Can we talk Joe Burrow?

[Au165]

While I'm at it one other thing. The reality is people don't like to believe that a guy could come out of nowhere and be that great that quick. I just got done mentioning Mahomes but people forget this guy came out of nowhere. His college tape was not that good to think he'd be who he is today. His first year starting each game people kept saying, no way he can keep this up. Then you turn around and realize, oh crap he is that good. Then this year people kept saying no way Jackson can keep this up, then you turn around and realize oh crap he is that good.

We have seen nothing but these guys kind of come out of nowhere (Although I was high on Lamar coming out), the last couple years and the tape with Burrows makes you think he could do that again. I am telling you, if you understand football concepts and reading defenses watch the tape. The guy is simply fantastic in making reads and putting the ball where it needs to be. Ball trajectory is one of the most underrated attributes of a QB and Burrow is one of the best I have seen since I started really breaking prospects down the last 5 or 6 years.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-30-2019, 10:31 AM)Au165 Wrote: As I keep telling people, "Arm Talent" is overrated. You know who had "Arm Talent"? Jamarcus Russell, Brock Osweiller, Paxton Lynch, Ryan Mallet, all had TONS of arm talent, you know what that means? Absolutely nothing. Being able to throw the ball really hard, is less important than trajectory and placement. There is a minimum threshold for throwing power in the NFL, and he is easily above it, after that it's nice sure but really doesn't make a big difference.

The problem is people have fallen in love with Mahomes and so every QB now has to be able to throw 70 yards across his body falling backwards. That not only isn't common, it's not really good either. Mahomes gets himself in trouble at times being over confident in his arm but they have a great coaching setup there that reigns him in enough to make hit work. More often then not the guys with Cannons are like Josh Allen who lack any sort of touch and throw fast balls on a drag and it shoots through a guys hands or sails high.

If anything his ability to throw on the move laterally with out much lower body drive should make people feel better. Throws are made from the ground up. The drive off your drop back foot is what generates most the power outside of guys like Rodgers and Mahomes who can muscle it. If he actually got to throw in rhythm with drive more often I'd bet his "Arm Talent" would look a lot better, but considering a lot of his big throws are while moving, requiring him to square his shoulders with his lower body out of phase tells me he is perfectly fine arm strength wise.

I completely agree. A QB doesn't need to be able to throw 50+ yards downfield, at least not often.
And Burrow has shown to be rather accurate on deep balls, and it's not just "jump balls" on those deep throws.
I've seen his drop it right in the "bread basket" of his receiver in stride, most recent example being Jefferson in Saturday's game.

My most important traits in a franchise QB:
- Accuracy! (Fulton Reed didn't become a good hockey player until he learned to shoot the puck into the net regardless of how hard his slap shot was)
- Ball placement
- Touch (I still have horrific memories of Palmer rocketing a pass into a receiver's hands when they are just 5 yards away. No need for that)
- Pocket presence
- Ability to extend the play

[Hammerstripes]

Let's pump the brakes a little on the whole "he came out of nowhere" stuff.

He was actually pretty good toward the end of last year in LSU's archaic offense. Just look at the last few games and the bowl game against a highly motivated Central Florida team (I realize it was central florida, but they weren't just mailing it in, they had a chip on their shoulder and had something to prove)

People also tend to forget that Burrow didn't get to spend a whole lot of time with the team after his transfer. He was telling a story about how he had to keep asking people's names. He didn't have a ton of time to get up to speed.

[ElkValleyBengal]

I agree that arm strength (like everything else) can be overrated.  There are scenarios, however,  when it is invaluable.  If you're forced to throw an out pattern off your back foot in the face of an oncoming blitze on third down, intangibles are meaningless.  Also consider it's much easier to be accurate if you don't have to put your all into a throw.  A guy who can heave it 70 yards can put less effort into a 50 yard throw than a guy who can heave it 60 yards.

This isn't a commentary on Burrow by the way, but just an observation. I think many fans have actually come to undervalue arm strength. It certainly isn't enough to make a good QB on its own, but it can make an otherwise good QB great.

[*bfine32*]

I just want him to come here and excel at adding to the game with his feet. That way I can call him Wheel Burrow

[fortyyearfan]

(12-25-2019, 03:23 PM)hollodero Wrote: --- -I am far from being any kind of expert in pretty much anything related to football - especially when it comes to evaluating draft prospects. I do not watch College football at all.

