Ogbuehi plugged back in as starter

[Housh]

So are we tanking or nah

Seems like a good year to tank

[ah5]

Give the guy a break... most lineman even top 5 picks normally suck their rookie year. And this is his rookie year.

[Joelist]

I'd still bench the entire right side of the line for at least 1 or 2 games (but not telling them how long it will be) to drive home the point that no one is entitled to their place on the field. But that would mean Marvin would actually have to be less of a "player's coach" and more one that expects and demands the best at all times - which is what the team needs.

[sonofstat]

(10-17-2016, 07:36 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: http://www.cincinnati.com/wlna/sports/nfl/bengals/2016/10/17/cedric-ogbuehi-plugs-back-starter/92314466/

Apparently Marv is content to flush the season down the tubes for the sake of developing one player.

Through the first 5 games, Ogbuehi allowed 22 pressures (according to PFF). More than the rest of the line combined.

I'm sure that didn't improve any against the Pats.

This situation with Ced Og is a real test of Lewis, Zamp and Alexander...not only in terms of coaching but also man management.

Do you go with what you see on the field and bench him , to protect Dalton?

Do you take the 'get back on the bike' approach and try and support him figuring out and just accept it could get real bad before it gets better??

Depends on the attitude of the player, some players might actually benefit from being pulled and being out of the spotlight for a bit. Others would be demanding to stay in.

Without knowing Ced as a character its tough....I think I err (just!) on the side of keeping him in this week,  as Cleveland at home is as good as it gets for us on the schedule.  Plus I'm sick of not really knowing what we have with some of these rookies/recent draftees...

[fredtoast]

(10-18-2016, 04:27 AM)Joelist Wrote: I'd still bench the entire right side of the line for at least 1 or 2 games (but not telling them how long it will be) to drive home the point that no one is entitled to their place on the field. But that would mean Marvin would actually have to be less of a "player's coach" and more one that expects and demands the best at all times - which is what the team needs.

You still don't get it.  If you bench a player in order to play a lesser player then you are just hurting the team.  You don't prove any point except that you are a stupid coach.

How do you think the QB and RBs are going to react to having to play behind worse players?

When a player is not performing then the coach has to work hard to make him better.  Just playing worse players does not help with that.  Like I said before I doubt these guys are just playing poorly because they want to play poorly.

That is like a parent telling a child who does not understand his math homework. "I am going to punish you until you understand it." in order to prove the point that not understanding math will not be tolerated.  Instead the parent has to help the child work through the problem.

[Benton]

(10-18-2016, 12:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You don't accomplish anything by benching players when their back ups are not as good.

Winston looked better than Og. We don't know about some of the others because they've been busy standing on the sideline watching Og watch the game.

(10-18-2016, 10:10 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Zimmer was not here in '07 when inserting Dhani into the starting lineup had such a dramatic effect.

First 8 games of '07 without Dhani starting.....397.1 yards per game allowed.  Not just dead last, but on pace to be one ot the worst defenses in the last decade.

Last 8 games with Dhani starting......300.4 yards per game.  Would have ranked #6 in the league over the full season.


If Dhani was so lame then why did the great Mike Zimmer not replace him?

Because there wasn't a backup as good.



Seriously though, that doesn't mean Dhani was any good, just that we had less than that behind him.

Dhani was an average player. At that point, we really needed average. Average was better than our LB corps under Marvin, average was phenomenal compared to the players Marvin had been developing. Average was steller enough to, as you've pointed out, go from being one of the worst defenses to one the top five worst defenses.

It took Mike a few years to build up the cast of characters that gave us a good defense.  We didn't just turn around suddenly because of Dhani.

(10-18-2016, 10:18 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That is like a parent telling a child who does not understand his math homework. "I am going to punish you until you understand it." in order to prove the point that not understanding math will not be tolerated.  Instead the parent has to help the child work through the problem.
 

Yup. Agreed. Where I disagree is the environment in which the parent helps the child. If your kid is struggling in math, you don't send them up in the space shuttle and tell them to work out the algebra to get home.

If Og needs remedial level help — and his play on the field so far has been about that level — then get him help. Bring in an outside coach. Hire some guys to follow him around and jump out when he least expects it, forcing him to work on his hands if he wants to keep his Quizno's sub. Give him a clipboard and let him sit on the bench and watch a tackle play, let him understand the game at this level.

But don't treat this as a rebuilding year. Don't treat it as "well, let's get the bench some experience and we'll have a plan for next year."

[fredtoast]

(10-18-2016, 12:27 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Dhani had 3.5 sacks 1 forced fumble and 4 pass defended. 17th in the league in tackles by a LB isn't even that great. Its below average tbh.... I think we need to have a sound bite when you post. I vote for the song "You spin me round" to play.

Doesn't change the fact that that was an elite defense and no other players were producing that much more than Dhani.

[Benton]

On topic please.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Sure would of thought we would want to wait a few days before just giving him the job back.

Don't know if this helped or not. It was a good thing to bench Og with how he has played.

This kind of takes the effectiveness away from benching him in the first place.

[Joelist]

(10-18-2016, 04:08 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sure would of thought we would want to wait a few days before just giving him the job back.

Don't know if this helped or not. It was a good thing to bench Og with how he has played.

This kind of takes the effectiveness away from benching him in the first place.

That was my point about benching the entire right side of the line. Benching players based on poor performance has been a staple of NFL coaching since the early days of the league, and even HOF players have endured it and learned from it. To just hand poor performers the job is the same as telling them that there is no accountability. 

Then again, we keep non-performing coaches too.... :)

[Millhouse]

and Bengals opponents to come rejoice...

[JumboTron]

From my viewpoint, this is tough. Ced has been thoroughly out-manned all year so far, but the question is do you let the young man get through his "growing pains" of being a starting tackle in the NFL? Or bench him and maybe further impede his development/confidence?

I don't disagree with the people wanting the guy benched, I mean his play speaks for itself so far. But the flip side is he is still young and inexperienced and maybe sticking with him a little longer will result in him being a more productive OL. The tackle position (be it RT and obvs. LT) is one of those "learn on the job" types and most young guys struggle when having to face edge pass rushers at full game speed series after series, week after week. Perhaps Ced just needs more game action.

Of course the alternative may also be 100% true in that maybe he just isn't that good. My point being, I think it is a bit early to write him off. But obviously he needs to show VAST improvement and very, very soon at that. I would put him back as the starter and just see if he is making ANY improvement that could point to him being a viable NFL level starting tackle. Just my opinion.

[Shake n Blake]

Fair enough points JumboTron, and I agree it's a tough choice. I'm just not sure how much longer a leash he should be afforded. This is a team that came in with SB aspirations and now they're sitting at 2-4. If you had to point out one player who was the worst on this team during that stretch, it'd be Ced.

We are facing the Browns this week, so hopefully the kid can gain some steam and confidence. If not, we should probably pull the plug until we're out contention at least.