Pelosi, Schumer To Trump: "Let's Debate Border Funds in Private"

[*bfine32*]

(01-07-2019, 12:46 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is the infuriating thing to me. The bill that just passed the House was literally approved unanimously by the Senate less than a month ago. Suddenly it's a non-starter because the Democrats are in charge of the House? This party over country bullshit is getting ridiculous.

Why did the one the Senate approved not pass the House?

[GMDino]

(01-07-2019, 01:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why did the one the Senate approved not pass the House?

Because it was not the same bill.  This one added 5.6 billion for a "wall".

It didn't have enough votes to pass.

[BmorePat87]

(01-07-2019, 01:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why did the one the Senate approved not pass the House?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/27/us/politics/government-shutdown-trump-democrats.html

Quote: When Democrats sent Representative Jim McGovern of Massachusetts to the floor to try to force consideration of a stopgap funding bill that the Senate had already passed, Republicans would not recognize him.

[Belsnickel]

(01-07-2019, 01:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why did the one the Senate approved not pass the House?

(01-07-2019, 01:50 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/27/us/politics/government-shutdown-trump-democrats.html

Yup. Republicans in the House wouldn't let it on the floor.

[Belsnickel]

(01-07-2019, 01:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: Because it was not the same bill.  This one added 5.6 billion for a "wall".

It didn't have enough votes to pass.

This is wrong. The bill from the Senate did not have the border wall funding and there were enough votes to pass it, because the Democrats would have voted for it. It didn't pass the House because Republican leadership never brought it to a vote.

[*bfine32*]

(01-07-2019, 01:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: Because it was not the same bill.  This one added 5.6 billion for a "wall".

It didn't have enough votes to pass.

Well if that's correct then calling them basically the same bill is a little less than honest

(01-07-2019, 01:50 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/27/us/politics/government-shutdown-trump-democrats.html

If this is why the Senate passed bill was not voted on by the house then the GOP should be shamed.

[GMDino]

(01-07-2019, 01:54 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is wrong. The bill from the Senate did not have the border wall funding and there were enough votes to pass it, because the Democrats would have voted for it. It didn't pass the House because Republican leadership never brought it to a vote.

After Trump refused to sign the first one?

[GMDino]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/politics/trump-calling-shutdown-strike/index.html

Quote:President Donald Trump told congressional leaders during a meeting Friday to try to negotiate terms to re-open the government and that he preferred the word "strike" in describing the ongoing government shutdown, a person familiar with the meeting and a Democratic aide told CNN.


Trump also kicked off the meeting with a profanity laden opening salvo lasting more than 15 minutes in which he made it clear that he had no plans to move on from his demand for $5.6 billion to build a border wall, according to a person familiar with the meeting.


Trump also addressed the issue of impeachment, directing his remarks at House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, according to two people familiar with what happened inside the room. Pelosi, in response, told him the meeting was supposed to be about re-opening the government, not impeachment, the people said.


The Wall Street Journal earlier reported on Trump's preference for calling the shutdown a "strike."


The White House did not immediately respond to CNN's request for comment.



The shutdown stretched into its 13th day Friday, with no signs of either side relenting on their stance over Trump's request for additional funding for a border wall, even after the meeting.



According to two people familiar with what happened inside the room, Trump told the leaders his hard number was $5.6 billion for border wall funding, and he wasn't willing to negotiate. That was when he made clear that it didn't matter how long it would take -- months, years, "even to the election," according to those people.


Trump also "said he'd keep the government closed for a very long period of time -- months or even years," according to Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer, who was also at the Friday morning meeting and spoke to reporters in the White House driveway.


"Absolutely I said that," Trump affirmed from the Rose Garden shortly afterward. "I don't think it will, but I'm prepared."

Talks at the staff level will continue Saturday, but even those were clouded with confusion in the wake of the meeting. Trump said during his Rose Garden remarks that a working group had been formed to continue negotiations, led by Vice President Mike Pence. But Democratic officials familiar with the meeting said the idea of a specific "working group" never came up during the meeting, only that Pence had suggested staff discussions. 


In the hours immediately following Trump's remarks, the make up of who would meet this weekend -- and what the group would represent -- appeared to be a point of confusion for both sides.


Invitations were eventually sent for leadership staff from both parties to meet at the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, which sits next to the White House and where Pence has an office. The meeting, which Pence is expected to attend and lead, will take place at 11 a.m. Saturday.

[BmorePat87]

(01-07-2019, 01:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If this is why the Senate passed bill was not voted on by the house then the GOP should be shamed.

