Open-Minded Liberals at it again

[*bfine32*]

(03-15-2017, 12:40 PM)Dill Wrote: But to answer your question, no, I don't think "one race is genetically different to another," though some groups which have lived in geographic proximity to one another for thousands of years may share some traits.  

Could one of those traits be lower IQ?

As to the rest: I would say marrying outside of you white race is a pretty good indicator that you are not racist or a white supremacist, but you think he is because he points to a common trait in races. BTW, have you ever heard of generics refereed to as Trait Inheritance?

[Benton]

(03-13-2017, 04:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course Murray chose to marry outside of his white race, so there is very little, if any similarity in the two issues. But nothing wrong with comparing as many people as you can to Hitler I suppose.

http://www.aei.org/publication/where-are-the-female-einsteins/

He also thinks women can't do math. Their lack of smart people awards (given historically by men) and their lack of being hunter-gatherers proves this. And since it's obvious, we should just accept it and move on.

Ergo, Murray likes dudes.

[BmorePat87]

(03-15-2017, 12:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Could one of those traits be lower IQ?

As to the rest: I would say marrying outside of you white race is a pretty good indicator that you are not racist or a white supremacist

I think it definitely would disqualify you from being a white supremacist, but not a racist. Racism can be limited to only certain groups. A pretty common position amongst White Nationalists is that Asians are smarter than white people. They're nationalists, so they want to promote their own group and created a white nation, but they are not all white supremacists.  The marrying part could be used to make a case against the claim that he is a White Nationalists, but it doesn't dismiss his alleged views that black people are less intelligent. 

[Dill]

(03-15-2017, 01:43 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I think it definitely would disqualify you from being a white supremacist, but not a racist. Racism can be limited to only certain groups. A pretty common position amongst White Nationalists is that Asians are smarter than white people. They're nationalists, so they want to promote their own group and created a white nation, but they are not all white supremacists.  The marrying part could be used to make a case against the claim that he is a White Nationalists, but it doesn't dismiss his alleged views that black people are less intelligent. 

Alleged??

http://www.intelltheory.com/bellcurve.shtml#part1
Ethnic Differences in Cognitive Ability - East Asians typically earn higher IQ scores than white Americans, especially in the verbal intelligence areas. African-Americans typically earn IQ scores one full standard deviation below those of white Americans. The IQ difference between African-Americans and whites remains at all levels of socioeconomic status (SES), and is even more pronounced at higher levels of SES. Recent narrowing of the average IQ gap between black and white Americans (about 3 IQ points) is attributed to a lessening of low black scores and not an overall improvement in black scores on average. The debate over genes versus environment influences on the race IQ gap is acknowledged. 

[*]The Demography of Intelligence - Mounting evidence indicates that demographic trends are exerting downward pressure on the distribution of cognitive ability in the United States and that the pressures are strong enough to have social consequences. Birth rates among highly educated women are falling faster than those of low IQ women. The IQ of the average immigrant of today is 95, lower than the national average, but more importantly the new immigrants are less brave, less hard working, less imaginative, and less self-starting than many of the immigrant groups of the past. 

[*]Social Behavior and the Prevalence of Low Cognitive Ability - For most of the worst social problems of our time, the people who have the problem are heavily concentrated in the lower portion of the cognitive ability spectrum. Solutions designed to solve or mitigate any of these problems must accommodate, even be focused towards, the low cognitive ability profile if they are to have any hope of succeeding.

[*bfine32*]

(03-15-2017, 01:43 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I think it definitely would disqualify you from being a white supremacist, but not a racist. Racism can be limited to only certain groups. A pretty common position amongst White Nationalists is that Asians are smarter than white people. They're nationalists, so they want to promote their own group and created a white nation, but they are not all white supremacists.  The marrying part could be used to make a case against the claim that he is a White Nationalists, but it doesn't dismiss his alleged views that black people are less intelligent. 

I would suggest that him thinking another race is superior to his would not make him a racist; at least not in the "my race is superior to others" vein. 

Perhaps we should fully understand each other's classification of racist: If I say "black players are better NFL cornerbacks than white players"; am I being racist? 

[*bfine32*]

(03-15-2017, 01:40 PM)Benton Wrote: http://www.aei.org/publication/where-are-the-female-einsteins/

He also thinks women can't do math. Their lack of smart people awards (given historically by men) and their lack of being hunter-gatherers proves this. And since it's obvious, we should just accept it and move on.

Ergo, Murray likes dudes.

Why talk about intractable differences between men and women, or between any other groups of people, when these topics are so painful and divisive? Because the refusal to confront the reality of differences has consequences, and the only way to understand those consequences is to explore them openly. No one need change his or her politics–the policy implications of group differences cut both ways politically. But we do need to talk. Let us stop being afraid of data that tell us a story we do not want to hear, stop the name-calling, stop the denial and start facing reality.

[*michaelsean*]

(03-15-2017, 05:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I would suggest that him thinking another race is superior to his would not make him a racist; at least not in the "my race is superior to others" vein. 

Perhaps we should fully understand each other's classification of racist: If I say "black players are better NFL cornerbacks than white players"; am I being racist? 

Jason Sehorn thinks you are. 

