Pelosi, Schumer To Trump: "Let's Debate Border Funds in Private"

[GMDino]

(12-21-2018, 12:44 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Trump showing he’s a coward once again.

Very weak.

And, as is typical with weak people, they talk tough.

[GMDino]

Trump's insistence that the wall is "DESPERATELY" needed is odd.  We are not being overran at the border...he even tweeted that there are no new caravans forming and border security is doing a great job.

Perhaps he means HE needs it desperately as he promised it?

[Au165]

One of the agencies being shut down....Homeland Security....this is awesome lol.

[*Nately120*]

(12-21-2018, 01:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: One of the agencies being shut down....Homeland Security....this is awesome lol.

I'm monitoring my email to see if I'll have some surprise vacation time coming up, too.

[*bfine32*]

(12-21-2018, 01:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: One of the agencies being shut down....Homeland Security....this is awesome lol.

The Department of Defense is fully funded. What better reason could you have to deploy Troops along the border?

[Au165]

(12-21-2018, 01:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The Department of Defense is fully funded. What better reason could you have to deploy Troops along the border?

Homeland security is not which means customs and border protection isn't and neither is TSA. All of these employees will work for free during a shutdown, nothing says that security is important like using unpaid workers who are bitter about working for free. If people thought dealing with TSA was a pain during holiday travel, now imagine they are there and not being paid.

[GMDino]

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/422467-gop-senators-reject-trump-proposal-to-go-nuclear-on-wall

Quote:GOP senators reject Trump proposal to go 'nuclear' on wall


Senate Republicans quickly rejected President Trump's push that they go "nuclear" and change Senate rules to eliminate the legislative filibuster in order to pass a funding bill with $5 billion for his wall on the Mexican border.

"I’ve long said that eliminating the legislative filibuster would be a mistake," said outgoing Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch(R-Utah) in a string of tweets explaining his position. 

"It’s what’s prevented our country for decades from sliding toward liberalism. It’s inconvenient sometimes, but requiring compromise is in the interest of both parties in the long term," Hatch said.

Retiring GOP Sen. Jeff Flake (Ariz.) pledged that he wouldn't vote to nix the 60-vote filibuster in order to clear money for the border. 
 
"The Senate filibuster is about the only mechanism left in Washington that brings the parties together. Deploying the nuclear option would blow that up. I will not vote to do it," Flake said. 
 
Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), who also is retiring early next month, said he would "continue to follow rules relative to legislation as they exist today as I finish my term." 
 
And Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.), the chairman of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, added that he would also not vote to use the nuclear option. 
 
“We have rules to follow. I want to put a stop to this practice of the Senate breaking its rules to change its rules. I will not vote to turn the Senate into a rule-breaking institution and I hope that my colleagues will not," said Alexander, who announced this week that he would retire at the end of the next Congress.
 
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has repeatedly rejected Trump's request to nix the legislative filibuster, saying there aren't the votes in the Senate to do so. 
 
"With the regard to the filibuster rule, as I've told him repeatedly, the votes aren't there to change it. They just aren't there," McConnell said at an event earlier this year, adding, "I simply disagree with the president about the harm that [the filibuster] does."
 
A spokesman for McConnell said that remains the leader's position.
 
"The Leader has said for years that the votes are not there in the Conference to use the nuclear option. Just this morning, several Senators put out statements confirming their opposition, and confirming that there is not a majority in the conference to go down that road," David Popp, a spokesman for McConnell, said in a statement. 
 
Trump, reversing course to blame Democrats for a partial shutdown, publicly urged McConnell to use the nuclear in a tweet, adding that "our Country is counting on you!"
 
The demand comes as Congress has roughly 13 hours to prevent a partial government shutdown expected to begin Saturday. 
 
Both sides remain far apart on funding for the border with no clear path on how to prevent a lapse in funding that would impact roughly 25 percent of the government. Republicans, including McConnell, went to the White House on Friday morning to talk with Trump.
 