So I'd like to hear what the experts think about Joe Burrow becoming a Bengal.

The thing that struck me, and my "knowledge" only stems from a few highlight videos, is how he seems to have a lot of time and a lot of space in most of those big plays featured. He stands there in the pocket for several seconds, still has all the options to wait even longer or step up or roll out. Now when I think about NFL defenders and the Bengals line, I very much doubt that what he sees in the NFL even closely resembles that kind of possibilities. I for one am afraid that Burrow's greatest moments are to a large extent a product of great OLine play and that this won't really work out too well behind the current Bengals line.

Which is why I'd be for trading down, but never mind that. I just wonder if folks see it similarly or completely different than me. What are everyone's thoughts on Joe Burrow?

 Well said and my thoughts exactly,trade trade trade down and get more picks, there will be a ton of teams willing to offer you the moon and word has it that Bill B of the pats is high on Joe B and will come calling to Mikey boy as they are good friends and Mikey will be willing to trade down as Bill B. will offer his 1st and second rounder and a second next draft and mikey will jump for it as he should.We can get a very very good qb in the late first and we need more draft picks.Joe B. is not the only top qb in this draft and we are in a super position to pick up much needed draft picks this year.Tom B. will probably only play one more season and Joe B.would love to go the pats.,and not here in the Nati.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-02-2020, 05:18 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote:  Well said and my thoughts exactly,trade trade trade down and get more picks, there will be a ton of teams willing to offer you the moon and word has it that Bill B of the pats is high on Joe B and will come calling to Mikey boy as they are good friends and Mikey will be willing to trade down as Bill B. will offer his 1st and second rounder and a second next draft and mikey will jump for it as he should.We can get a very very good qb in the late first and we need more draft picks.Joe B. is not the only top qb in this draft and we are in a super position to pick up much needed draft picks this year.Tom B. will probably only play one more season and Joe B.would love to go the pats.,and not here in the Nati.

You guys need to watch the games rather than the highlights.  The throws he makes under pressure and the quick decision making are top level.  He is also the most accurate passer I have ever seen on the college level. 

[Hammerstripes]

(01-02-2020, 05:18 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote:  Well said and my thoughts exactly,trade trade trade down and get more picks, there will be a ton of teams willing to offer you the moon and word has it that Bill B of the pats is high on Joe B and will come calling to Mikey boy as they are good friends and Mikey will be willing to trade down as Bill B. will offer his 1st and second rounder and a second next draft and mikey will jump for it as he should.We can get a very very good qb in the late first and we need more draft picks.Joe B. is not the only top qb in this draft and we are in a super position to pick up much needed draft picks this year.Tom B. will probably only play one more season and Joe B.would love to go the pats.,and not here in the Nati.

There's no way in hell I'm trading the #1 overall pick for a bunch of low first rounders. 

[Quantum Bengal]

(12-28-2019, 09:46 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I dont know how you can argue chase young over burrow. Chase young does not change the bengals the way a franchise qb would.

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[hollodero]

(01-03-2020, 03:07 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: You guys need to watch the games rather than the highlights.  The throws he makes under pressure and the quick decision making are top level.  He is also the most accurate passer I have ever seen on the college level. 

Nah, I let others watch the games and take over their opinions. Makes me non-committal.
Your name, however, is on the line. If Burrow does not work out, I will say oh Hammerstripes, you had no clue. If he does, I will say I was smart for knowing what folks to trust, clever me.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-04-2020, 06:23 AM)hollodero Wrote: Nah, I let others watch the games and take over their opinions. Makes me non-committal.
Your name, however, is on the line. If Burrow does not work out, I will say oh Hammerstripes, you had no clue. If he does, I will say I was smart for knowing what folks to trust, clever me.

I'm not saying that he will pan out either.

What I am saying is watch the games.  He makes a ton of throws under pressure.  Look at the Alabama, Auburn, Florida and Georgia games and tell me what you think.  I actually threw out the OU game because it was such a pathetic defensive performance loaded with no pressure and broken coverage.

I was sold on him after watching him play the 4 defenses on his schedule loaded with NFL talent.