Both parties are guilty of tactics like this, refusing to even consider legislation, likely out of fear that their party may actually vote against leadership. In this case, it's the Republicans. I imagine Pelosi would do the same if a Republican introduced a funding bill with border wall funding. 

I believe the talking point was "we will not consider legislation that does not include border wall funding", but I think House Republican leadership feared their party would support it and was actually seeking to protect Trump because if the bill passed and he vetoed it, the shutdown would be squarely on him. Now Mitch McConnell feels compelled to do the same. 

[Belsnickel]

(01-07-2019, 01:55 PM)GMDino Wrote: After Trump refused to sign the first one?

This is how it all went: the Senate passed a bill, unanimously, to fund the government at current levels throughout the fiscal year, except for DHS, which it would fund for a month so that further discussions could be had about border security. Then Trump got called out by Coulter and some of the other talking heads for caving, so he buckled down. At this point, the House leadership wouldn't put the Senate bill on the floor because doing so would've meant the passage, with a veto-proof majority, of a bill Trump didn't want.

(01-07-2019, 03:45 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Both parties are guilty of tactics like this, refusing to even consider legislation, likely out of fear that their party may actually vote against leadership. In this case, it's the Republicans. I imagine Pelosi would do the same if a Republican introduced a funding bill with border wall funding. 

I believe the talking point was "we will not consider legislation that does not include border wall funding", but I think House Republican leadership feared their party would support it and was actually seeking to protect Trump because if the bill passed and he vetoed it, the shutdown would be squarely on him. Now Mitch McConnell feels compelled to do the same. 

Yup, this is spot on. What makes this instance a bit more obvious than others is that the Senate is now refusing to consider a bill it has already passed once, with a veto-proof majority. But while this instance seems more egregious than others, it isn't a tactic either side has a monopoly on.

[GMDino]

(01-07-2019, 09:34 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is how it all went: the Senate passed a bill, unanimously, to fund the government at current levels throughout the fiscal year, except for DHS, which it would fund for a month so that further discussions could be had about border security. Then Trump got called out by Coulter and some of the other talking heads for caving, so he buckled down. At this point, the House leadership wouldn't put the Senate bill on the floor because doing so would've meant the passage, with a veto-proof majority, of a bill Trump didn't want.


Yup, this is spot on. What makes this instance a bit more obvious than others is that the Senate is now refusing to consider a bill it has already passed once, with a veto-proof majority. But while this instance seems more egregious than others, it isn't a tactic either side has a monopoly on.

So there is no bill with the money for the wall even approved by the Senate?  I guess I had that wrong.  Thanks.

Kinda of adder this way that they could have passed the thing over DJT's veto but wouldn't do it.

[GMDino]

[BmorePat87]

Talks today did not last long when Trump walked out of a meeting with Congressional Democrats after Pelosi said she would not support a wall.

[Belsnickel]

(01-09-2019, 06:28 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Talks today did not last long when Trump walked out of a meeting with Congressional Democrats after Pelosi said she would not support a wall.

Eventually, there will be enough pressure from Senate Republicans that McConnell will have to take up the House bill, which will pass with another veto proof majority. What we are seeing right now, and what Trump's speech last night was about, is trying to convince the country that the Democrats are in the wrong so that they buckle. My understanding of the polling on this issue, though, is that it is going in the opposite direction to make that happen. We'll see what the coming days bring, though.

[BmorePat87]

(01-09-2019, 06:33 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Eventually, there will be enough pressure from Senate Republicans that McConnell will have to take up the House bill, which will pass with another veto proof majority. What we are seeing right now, and what Trump's speech last night was about, is trying to convince the country that the Democrats are in the wrong so that they buckle. My understanding of the polling on this issue, though, is that it is going in the opposite direction to make that happen. We'll see what the coming days bring, though.

538 looked at 3 polls that polled voters early in the shutdown and recently. All 3 showed a 4% increase in blame for Trump, from an average of 45% to 49%.

Blame for Democrats was an average of 33% and remained unchanged (less than a percent average decrease). 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-has-lost-ground-in-the-shutdown-blame-game/

[Belsnickel]

(01-09-2019, 06:43 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: 538 looked at 3 polls that polled voters early in the shutdown and recently. All 3 showed a 4% increase in blame for Trump, from an average of 45% to 49%.

Blame for Democrats was an average of 33% and remained unchanged (less than a percent average decrease). 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-has-lost-ground-in-the-shutdown-blame-game/

Well sure, if you want to hand them the information.

