Obama to announce new executive orders on gun control

[Vlad]

Amazing how much a president can get done these days.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/31/politics/obama-to-announce-new-executive-action-on-guns/

And if you're interested in more of the details rather than the superficial CNN report then go here:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/12/31/obama-executive-action-on-guns-to-broaden-background-checks-atf-authority/

[GMDino]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/01/obama-to-impose-new-gun-control-curbs-next-week/

Quote:Obama began examining how he could tighten the nation’s gun rules after October’s mass shooting at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Ore., but administration lawyers have spent months reviewing any proposals to ensure they can withstand legal scrutiny. The idea of requiring informal gun dealers to obtain a license from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and perform background checks on potential buyers first came up two years ago, but was shelved over legal concerns.


The current federal statute dictates that those who are “engaged in the business” of dealing firearms need to obtain a federal license — and, therefore, conduct background checks — but exempts anyone “who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.”

Gun control advocates — including former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), who was gravely injured in a 2011 mass shooting, and former New York City mayor Michael R. Bloomberg — have met personally with Obama over the past month to push for the background checks expansion and other measures.

Everytown spokeswoman Erika Soto Lamb, whose group was founded with Bloomberg’s support, said the current interpretation of what it means to be “engaged in the business” of selling firearms is “a hazy definition that allows high-volume sellers to transfer thousands of guns without background checks, no questions asked.”

Other proposals the administration has been weighing include requiring federally-licensed gun dealers to report any lost and stolen guns to the National Crime Information Center; publishing aggregate background check denial data for guns sold by unlicensed sellers; clarifying that convicted abusers are prohibited from having guns regardless of their marital status; and instructing federal law enforcement to identify and arrest criminals who attempt to buy illegal guns.

[SunsetBengal]

And it will do nothing to stop street criminals from obtaining weapons.

Hard to understand the logic behind making it tougher on the folks who are trying to do things the proper, legal way..

[GMDino]

(01-01-2016, 12:51 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: And it will do nothing to stop street criminals from obtaining weapons.

Hard to understand the logic behind making it tougher on the folks who are trying to do things the proper, legal way..

But is it bad to require a better definition of the rules or to have to make people report stolen or lost weapons?

[StLucieBengal]

Hey he has a pen and a phone.

Just what we need him lording over us with more rules he decides. God forbid we let our representatives debate.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-01-2016, 12:56 PM)GMDino Wrote: But is it bad to require a better definition of the rules or to have to make people report stolen or lost weapons?

There are already plenty of laws governing gun purchases/sales/ownership.  I don't know how it goes in your particular State, but here in NC, the laws are pretty clear and tight.  In NC, one must apply for a handgun purchase permit, through their local Sherriff's office.  That permit is given to the seller, to show that the gun was transferred to an individual of legal standing to own a gun.  Let's not forget that the young man that shot up the black folks in SC slipped through the cracks of the system.  Perhaps the answer isn't simply more laws, but more effective enforcement of the ones that we already have?

[Vlad]

Obamas hometown of Chicago ushers in the first homicide of the New Year.

If only Obama had acted earlier, coulda saved a life.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/01/01/chicagos-first-homicide-of-2016-man-shot-to-death-in-grand-boulevard/

[Belsnickel]

(01-01-2016, 12:51 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: And it will do nothing to stop street criminals from obtaining weapons.

Hard to understand the logic behind making it tougher on the folks who are trying to do things the proper, legal way..

I agree that this won't do much, but there is a phrase I heard recently that has made me pause on some of these things: Every illegal firearm starts off as a legal one. Something that has made me rethink my stance on some gun control measures.

[JustWinBaby]

(01-01-2016, 06:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I agree that this won't do much, but there is a phrase I heard recently that has made me pause on some of these things: Every illegal firearm starts off as a legal one. Something that has made me rethink my stance on some gun control measures.

There are already millions of illegal guns lost in the ether.  200k guns stolen every year.

Short of banning and confiscating guns - which will probably never happen - nothing is going to change.  The issue is just a political football for politicians to grandstand and bloviate.  It's nothing but a bunch of ineffective proposals that won't change anything in a meaningful way, anywhere, and people opposing it pretending like it will and that it's treason.

It's a lot like the abortion issue.  All the talk and debate accomplishes is to herd single-issue voters into voting blocs.

[Rotobeast]

(01-01-2016, 06:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote:  Every illegal firearm starts off as a legal one.

Whilst most likely,  not 100% true.
IE: most improvised or fabricated firearms

(01-01-2016, 07:03 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: There are already millions of illegal guns lost in the ether.  200k guns stolen every year.

Short of banning and confiscating guns - which will probably never happen - nothing is going to change.  The issue is just a political football for politicians to grandstand and bloviate.  It's nothing but a bunch of ineffective proposals that won't change anything in a meaningful way, anywhere, and people opposing it pretending like it will and that it's treason.