[BmorePat87]

(03-15-2017, 05:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I would suggest that him thinking another race is superior to his would not make him a racist; at least not in the "my race is superior to others" vein. 

Perhaps we should fully understand each other's classification of racist: If I say "black players are better NFL cornerbacks than white players"; am I being racist? 

There are a ton of definitions that are used.

-discriminatory/prejudicial views of a group
-the belief that one is inferior or superior to the other
-the belief that your race determines your worth or ability

It could just be semantics, but since I saw you two throwing around a number of different terms that are related to this particular topic (racist, white nationalist, white supremacist), I decided to chime in with a background in sociology. In more common usage, I get your position, but I am just saying that racism doesn't mean the same as "(insert race here) supremacy". 

[BmorePat87]

(03-15-2017, 03:26 PM)Dill Wrote: Alleged??

I don't know this guy or his work, so I use alleged. 

I'm not trying to pass judgement on anyone, just give me 2 cents when it comes to these terms I saw being used.

[*bfine32*]

(03-15-2017, 11:00 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: There are a ton of definitions that are used.

-discriminatory/prejudicial views of a group
-the belief that one is inferior or superior to the other
-the belief that your race determines your worth or ability

It could just be semantics, but since I saw you two throwing around a number of different terms that are related to this particular topic (racist, white nationalist, white supremacist), I decided to chime in with a background in sociology. In more common usage, I get your position, but I am just saying that racism doesn't mean the same as "(insert race here) supremacy". 

But we didn't get your stance. 

Is it racist to say Black players make better NFL Cornerbacks than White players? 

[Dill]

(03-15-2017, 05:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why talk about intractable differences between men and women, or between any other groups of people, when these topics are so painful and divisive? Because the refusal to confront the reality of differences has consequences, and the only way to understand those consequences is to explore them openly. No one need change his or her politics–the policy implications of group differences cut both ways politically. But we do need to talk. Let us stop being afraid of data that tell us a story we do not want to hear, stop the name-calling, stop the denial and start facing reality.

Murray, is that you? lol Being "honest" about the other race.

[*bfine32*]

(03-16-2017, 12:40 AM)Dill Wrote: Murray, is that you? lol Being "honest" about the other race.

Actually it is a quote by Murray.

I did notice you failed to respond to the post that asked such questions as:


Could one of those passed down traits be lower IQ?


What is the difference between passed down traits and genetics?

[Dill]

(03-15-2017, 12:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Could one of those traits be lower IQ?

As to the rest: I would say marrying outside of you white race is a pretty good indicator that you are not racist or a white supremacist, but you think he is because he points to a common trait in races. BTW, have you ever heard of generics refereed to as Trait Inheritance?

If Charles Murray is measuring, then the answer is "yes".

Pat called it. If you think Asians are ok and marriageable, you might not be a white supremacist, though you still might be if you want an all white nation after your divorce.

That you think Asians are smarter an marriageable does not mean you can't be "racist", especially if you think blacks are dumber and social/political policy should take that into account.

[*bfine32*]

(03-16-2017, 01:15 AM)Dill Wrote: If Charles Murray is measuring, then the answer is "yes".

Nobody asked if Murray was measuring. I asked you if lower IQ could be one if those traits

[Dill]

(03-16-2017, 12:57 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Actually it is a quote by Murray.

I did notice you failed to respond to the post that asked such questions as:


Could one of those passed down traits be lower IQ?


What is the difference between passed down traits and genetics?

Yes, I recognize Murray's argument. He is the Mike Pence of Eugenics.

And I just responded to your post.

Last time I checked, genetics was a branch of biology which studied genes and their characteristics. A heritable trait would be something like eye color, not a branch of biology, though genetics might explain how a parents with blue eyes might nevertheless have a child with brown eyes.

[Dill]

(03-16-2017, 01:18 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Nobody asked if Murray was measuring. I asked you if lower IQ could be one if those traits

Who is measuring then? What are the metrics?  

Have you ever heard of "race suicide"? A lot of worry about that in some circles.

It is related to genetics and the heritability of traits.

[*bfine32*]

(03-16-2017, 02:13 AM)Dill Wrote: Who is measuring then? What are the metrics?  

Have you ever heard of "race suicide"?  A lot of worry about that in some circles.

It is related to genetics and the heritability of traits.

Asking additional questions doesn't really answer a question posed. Mr. "It's not genetics, it's an inherited trait".

Can a lower IQ be one of those inherited (not genetic apparently) traits?

[BmorePat87]

(03-16-2017, 12:21 AM)bfine32 Wrote: But we didn't get your stance. 

Is it racist to say Black players make better NFL Cornerbacks than White players? 

Yes. The same goes with saying that black physicists are better than white physicists. 

[*bfine32*]

(03-16-2017, 10:38 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yes. The same goes with saying that black physicists are better than white physicists. 

Got it. So sometimes we must ignore facts if they appear racist. Or list for me all the white All Pro CBs in the last 20 years.

[GMDino]

(03-16-2017, 10:58 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Got it. So sometimes we must ignore facts if they appear racist. Or list for me all the white All Pro CBs in the last 20 years.

Can't remember one in the last 5 years or so that even played the position.

Do find that to be racism?