The Senate passed a seven-week stopgap bill on Wednesday but Trump has said he will not sign the bill. House Republicans added $5.7 billion for the border as well as disaster recovery money to the legislation and kicked the shutdown fight back to the Senate. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-21-2018, 09:48 AM)GMDino Wrote: So fully believe everything you wrote but still trust Trump?  Who has scammed more people than your imaginary foreign government?

Yes, because as POTUS, he is held to a higher level of accountably.

The guys in those other countries are not, despite that Matt thinks they are. We've seen it in the past, and we will see it in the future as well. They will do small things like the build a highway or 100 homes project for face value while lining their pockets and their closest allies pockets as well.

now that you are pressuring me. I will change the 100 homes from Cheaply built to nicely built, but guess what, BFine, MichaelSean and I each get 20 of them for our family members to live in. That leaves 40 that i will randomly use a lottery (and of course charge a for it, gotta make a little more money you know, I'm a greedy sob) and have a weekly drawing to give one away each week. If I play my cards right, I can end up with more money than it cost to build the homes. I'm such an evil genius, and there's nothing you can do about it. So what if you don't give me more money next year, my colleagues and I are already rich enough we don't care. Of course though, I will hold my hand out and brag about the good things we have done for my country and tell you what you want to hear in hopes that you give me more.

Oh Shoot, I already figured out my next projects that should be music to your ears. We want to invest in clean energy and bring power to the people (people meaning my colleagues and our families in those new homes get free electric while we charge everyone else).

BTW, it's a shame our people don't have clean drinking water, can you pitch in for that? We gonna make El Salvador Great(I can't say again cause it never was)!! (I'm gonna be rich enough to leave this shitty country once I'm done as the leader if I want to or stay and live like a king).

[Dill]

(12-20-2018, 01:05 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: In a perfect academia world, it could work.

Real world doesn't work like that, we are dealing with greedy humans who will do anything for very little money.
1st reason: Those countries will never be as strong as the US, so people will always want to come here.
2nd reason: When we give money away to Countries, there is zero accountability for how that money is used.
3rd reason: Drugs, guns and poverty is going no where in those countries.

We have been giving monetary aid since 1946, totals to date:

Honduras:  $9.2B
Guatemala: $10B
El Salvador: $13.8B

What have they done with that money?? Their people still trying to flock here.

These numbers don't even include the annual Billions we do in trading with them to help their economies.

As far as Mexico goes? Why didn't NAFTA stop them from coming here? We gave them jobs, boosted trade etc.  Mexicans are still coming here and would still prefer to be in the US vs Mexico. Not much has changed.

Good Luck, more of the same ol same ol

Just noticed this. So many errors I hardly know where to begin.

First the motivation of people leaving the countries mentioned--people who will walk thousands of miles to keep their families alive and safe are motivated by "greed"? 

People just want to come to "strong" countries?

And we have been doing quite a bit more than "giving" money to the aforementioned countries.  We have been re-arranging their governments for them to insure the profitability of American corporations nesting there.  The flow of immigrants from Central America, especially Guatemala and El Salvador, is a direct consequence of civil wars and the instability which followed.  That is how the "real world" works.

Attributing the resulting flow of immigrants/refugees to eternal "poverty" is like claiming "water causes floods and always will" in answer to the question of why there is flooding now where there was none before. Total disconnection between effects and specific causes.

We don't trade with these countries to help their economies. We trade with them to help ours.

NAFTA--"we"-- gave Mexicans jobs???

[Dill]

(12-20-2018, 02:28 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You attempted to put words in my mouth that I did not say. First US is not number one, but compared to the 4 other countries in this conversation we definitely are.

Have you ever been to a poor country and seen first hand how people steal from each other, especially the poor on poor crime??
Have you ever lived in Poverty?

Living in Poverty is not just about being poor, it's also a mentality.

Poor people want money, people with money want more money, people with a lot of money, still want more money.
You will be hard pressed to find people that are content with the amount of money they have.

This is half of my point about just giving those countries money.

Let's say I'm in charge and you just gave me $1B to make my country of 9 million people better.

