hollodero Wrote: He bragged about grabbing women by the *****. He walked into the locker room of beauty contests unannounced (and brags about it). He said no one is going to vote for Calry Fiorina because she was ugly. He hinted on Megyn Kelly bleeding out of her "whatever" (and called her a bimbo). He attacked Mika Brz...() about allegedly having an awful facelift. He actually has a pattern of attacking a woman's looks if she's opposed to him - only the top are his comments about Rosie O'Donnell or understanding why Ariana Huffington's husband turned gay. He openly admired the looks of Macrons wife. He said putting a wife to work is a dangerous thing. He said Hillary couldn't satisfy America because she couldn't even satisfy her husband. He planned to seat Bill's affairs in the front row at his debate with Hillary. 

Now while I do not fully agree with Michelle Obama's statement - you can't honestly claim to not uderstand why Trump is called a misogynist. The hints are there.

The problem I have with the whole misogyny thing is that misogyny is basically another way of saying Trump hates women. Sure we can get into semantics and talk about how misogyny doesn't necessarily have to mean "hate" but the fact of the matter is that most of the time when anyone uses the word they are implying that the person they're applying it to does in fact hate women or just doesn't really care about them.

Trump has made bad comments about women..... but he makes bad comments about a lot of people and doesn't just attack women. Also I'm not sure how cheating and bragging about it makes you a misogynist.


The reason I'm arguing this is because Michelle Obama is doing exactly what I just said, whixh is implying that Trump doesn't care about women by saying he's not a "voice" for them and therefore is a misogynist. I fail to see how such a conclusion is reached. Because he says bad things about people? Sorry but that doesn't amount to hating women or not caring about them.

[BmorePat87]

(09-29-2017, 01:23 PM)Dill Wrote: Women are a minority?

For practical purposes and by the sociological definition, yes. They are not the majority in power.