Offensive observations

[Tiger Teeth]

(10-20-2016, 11:01 AM)treee Wrote: Watching the Bengals this year is an offensive observation.

I know I'm offended.

[fredtoast]

(10-20-2016, 12:36 AM)impactplaya Wrote: why doesn't Gio Bernard get to run the same routes as Leveon Bell does?

Not sure what you mean here.  I see Gio running downfield routes.

What routes does Bell run that Gio doesn't?

[lone bengal]

(10-20-2016, 04:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This never happened.


You mean to show how stupid some fans are?

Just looked it up. I messed it up. 1st down 9 yard pass to Green, 2nd down 11 yard run Bernard, 1st down-3 yard run Bernard, 2nd down pass incomplete to Lafell, 3rd down sack -9 yards , 4th down punt.  They ran it twice in row down two scores with 5 minutes left then huddled after both runs.  I understand they got the first down running the ball, but running it twice in a row down 2 scores is crazy.  Wasting clock and punting it their is giving up. It would have been 4th and a long shot but at least throw it up and see what happens.  Apologies for being a "stupid fan" When my teams down multiple scores with limited time left I expect them to at least try to win.  

[Sabretooth]

(10-20-2016, 03:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What does he have on Sports Illustrated that forced them to write a feature story about how well respected he is around the league?

What does he have on the guys at ProFootballFocus, Football Outsiders, and all the other sources that have ranked our O-line so high over the last few years. 

What does past respect around the league have to do with how this o line is performing ?
Bread used to cost 24 cents a loaf in the past but not now....


How highly is this o line ranked today?
This o line plays in 2016, the past is gone never to return.

[fredtoast]

(10-20-2016, 07:27 PM)Sabretooth Wrote: What does past respect around the league have to do with how this o line is performing ?
Bread used to cost 24 cents a loaf in the past but not now....


How highly is this o line ranked today?
This o line plays in 2016, the past is gone never to return.

What does this one season have to do with having a "lifetime contract"?  Why are you trying to act like you are just whining about this one season?

When was the last time an O-line coach got fired mid-season?

[Sabretooth]

(10-20-2016, 08:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What does this one season have to do with having a "lifetime contract"?  Why are you trying to act like you are just whining about this one season?

When was the last time an O-line coach got fired mid-season?

This is the season we are losing and our o line is struggling to pass protect and open up holes for the backs.

IDK when an o line coach got fired mid-season, but the ravens fired their offensive coordinator days ago ( in season ).

The past is a wonderful place ( I sometimes visit in my head ) , but I prefer living in the present.

[fredtoast]

(10-21-2016, 12:38 AM)Sabretooth Wrote: This is the season we are losing and our o line is struggling to pass protect and open up holes for the backs.

IDK when an o line coach got fired mid-season, but the ravens fired their offensive coordinator days ago ( in season ).

The past is a wonderful place ( I sometimes visit in my head ) , but I prefer living in the present.

That is the same shallow, simplistic logic that lead some people to think Niuck Foles was the best QB in the entire league.

"Just look at one season.  Nothing that ever happened before matters.  Derp"

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-20-2016, 07:27 PM)Sabretooth Wrote: What does past respect around the league have to do with how this o line is performing ?
Bread used to cost 24 cents a loaf in the past but not now....


How highly is this o line ranked today?
This o line plays in 2016, the past is gone never to return.

That article was written about the clinic PA attends, not him.....just throwing that out there for you.

[fredtoast]

(10-21-2016, 11:27 AM)Wyche Wrote: That article was written about the clinic PA attends, not him.....just throwing that out there for you.

Wrong again.  Here is as feature article all about Alexander.

http://www.si.com/vault/2016/02/11/lay-it-line

 Since 2007, when the stat was first kept, the Bengals rank first in PFF's pass-blocking-efficiency statistic ("a rating that reflects the most efficient pass blockers on a per-pass-blocking snap basis") at 84.1%. The league average is 79.5%. And Cincinnati has been remarkably consistent year to year, ranking outside the top six of that stat just once.

......


"Obviously, we do it a little differently in Cincy," says backup tackle Eric Winston, who has played for three other teams in 10 seasons. "And I think it works really well. It's hard to argue with the results."

......

"We always used to butt heads," says Hue Jackson, Cincinnati's offensive coordinator and former running backs coach. "When I was made coordinator [in 2014], we spent some time going over all the ways he taught things. Sitting there with him, it made me realize how good he was. How he teaches, the different props and tools he uses—it's different. But the results are outstanding."





BTW, Wyche, thanks for making me look this up because I actually found a second article that praises PA.  He was selected as the best O-line coach in the league.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/06/07/best-nfl-coaches-paul-alexander-bengals

 Alexander has been the Bengals’ offensive line coach since 1994, and added the title of Assistant Head Coach in 2003. He’s served under four different head coaches for the Bengals, and his lines have blocked for four different running backs with 1,000-yard seasons. Cincinnati’s line under Alexander has ranked among the top 10 in fewest sacks allowed totals in four of the last five NFL seasons,  and it set franchise records for low quarterback takedowns in two different seasons before that. Alexander has gotten the job done with his front five through multiple personnel shifts, injuries, coaching philosophies, and schematic shifts in the league. At this point, he should be talked about in the same breath as legendary line coaches like Howard Mudd and Alex Gibbs. 