First I call up BFine.

Just curious--have you ever been to any "poor countries" and witnessed first-hand the "mentality" of the poor, how they "want money" and "steal from each other"?
Have you lived in a "shitty" country for any length of time, learned to speak the language? Studied its history?  If so, which one(s)?

[GMDino]

(12-21-2018, 04:04 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Yes, because as POTUS, he is held to a higher level of accountably.

The guys in those other countries are not, despite that Matt thinks they are. We've seen it in the past, and we will see it in the future as well. They will do small things like the build a highway or 100 homes project for face value while lining their pockets and their closest allies pockets as well.

now that you are pressuring me. I will change the 100 homes from Cheaply built to nicely built, but guess what, BFine, MichaelSean and I each get 20 of them for our family members to live in. That leaves 40 that i will randomly use a lottery (and of course charge a for it, gotta make a little more money you know, I'm a greedy sob) and have a weekly drawing to give one away each week. If I play my cards right, I can end up with more money than it cost to build the homes. I'm such an evil genius, and there's nothing you can do about it. So what if you don't give me more money next year, my colleagues and I are already rich enough we don't care. Of course though, I will hold my hand out and brag about the good things we have done for my country and tell you what you want to hear in hopes that you give me more.

Oh Shoot, I already figured out my next projects that should be music to your ears. We want to invest in clean energy and bring power to the people (people meaning my colleagues and our families in those new homes get free electric while we charge everyone else).

BTW, it's a shame our people don't have clean drinking water, can you pitch in for that? We gonna make El Salvador Great(I can't say again cause it never was)!! (I'm gonna be rich enough to leave this shitty country once I'm done as the leader if I want to or stay and live like a king).

I wonder when someone will hold him accountable for what he says and does?

[*bfine32*]

(12-26-2018, 11:10 AM)GMDino Wrote: I wonder when someone will hold him accountable for what he says and does?

Nov 3, 2020 comes to mind.  

[GMDino]

(12-26-2018, 02:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nov 3, 2020 comes to mind.  

I meant within the confines of his own party that is currently in office.  Short of the sternly worded letter that occasionally comes out it seems the rest of the elected members of the GOP are afraid to challenge him.  Ryan's bending over sans lubrication to add the $5 billion is a good example.  He knew it wouldn't pass the senate but he didn't want to fight and/or try and persuade DJT that the funding wasn't going to happen in this bill but rather he HAD a bipartisan bill to keep the government open and Trump decided to not sign it because Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh complained.

[Belsnickel]

(12-26-2018, 02:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nov 3, 2020 comes to mind.  

The point of the separation of powers and check & balances is so that the branches can hold each other accountable. We shouldn't have to wait until the next election.

[GMDino]

https://www.apnews.com/fdb90c0d40254665982271e12254a65e

Quote:President Donald Trump’s claims over Christmas that he had awarded 115 miles of new border wall construction in Texas appear to confuse work that’s already funded and underway.

Trump tweeted on Monday, “I am in the Oval Office & just gave out a 115 mile long contract for another large section of the Wall in Texas.”

He reiterated on Tuesday that he’s moving forward on construction, even as the government remains partially shutdown over his insistence that Congress approve more money for a border wall.

Neither the White House nor the Department of Homeland Security responded to follow-up questions on Monday or Tuesday, but here’s what’s known about contracts and construction of the wall.
___
TRUMP, asked Tuesday morning about the wall and his Christmas Eve tweet: “Yesterday, I gave out 115 miles’ worth of wall, 115 miles in Texas. It’s going to be built, hopefully rapidly. I’m going there at the end of January for the start of construction.”

THE FACTS: Trump can’t award construction contracts. U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers award contracts for border wall construction after Congress approves funding and months have gone into planning.

In March, Congress approved funding for 33 miles (53 kilometers) of construction in South Texas’ Rio Grande Valley, the busiest corridor for illegal border crossings.