It's a lot like the abortion issue.  All the talk and debate accomplishes is to herd single-issue voters into voting blocs.

Yep.
Pandora's box has been open so long that we're living in that SOB.
I'm with the stronger punishment crowd.
Bring back public humiliation and execution. 

[SunsetBengal]

(01-01-2016, 06:57 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I agree that this won't do much, but there is a phrase I heard recently that has made me pause on some of these things: Every illegal firearm starts off as a legal one. Something that has made me rethink my stance on some gun control measures.

Part of what makes the laws in NC so viable is that the seller has to show who they sold to.  It is a crime to sell a handgun to anyone not having a permit to give to the seller.  If a buyer has a CC permit, they still have sign bill of sale to transfer ownership.

[Belsnickel]

(01-01-2016, 07:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Part of what makes the laws in NC so viable is that the seller has to show who they sold to.  It is a crime to sell a handgun to anyone not having a permit to give to the seller.  If a buyer has a CC permit, they still have sign bill of sale to transfer ownership.

See, Virginia is very lax. Unless you are a licensed dealer, no check is needed. No record of the transaction is done beyond the BATF required record kept by the dealer. If I walk out after purchasing a handgun and sell it to a friend there is no record and no knowledge of it. No permit is needed to own any firearm and no permit is needed for open carry.

[*bfine32*]

As many have said: There' already enough dirty firearms out there; that if you want one, you can get one in most cases.

The answer has to come in the form of punishment:

A. You lose or have a firearm stolen and do not immediately report it to the authorities; jail time

B. You are found in the possession of an illegal firearm: jail time.

Making Molly Sue wait while we run here credit report is not going to stop anything.

[Belsnickel]

(01-01-2016, 08:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As many have said: There' already enough dirty firearms out there; that if you want one, you can get one in most cases.

The answer has to come in the form of punishment:

A. You lose or have a firearm stolen and do not immediately report it to the authorities; jail time

B. You are found in the possession of an illegal firearm: jail time.

Making Molly Sue wait while we run here credit report is not going to stop anything.

Well, the reporting it stolen doesn't work much for places where there is no record of who owns the firearm. Beyond the initial point of sale record the dealer maintains there is nothing on firearm ownership in Virginia. They can change hands a dozen times legally here with no records.

[Aquapod770]

(01-01-2016, 08:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As many have said: There' already enough dirty firearms out there; that if you want one, you can get one in most cases.

The answer has to come in the form of punishment:

A. You lose or have a firearm stolen and do not immediately report it to the authorities; jail time

B. You are found in the possession of an illegal firearm: jail time.

Making Molly Sue wait while we run here credit report is not going to stop anything.

One state tried B not too long ago. I forget which one. It worked, but for some reason they stopped doing it because it was too racist. 

[mallorian69]

(01-01-2016, 10:24 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: One state tried B not too long ago. I forget which one. It worked, but for some reason they stopped doing it because it was too racist. 

Thats because all laws are white man's laws. Every single law on the books unfairly targets the black man because a higher % of the black population breaks them compared to whites.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

I don't like guns. I think the world would be a hell of a better place without them. I don't think that more strict regulations will do much of anything though.

If someone wants a gun bad enough, they're gonna get one. I'm actually surprised how easy it is. The guy that used to sell me weed has offered me guns before (I have no clue why), and if I wanted one and couldn't get it legally due to past criminal behavior, then that's probably the route that I would take....just like how I wanted weed and couldn't get it legally...I still got it.

The problem is the cultural violence and disregard for human life, not the gun.

[Belsnickel]

(01-01-2016, 11:04 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: The problem is the cultural violence and disregard for human life, not the gun.

Eh, our intentional homicide rate isn't that bad. I mean, yeah, it's higher than our other developed western nations, but 121 out of 218 from the chart I found on Wikipedia ain't bad. Lower 50% and all.

[JustWinBaby]

(01-01-2016, 09:30 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: They can change hands a dozen times legally here with no records.

That is pretty dumb.  You can't sell a vehicle without registering the sale and transferring title.  Why should guns be any different?

You could even enforce a waiting period with delaying how quickly someone can get the paperwork to actually take possession of the gun.

Who would be responsible for a background check is another issue.

[mallorian69]

(01-02-2016, 12:20 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: That is pretty dumb.  You can't sell a vehicle without registering the sale and transferring title.  Why should guns be any different?

You could even enforce a waiting period with delaying how quickly someone can get the paperwork to actually take possession of the gun.

Who would be responsible for a background check is another issue.

Owning a gun is a right, owning a car is not, big difference. You don't have to have a background check to or license to practice free speech or religion do you?