Peaceful Berkley Protests Ruined By Antifa

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-28-2017, 06:25 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Im not saying what they did was legal. 

But when you are out being an asshole... Shit happens. 

You can be perfectly legal sitting in a bar drinking and decide you want to call someones girl a fat ugly skank. When you get punched in the mouth i will have no pity.

Again, you're not getting it.  Expressing your political opinion , however repugnant it is, is not analogous to being deliberately obnoxious at a bar.  Don't try and justify or excuse violent responses to political opinions or speech.

[Vlad]

(08-28-2017, 12:07 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: With a false statement, at that. The racist gathering was broken up and declared unlawful hours before he drove that car into the group. He is disseminating fake news.

Um..I used the word "appears", and was only going by what I saw on that video. Regardless of the sequence of events, it's irrelevant to my main point of alt right planning violent acts.

[Belsnickel]

(08-28-2017, 06:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Again, you're not getting it.  Expressing your political opinion , however repugnant it is, is not analogous to being deliberately obnoxious at a bar.  Don't try and justify or excuse violent responses to political opinions or speech.

I disagree. Both are expressing your opinion. I don't think the response to either should be violence, but I don't see a difference in the basic principle.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-28-2017, 06:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I disagree. Both are expressing your opinion. I don't think the response to either should be violence, but I don't see a difference in the basic principle.

It's not complicated.  When violence is used against political speech it has a far broader intent and meaning then punching a dude at a bar who makes a disparaging comment about your girlfriend.  Violence in response to political speech, especially when done publicly and deliberately, (which is pretty much always is) has an intended chilling effect against expressing view points that dissent from the violent actor.  You could not be more wrong on this.

[Vlad]

(08-28-2017, 07:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's not complicated.  When violence is used against political speech it has a far broader intent and meaning then punching a dude at a bar who makes a disparaging comment about your girlfriend.  Violence in response to political speech, especially when done publicly and deliberately, (which is pretty much always is) has an intended chilling effect against expressing view points that dissent from the violent actor.  You could not be more wrong on this.

Wow, it's 8:57 and no one has played their "you're defending white supremacy" card.

[GMDino]

(08-28-2017, 10:02 PM)Vlad Wrote: Wow, it's 8:57 and no one has played their "you're defending white supremacy" card.

Haven't we been told to just let the hate speech go and not say anything and people will ignore it? 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-28-2017, 10:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: Haven't we been told to just let the hate speech go and not say anything and people will ignore it? 

If you view my post as hate speech you're more clueless than I ever thought possible.  Which is saying something.

[GMDino]

(08-28-2017, 11:53 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If you view my post as hate speech you're more clueless than I ever thought possible.  Which is saying something.

[StLucieBengal]

The overuse of Nazi on this board is getting to ridiculous levels. It's not quite to the level of calling everyone a racist/sexist/etc that plenty get into the habit when they can not come with anything to continue a debate or discussion.

There isn't any Nazi's here posting: The more you use that label to describe just good decent normal posters or their political leanings the more you take away from the true meaning of that word.

Nazi should be taken seriously but it won't be when you call everyone a Nazi who has a conservative or even moderate view on common sense issues.

I am certain this will be reported in hopes I am suspended. Which would be a Nazi type move to get rid of anyone who doesn't think like you.

[Vlad]

(08-28-2017, 10:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: Haven't we been told to just let the hate speech go and not say anything and people will ignore it? 

  I'll seriously take your into account after that one.

[GMDino]

(08-29-2017, 10:45 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The overuse of Nazi on this board is getting to ridiculous levels.  It's not quite to the level of calling everyone a racist/sexist/etc that plenty get into the habit when they can not come with anything to continue a debate or discussion.  

There isn't any Nazi's here posting:   The more you use that label to describe just good decent normal posters or their political leanings the more you take away from the true meaning of that word.  

Nazi should be taken seriously but it won't be when you call everyone a Nazi who has a conservative or even moderate view on common sense issues.    

I am certain this will be reported in hopes I am suspended.   Which would be a Nazi type move to get rid of anyone who doesn't think like you.

Would White nationalist be better?  Alt-right? 

What would be the acceptable term for people who post something racist?

I get a little exhausted when all protesters are lumped in as "leftists" or antifa.  

[StLucieBengal]

(08-29-2017, 11:07 AM)GMDino Wrote: Would White nationalist be better?  Alt-right? 

What would be the acceptable term for people who post something racist?

I get a little exhausted when all protesters are lumped in as "leftists" or antifa.  

The protesters we discuss here are antifa and leftists.

Classic liberals are not out there protesting. They are trying to move forward like the rest of us and see what can be done for the country under Trump. Like conservatives did when obama was elected.

As for calling anyone on the board who disagrees with your point of view a Nazi/white supremacist or a sympathizer. That's on you or whoever else decides to use that language to attempt to shame people. All you guys are doing is Lessing the meaning much like you all did to racist/sexist/homophobe/islamaphobe. Now when anyone see that on the board they just laugh because they have been made out to mean nothing.