CBP announced in November that construction in the Rio Grande Valley would begin in February. Targeted areas include the nonprofit National Butterfly Center, a state park and privately owned ranches and farmland.
Trump’s statement that he plans to visit the site at the end of January suggests he may be referring to this previously announced construction.
___
TRUMP, speaking Tuesday: “We gave out 115 yesterday, and we gave it out at a great price.”

THE FACTS: It’s unclear where the figure of 115 miles is coming from.

According to DHS , the March funding from Congress will pay for 84 miles (135 kilometers) along the southern border, including the 33 miles (53 kilometers) for Texas. And if the Trump administration gets the $5 billion it’s requested, DHS says it would build 215 miles (346 kilometers) that it considers the “highest priority,” include 159 miles (256 kilometers) in Texas.

Whether DHS got a “great price” on the 33 miles is up for debate. Twocontracts announced by CBP to build 14 of those miles (23 kilometers) total $313 million, or roughly $22 million per mile ($14 million per kilometer).

There’s already 653 miles (1,051 kilometers) of border fence in place, built under the Secure Fence Act passed in 2006. CBP estimated in 2015 that the total cost to build that mileage was $2.3 billion, or roughly $3.5 million a mile ($2.2 million per kilometer). Many of those miles were built with less complicated design or on easier terrain than where CBP wants to build now.
___
TRUMP, asked Tuesday who received the contracts: “Different people. Highly bid.”

THE FACTS: CBP announced in November that Galveston, Texas-based company SLSCO won the two contracts with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for projects in the Rio Grande Valley. Contract notices posted online say that three bids were solicited online and received for each contract. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is working with CBP to plan and build the wall.

Do you supporters ever get tired of being lied too?

[*bfine32*]

(12-26-2018, 05:02 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The point of the separation of powers and check & balances is so that the branches can hold each other accountable. We shouldn't have to wait until the next election.

I don't know if you should have answered me or Dino; however, it doesn't appear we have to wait until next election cycle for checks and balances to do its intended job.

Currently he cannot get funding for his wall because of checks and balances

SCOTUS recently sided with the "Obama judge" on asylum

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-26-2018, 07:58 AM)Dill Wrote: Just curious--have you ever been to any "poor countries" and witnessed first-hand the "mentality" of the poor, how they "want money" and "steal from each other"?
Have you lived in a "shitty" country for any length of time, learned to speak the language? Studied its history?  If so, which one(s)?

Yes, I have. I have spent quite a bit of time in the Philippines. I met my wife there. Typically when something is stolen, it was done by a neighbor. For example, walk the neighborhood after your TV is stolen and you'll find it, cause someone will be bragging about their new TV. Confront them and they will give you the name of the person that sold it to them, follow that one and it's the same, name after name after name and the cops won't do anything cause you have no proof.

Have you ever been in a home where when the cops are chasing someone the start shooting at your roof because the guy jumped on your roof to get away?

The national language is Tagalog, however there is over 100 different dialects in the Phils, If in Cebu, use English or Cebuano, they won't generally speak back to you in Tagalog because they don't recognize is as the national language.

What would you like to know? The Spanish ruled over them for about 3-400 years (can't recall exactly the number of years), so many of the people have Spanish names, Some of their words are slight variations of Spanish, for example. Kamusta vs Como este, Kape vs Café, Guwapo vs Guapo. It is also considered a Christian Nation (Catholic), but the Southern Islands (Mindanao) is heavily populated by Muslims and usually heavily advised by the Embassy to not travel to.

Escrima is a form of stick fighting. Very fun until someone's finger gets smashed, then hurts like hell. It is a Filipino Martial Art.

Chief Lapu-Lapu and his warriors kicked and ended up killing Magellan in the 1521 at the battle of Mactan. if you play mobile games there is a Character in Mobile Legends: Bang-Bang called Lapu-Lapu (a Tribute to the Filpino's that love this game).

I love the food. One of the homes I stayed in didn't have running water. you had to pump it your self if you wanted a bath.
I've lived in Mindoro Occidental (poor area), Manila (big city, but sucks, black dust everywhere), Cebu (nice city and wife and I own and are still buying more land there), Toledo (north of Cebu, poor but at least it had running water).