[Housh]

lol heres Fredtoast again seeing what side people in the thread are taking and then arguing the opposite. Its like clockwork. No way he believes anything hes saying

[fredtoast]

(10-21-2016, 12:09 PM)Housh Wrote: lol heres Fredtoast again seeing what side people in the thread are taking and then arguing the opposite. Its like clockwork. No way he believes anything hes saying

Why would I NOT agree with the experts instead of a bunch of message board haters.

i am PROUD to say that I disagreed with the sheep here who swore that Justin Smith was garbage, that Leon Hall could not cover fast receivers, that Whitworth had trouble with speed rushers and should be moved to guard, that the Bengals would never go to back-to-back playoffs with Marvin as coach, that Dre Kirkpatrick was the 118th ranked CB, that Dalton's arm was too weak to throw the deep ball, that Maualuga was the worst LB in the league, that Peko was garbage, and so on and so on and so on.

[sonofstat]

(10-21-2016, 11:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Wrong again.  Here is as feature article all about Alexander.

http://www.si.com/vault/2016/02/11/lay-it-line

 Since 2007, when the stat was first kept, the Bengals rank first in PFF's pass-blocking-efficiency statistic ("a rating that reflects the most efficient pass blockers on a per-pass-blocking snap basis") at 84.1%. The league average is 79.5%. And Cincinnati has been remarkably consistent year to year, ranking outside the top six of that stat just once.

......


"Obviously, we do it a little differently in Cincy," says backup tackle Eric Winston, who has played for three other teams in 10 seasons. "And I think it works really well. It's hard to argue with the results."

......

"We always used to butt heads," says Hue Jackson, Cincinnati's offensive coordinator and former running backs coach. "When I was made coordinator [in 2014], we spent some time going over all the ways he taught things. Sitting there with him, it made me realize how good he was. How he teaches, the different props and tools he uses—it's different. But the results are outstanding."





BTW, Wyche, thanks for making me look this up because I actually found a second article that praises PA.  He was selected as the best O-line coach in the league.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/06/07/best-nfl-coaches-paul-alexander-bengals

 Alexander has been the Bengals’ offensive line coach since 1994, and added the title of Assistant Head Coach in 2003. He’s served under four different head coaches for the Bengals, and his lines have blocked for four different running backs with 1,000-yard seasons. Cincinnati’s line under Alexander has ranked among the top 10 in fewest sacks allowed totals in four of the last five NFL seasons,  and it set franchise records for low quarterback takedowns in two different seasons before that. Alexander has gotten the job done with his front five through multiple personnel shifts, injuries, coaching philosophies, and schematic shifts in the league. At this point, he should be talked about in the same breath as legendary line coaches like Howard Mudd and Alex Gibbs. 

That SI article is great, actually gives you some insight into how he operates...always felt Alexander likes to see himself as slightly different but did not realise that it permeated all the way through to how he actually coaches technique.

You have to keep faith with the guy and pray that his picks (and I personally still believe Og, Fisher, Bodine, Zeitler were very much driven by him) develop into the players he clearly thinks they can be.  

That said I'm really struggling to see why we have regressed so far since last year when that article was written?

I know Ced is really struggling but everyone else on the line is a carry over and yet the running game continues to be poor and now the pass protection -which as the article highlighted has previously been a big strength - has dropped off.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-21-2016, 12:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why would I NOT agree with the experts instead of a bunch of message board haters.

i am PROUD to say that I disagreed with the sheep here who swore that Justin Smith was garbage, that Leon Hall could not cover fast receivers, that Whitworth had trouble with speed rushers and should be moved to guard, that the Bengals would never go to back-to-back playoffs with Marvin as coach, that Dre Kirkpatrick was the 118th ranked CB, that Dalton's arm was too weak to throw the deep ball, that Maualuga was the worst LB in the league, that Peko was garbage, and so on and so on and so on.

You forgot Marvin will not win a playoff game as HC at Cincinnati 

[fredtoast]

(10-21-2016, 12:51 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: You forgot Marvin will not win a playoff game as HC at Cincinnati 

And that argument is not over yet.

[Sabretooth]

(10-21-2016, 10:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That is the same shallow, simplistic logic that lead some people to think Niuck Foles was the best QB in the entire league.

"Just look at one season.  Nothing that ever happened before matters.  Derp"

The feast you had last Thanksgiving or Christmas is not going to nourish you forever.

Ever hear the question " What have you done for me lately ? "

[3wt]

(10-21-2016, 11:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Wrong again.  Here is as feature article all about Alexander.

http://www.si.com/vault/2016/02/11/lay-it-line

 Since 2007, when the stat was first kept, the Bengals rank first in PFF's pass-blocking-efficiency statistic ("a rating that reflects the most efficient pass blockers on a per-pass-blocking snap basis") at 84.1%. The league average is 79.5%. And Cincinnati has been remarkably consistent year to year, ranking outside the top six of that stat just once.

......