[*PhilHos*]

(08-29-2017, 11:07 AM)GMDino Wrote: Would White nationalist be better?  Alt-right? 

What would be the acceptable term for people who post something racist?

I get a little exhausted when all protesters are lumped in as "leftists" or antifa.  

Or, you know, don't call them anything and just discuss the content of their posts.

[GMDino]

(08-29-2017, 11:15 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: The protesters we discuss here are antifa and leftists.  [/quote}

So I take it there are no "good people" on the left protesting...but there ARE good people on the right protesting?  

[quote='StLucieBengal' pid='417073' dateline='1504016105']Classic liberals are not out there protesting.   They are trying to move forward like the rest of us and see what can be done for the country under Trump.    Like conservatives did when obama was elected.

Than who were all the protesters on the right during the Obama admin?

(08-29-2017, 11:15 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: As for calling anyone on the board who disagrees with your point of view a Nazi/white supremacist or a sympathizer.     That's on you or whoever else decides to use that language to attempt to shame people.   All you guys are doing is Lessing the meaning much like you all did to racist/sexist/homophobe/islamaphobe.    Now when anyone see that on the board they just laugh because they have been made out to mean nothing.

I don't think that is what is happening. I think when a racist comment is made it is highlighted as racist. It's not shaming if they weren't ashamed to say it in the first place.

Just because racist people don't want to admit it doesn't mean it isn't true. Or sexist. Or homophobes. Or Islamaphobes.

[GMDino]

(08-29-2017, 11:33 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Or, you know, don't call them anything and just discuss the content of their posts.

Well that's what I personally have done.  But I was responding to Lucie's suggestion that calling someone a racist that said a racist thing is wrong.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-29-2017, 11:36 AM)GMDino Wrote: Than who were all the protesters on the right during the Obama admin?

Many groups I'm sure.  I don't remember a lot of violence at those protests though.  Do you?

Quote:I don't think that is what is happening.  I think when a racist comment is made it is highlighted as racist.  It's not shaming if they weren't ashamed to say it in the first place.

Just because racist people don't want to admit it doesn't mean it isn't true.  Or sexist.  Or homophobes.  Or Islamaphobes.

Speaking of "islamaphobes", an interesting point.  We're told that the around 10% of muslims who identify as radical aren't representative of islam, yet the less than .01% of Americans who identify as nazis, they are apparently a huge problem and are representative of conservative politics.  Odd.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-29-2017, 11:36 AM)GMDino Wrote: Than who were all the protesters on the right during the Obama admin?


I don't think that is what is happening. I think when a racist comment is made it is highlighted as racist. It's not shaming if they weren't ashamed to say it in the first place.

Just because racist people don't want to admit it doesn't mean it isn't true. Or sexist. Or homophobes. Or Islamaphobes.

Was the tea party being violent during obama's presidency?

No it happens here..... the minute someone gets frustrated you aren't on their side they flip to calling you a Nazi, nazi sympathizer, racist, homophobe, etc

1. Defending these free speech rallies = Nazi/ nazi sympathizer

2. Wanting a strong border policy = racist

3. Do not want men in the women's bathroom with my daughters = homophobe/transphobe

4. Encouraging Muslims to have a reformation to push out extremists = islamaphobe.

5. We are science deniers when it comes to climate change but are told to ignore science on the transgender issue.

[GMDino]

(08-29-2017, 11:42 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Many groups I'm sure.  I don't remember a lot of violence at those protests though.  Do you?

No I don't. But what do we call them was the question.

(08-29-2017, 11:42 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Speaking of "islamaphobes", an interesting point.  We're told that the around 10% of muslims who identify as radical aren't representative of islam, yet the less than .01% of Americans who identify as nazis, they are apparently a huge problem and are representative of conservative politics.  Odd.

Again, I think Nazis are conservative...not conservatives are Nazis.

Seems like an easy distinction.

I'm a white, male liberal...not all liberals are white males.

And also...can't we care about both groups? Radical Islamists and Nazis?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(08-29-2017, 11:48 AM)GMDino Wrote: No I don't.  But what do we call them was the question.

They were disparate groups.  I think the most common label was tea party.

Quote:Again, I think Nazis are conservative...not conservatives are Nazis.

Seems like an easy distinction.

I'm a white, male liberal...not all liberals are white males.

I'd like to see more of this kind of discerning opinion from you.

Quote:And also...can't we care about both groups? Radical Islamists and Nazis?

Apparently not.  Maybe the far left can start condemning both instead of inviting islamic terrorists, or their sympathizers, to speak at their gathering

[GMDino]

(08-29-2017, 11:51 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'd like to see more of this kind of discerning opinion from you.

I'd prefer it just be acknowledged the first time.