Wife grew up in the Cemetary Slums of Alaya in Cebu. Not a nice place to be. One of her Uncles just got gunned down last month. Guess he owed someone money. EDIT, all he had on him was 50 pesos, which is like $1 usd and they took it.

Oh and you are frisked before you are allowed to enter a Mall, there is also Guards with Shotguns on every block (banks, fast food restaurants, etc).


but anyways? you?

[GMDino]

[BmorePat87]

(12-26-2018, 09:21 PM)GMDino Wrote:

To be fair, he never said the "weak" sentence. The rest is a mix of various tweets (though in the correct context). 

[Dill]

(12-26-2018, 07:56 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Yes, I have. I have spent quite a bit of time in the Philippines. I met my wife there. Typically when something is stolen, it was done by a neighbor.  For example, walk the neighborhood after your TV is stolen and you'll find it, cause someone will be bragging about their new TV. Confront them and they will give you the name of the person that sold it to them, follow that one and it's the same, name after name after name and the cops won't do anything cause you have no proof. .....

What would you like to know? The Spanish ruled over them for about 3-400 years (can't recall exactly the number of years), so many of the people have Spanish names, Some of their words are slight variations of Spanish, for example. Kamusta vs Como este, Kape vs Café, Guwapo vs Guapo. It is also considered a Christian Nation (Catholic), but the Southern Islands (Mindanao) is heavily populated by Muslims and usually heavily advised by the Embassy to not travel to.

I love the food. One of the homes I stayed in didn't have running water. you had to pump it your self if you wanted a bath.
I've lived in Mindoro Occidental (poor area), Manila (big city, but sucks, black dust everywhere), Cebu (nice city and wife and I own and are still buying more land there), Toledo (north of Cebu, poor but at least it had running water).

Wife grew up in the Cemetary Slums of Alaya in Cebu. Not a nice place to be. One of her Uncles just got gunned down last month. Guess he owed someone money. EDIT, all he had on him was 50 pesos, which is like $1 usd and they took it.

Oh and you are frisked before you are allowed to enter a Mall, there is also Guards with Shotguns on every block (banks, fast food restaurants, etc).

but anyways? you?

Thanks for the many-sided response. What I would like to know is, are the crime and poverty rates uniform throughout the islands or do you see variations from north to south,  urban to rural areas, and across ethnic/linguistic boundaries? Two contrasting examples of such variations would be interesting to hear about, if you have noticed any. May have more specific questions then. Almost forgot, any changes across time, e.g. pre-Duterte vs the present?

Second, so far as you can tell, is there any pronounced difference in behavior between U.S. and Filipino poor when it comes to burglary/crime? Or is the primary difference you point to regarding the police response? (Trying to assess what you mean by "mentality"--norms maybe, or what is accepted as such?)

Finally, in the post to which I originally responded, were you extending your experience in the Philippines to Central America?  Did you observe local politicians taking aid money, building themselves homes, etc., and then presume the same was happening in Guatemala or El Salvador?  Also, are you assuming security and poverty levels are similar to the Philippines?  The murder rate per 100,000 inhabitants is 55.52 in the Honduras, for example, as opposed to 11 in the Philippines.

I have spent about 6 years living or otherwise staying/traveling in developing countries, not all of them poor though. I just returned from Cambodia, which is VERY poor, but where, at least in Phnom Penh neighborhoods I am familiar with, a tv thief would be accorded justice by the local community.  There is theft but mostly of tourist property; very unlikely for people in a neighborhood to steal from each other.  Poor in Cambodian villages still maintain a kind of village ethic of caring for one another--like pooling money so some one can get a motorbike or even go to college. This carries into the city as well, where individual neighborhoods grow into organic communities.  Sounds like the situation is very different in the Philippines, if someone can steal a tv from a community member and brag about a new tv.   Some info from you about your Philippine experience could help me better understand how poverty may actually be lived very differently in different countries.