"Obviously, we do it a little differently in Cincy," says backup tackle Eric Winston, who has played for three other teams in 10 seasons. "And I think it works really well. It's hard to argue with the results."

......

"We always used to butt heads," says Hue Jackson, Cincinnati's offensive coordinator and former running backs coach. "When I was made coordinator [in 2014], we spent some time going over all the ways he taught things. Sitting there with him, it made me realize how good he was. How he teaches, the different props and tools he uses—it's different. But the results are outstanding."





BTW, Wyche, thanks for making me look this up because I actually found a second article that praises PA.  He was selected as the best O-line coach in the league.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/06/07/best-nfl-coaches-paul-alexander-bengals

 Alexander has been the Bengals’ offensive line coach since 1994, and added the title of Assistant Head Coach in 2003. He’s served under four different head coaches for the Bengals, and his lines have blocked for four different running backs with 1,000-yard seasons. Cincinnati’s line under Alexander has ranked among the top 10 in fewest sacks allowed totals in four of the last five NFL seasons,  and it set franchise records for low quarterback takedowns in two different seasons before that. Alexander has gotten the job done with his front five through multiple personnel shifts, injuries, coaching philosophies, and schematic shifts in the league. At this point, he should be talked about in the same breath as legendary line coaches like Howard Mudd and Alex Gibbs. 

Got to hand it to you Fred, you put more facts behind your support of Alexander than I would have thought was available.  Interesting that Hue appears to have had issues with him but came around to his way of thinking.

As much as I've been down on the guy I stand humbled.  But I won't lie I feel queasy about it.

Rep

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-21-2016, 11:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Wrong again.  Here is as feature article all about Alexander.

http://www.si.com/vault/2016/02/11/lay-it-line

 Since 2007, when the stat was first kept, the Bengals rank first in PFF's pass-blocking-efficiency statistic ("a rating that reflects the most efficient pass blockers on a per-pass-blocking snap basis") at 84.1%. The league average is 79.5%. And Cincinnati has been remarkably consistent year to year, ranking outside the top six of that stat just once.

......


"Obviously, we do it a little differently in Cincy," says backup tackle Eric Winston, who has played for three other teams in 10 seasons. "And I think it works really well. It's hard to argue with the results."

......

"We always used to butt heads," says Hue Jackson, Cincinnati's offensive coordinator and former running backs coach. "When I was made coordinator [in 2014], we spent some time going over all the ways he taught things. Sitting there with him, it made me realize how good he was. How he teaches, the different props and tools he uses—it's different. But the results are outstanding."





BTW, Wyche, thanks for making me look this up because I actually found a second article that praises PA.  He was selected as the best O-line coach in the league.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/06/07/best-nfl-coaches-paul-alexander-bengals

 Alexander has been the Bengals’ offensive line coach since 1994, and added the title of Assistant Head Coach in 2003. He’s served under four different head coaches for the Bengals, and his lines have blocked for four different running backs with 1,000-yard seasons. Cincinnati’s line under Alexander has ranked among the top 10 in fewest sacks allowed totals in four of the last five NFL seasons,  and it set franchise records for low quarterback takedowns in two different seasons before that. Alexander has gotten the job done with his front five through multiple personnel shifts, injuries, coaching philosophies, and schematic shifts in the league. At this point, he should be talked about in the same breath as legendary line coaches like Howard Mudd and Alex Gibbs. 

I had not seen that one....the last time you said this ( on the mothership ) it was the article about the COOL Clinic.....which mentioned him in a couple of paragraphs.  You held that up as a "feature article". My mistake.  So I guess he got the SI jynx this year?  Will there be a feature now that all of those stats are reversed and we're 2-4?

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/07/24/nfl-offensive-line-coaches-cool-clinic 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-21-2016, 09:00 PM)3wt Wrote: Got to hand it to you Fred, you put more facts behind your support of Alexander than I would have thought was available.  Interesting that Hue appears to have had issues with him but came around to his way of thinking.

As much as I've been down on the guy I stand humbled.  But I won't lie I feel queasy about it.

Rep

Meh.....I still think he's overrated.  The scheme and the quick release have masked his unit's shortcomings since the 2010 debacle until this year.  Plus I look at his hand picked players failing miserably....and wonder if he has gotten stale.  Also....take note of the part where it talks about all of the high round talent the FO has provided him.  A couple of those 1000 yard rushers came behind quite a bit of unbalanced sets.....BJGE...Benson...and Hill in 14 because we couldn't get any push.  We were doing that in Pop Warner......just waiting on SI to do an article on my coach.

[fredtoast]

(10-22-2016, 06:02 AM)Wyche Wrote:  Plus I look at his hand picked players failing miserably.

Except for Fisher and Ogbuehi PA has never had a single high draft pick fail.  And it may be too early to judge those two.

Look around the league at how many O-linemen in the top three rounds flop.  That is one reason PA is so well respected.

[fredtoast]

(10-22-2016, 06:02 AM)Wyche Wrote:  A couple of those 1000 yard rushers came behind quite a bit of unbalanced sets.....BJGE...Benson

And 4 of the six O-linemen in that '09 O-line were undrafted free agents with no starting experience.