[GMDino]

When I asked @POTUS if the buck stops with him he tells me: “The buck stops with everyone.”

— Kristen Welker (@kwelkernbc) January 10, 2019

[GMDino]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/04/us/politics/fact-check-trump-shutdown.html

Part of the article:

Quote:Most federal workers, even those with rent owed and bills due, would gladly forgo their paycheck as a measure of support for his $5.6 billion border wall, President Trump said on Friday.


He also noted that Mexico would actually be paying for the wall through a new trade agreement, which at the very least raised the question of why the government had to be shut down over a funding dispute involving American tax dollars if the funding was coming from another country. And then there was a Plan C: He said he could use “emergency powers” to build the wall.

The wall was needed for many reasons, Mr. Trump said. Stopping drug and human trafficking, and a nonspecific reference to a torrent of terrorists and coyotes easily flowing in over the southern border. “They drive right in, and they make a left,” he said.

But there also was sunshine amid the gloom. Mr. Trump spoke of a stunningly positive jobs report and a stock market that soared, at least for a day. Lower gas prices? One person to thank.


In his first meeting about a shutdown with Representative Nancy Pelosi and Senator Chuck Schumer in the Oval Office last month, the president forcefully said that he alone would own the shutdown. On Friday, he was selling shares in it. “You can call it the Schumer or the Pelosi or the Trump shutdown,” he said. “Doesn’t make any difference to me. It’s just words.”


Could he reach a compromise with Democrats to end the shutdown by coupling wall funding with a pathway to citizenship for the young immigrants known as Dreamers? Mr. Trump responded that Democrats lost interest as soon as the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit upheld an injunction against his administration’s termination of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program. (A deal on the program and to avoid an earlier government shutdown in early 2018 faltered last January, after Mr. Trump made vulgar remarks on immigration. The court ruled on the case in November.)


That was such a bad decision from the court, Mr. Trump asserted, that even his predecessor, “when he signed the DACA, with the executive order, made a statement to the effect, this isn’t going to work.” (President Barack Obama did not sign an executive order to implement the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program. He announced it as a Department of Homeland Security policy in a speech in 2012. He did not say it would not work, but called it a “temporary stopgap.”)

[GMDino]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/10/mike-pence-2014-using-presidential-powers-immigration-reform-is-not-leadership/2528793002/

 

Quote:Long before President Donald Trump considered declaring a national emergency to free up money for a wall along the southern border, his vice president criticized the idea of the White House making an end run around Congress.



Vice President Mike Pence, speaking on a Republican Governors Association panel in 2014, attacked the idea of using presidential powers to act unilaterally in the face of congressional opposition. 


The then governor of Indiana said that "barnstorming around the country defending" such measures was "not leadership." Leadership, he argued, came with negotiating and finding "common ground."


Pence, in his comments, was specifically targeting former President Barack Obama, a Democrat, and the executive orders he announced on Nov. 20, 2014, one day after the conference. 


Although the positions were reversed, Obama was also frustrated by a lack of congressional action for what he viewed as a broken immigration system


VIDEO of Pence's comments in 2014.


More: What to know about national emergencies and their role in US history
More: Government shutdown: Trump tours border, claims Democrats 'losing the argument'
More: President Trump could declare a national emergency. But would that get him funds for a wall?


Obama's order shielded up to 5 million immigrants from deportation and bolstered protections for "DREAMers," people who were brought to the U.S. illegally as children . Obama's order followed an impasse with the Republicans in Congress, who during elections that month took control of both the Senate and House. The White House at the time said allow Obama's orders were steps to "fix our broken immigration system." 

Republicans blasted Obama for acting unilaterally, and the Supreme Court ultimately struck down the plan in 2016.   


Pence said Obama's order was a "profound mistake" and said he didn't believe that the president should be able to "overturn American immigration law with the stroke of a pen." 


"I believe that issues of this magnitude should always be resolved with the consent of the governed," Pence said in 2014. 


As the White House faces opposition from congressional Democrats, Pence seems to view the situation differently.


“The president believes he has an absolute right to declare a national emergency,” Pence told reporters on Capitol Hill on Thursday. “The president is going to get this done one way or the other.”


Alyssa Farah, press secretary for Pence, said in a statement to USA TODAY about the 2014 comments that the president has "every right" to use his executive powers because Democrats have "refused to negotiate."

[Au165]

Trump will attempt the emergency move, then open the government. The emergency move will be challenged in court and eventually will lose, however it will then give him an out to re open the government while still "building the wall" even though it will still never be built.