President Donald Trump

[Arturo Bandini]

(07-25-2022, 01:39 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: But "starting with God," as you call it, is just your own standard that you, or at least Christianity as a whole, decided upon. 

I laugh every time people think God are on their side and that his justice is what they think. All the time.

[*Nately120*]

(07-25-2022, 01:52 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: and you lose me when you automatic go to insults. it seems like its easier for you to belittle someone so then you dont have to do the work of actually looking at what i'm saying to hard. this seems to be common around here and i dont know why its allowed but its not my call. i never insulted you. i tried to explain and you would rather belittle me.

Some may argue your unwavering assertion that God is on your side and using that as a trump card tool for political debate is a bit insulting. 

[Leon]

(07-25-2022, 01:39 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: But "starting with God," as you call it, is just your own standard that you, or at least Christianity as a whole, decided upon. 

the way i see it, you either start with God or you don't. thats the only two options. if you dont, then there's no standard for objective that i can see. we can look to God the bible and general revaltion to determine right and wrong. without God i don't see anyway to have a standard that isn't just opinion. your opinion could end up being correct but it's just a roll of the dice.

[hollodero]

(07-25-2022, 01:52 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: and you lose me when you automatic go to insults. it seems like its easier for you to belittle someone so then you dont have to do the work of actually looking at what i'm saying to hard. this seems to be common around here and i dont know why its allowed but its not my call. i never insulted you. i tried to explain and you would rather belittle me.

Yeah you playing offended does not interest me much either. Nor does the attempt to belittle me with an accusation of belittling you.

[*Nately120*]

(07-25-2022, 01:58 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: the way i see it, you either start with God or you don't. thats the only two options. if you dont, then there's no standard for objective that i can see. we can look to God the bible and general revaltion to determine right and wrong. without God i don't see anyway to have a standard that isn't just opinion. your opinion could end up being correct but it's just a roll of the dice.

I'll admit the part about not killing people appeals to me, but it seems lost on our society. 

[GMDino]

(07-25-2022, 01:55 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: I laugh every time people think God are on their side and that his justice is what they think. All the time.

Wish I could find the quote but it goes something along the lines of isn't it amazing that every time someone has God talk to them he tells them exactly what they want to hear.

[Leon]

(07-25-2022, 01:57 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Some may argue your unwavering assertion that God is on your side and using that as a trump card tool for political debate is a bit insulting. 

my beliefs aren't namecalling or personal insults. ive seen a lot of people here share alot of beliefs and stick to them but for some reason i keep getting attacked for sharing mine. i disagree with a lot of things you say, buy when have i ever attacked you as a person or belittled you. big difference friend. 

[Leon]

(07-25-2022, 02:02 PM)GMDino Wrote: Wish I could find the quote but it goes something along the lines of isn't it amazing that every time someone has God talk to them he tells them exactly what they want to hear.

this just isnt true. there are many times God will not give us what we think we want because he knows its not the right thing for us. 

[*Nately120*]

(07-25-2022, 02:04 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: my beliefs aren't namecalling or personal insults. ive seen a lot of people here share alot of beliefs and stick to them but for some reason i keep getting attacked for sharing mine. i disagree with a lot of things you say, buy when have i ever attacked you as a person or belittled you. big difference friend. 

Im not belittling you outside of your rubber banding yourself and Trump to God.  Personally, the American gops insistence their brand of jingoistic oppression is the only road for the followers of Christ is what turned me off of things decades ago.

You can treat God as your tag team partner if you like. I don't mind a challenge,  but I shouldn't be treated like a deplorable for pointing out that it doesn't jive with my discipline related view of faith. 

[CJD]

(07-25-2022, 01:58 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: the way i see it, you either start with God or you don't. thats the only two options. if you dont, then there's no standard for objective that i can see. we can look to God the bible and general revaltion to determine right and wrong. without God i don't see anyway to have a standard that isn't just opinion. your opinion could end up being correct but it's just a roll of the dice.

But even with God, the standard is just opinion. At some point, Christians took the Bible (I have no stake in the discussion of whether the Bible is "truth" or not) and decided which pieces of the Bible to follow as their standard. For example, a lot of the Old Testament has been thrown out by 99.99% of Christians because it is too archaic for modern times. Putting adulterers to death, wearing wool and linen blends, sowing different crops in the same field etc.

So what is followed in the Bible and what is not followed is based on the opinion of the majority of Christians as to what is and is not acceptable in today's society.

Standards being opinion based is unavoidable. 

[GMDino]

https://www.worldhistory.org/timeline/religion/

[Leon]

(07-25-2022, 01:59 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah you playing offended does not interest me much either. Nor does the attempt to belittle me with an accusation of belittling you.

our talk here is sort nof a microscope on the problems today. one side try to explain there positions. the other side insults, laughs and dismisses. this is why republicans will win big in 2024 and trump supporters will be a big part of it. people are tired of the other side looking down there noses at us and mocking us. i just dont understand but one side will be in complete control because it.

[*Nately120*]

(07-25-2022, 02:19 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: our talk here is sort nof a microscope on the problems today. one side try to explain there positions. the other side insults, laughs and dismisses. this is why republicans will win big in 2024 and trump supporters will be a big part of it. people are tired of the other side looking down there noses at us and mocking us. i just dont understand but one side will be in complete control because it.

Ah yes, civility from the F Biden and F you for voting from him crowd. 

Plank in your eye speck in mine, stuff. 

[Leon]

(07-25-2022, 02:13 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: But even with God, the standard is just opinion. At some point, Christians took the Bible (I have no stake in the discussion of whether the Bible is "truth" or not) and decided which pieces of the Bible to follow as their standard. For example, a lot of the Old Testament has been thrown out by 99.99% of Christians because it is too archaic for modern times. Putting adulterers to death, wearing wool and linen blends, sowing different crops in the same field etc.

So what is followed in the Bible and what is not followed is based on the opinion of the majority of Christians as to what is and is not acceptable in today's society.

Standards being opinion based is unavoidable. 

you have to be able to seperate what was clearly words of man with what were words of God. we do that by studying the Bible and using general and special revelation. once you do that it gets clear as day. you have to be willing to accept the Word before you can truly understand it. if anyone comes with an open mind and open heart, God will help you every step of the way.

[*Nately120*]

(07-25-2022, 02:25 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: you have to be able to seperate what was clearly words of man with what were words of God. we do that by studying the Bible and using general and special revelation. once you do that it gets clear as day. you have to be willing to accept the Word before you can truly understand it. if anyone comes with an open mind and open heart, God will help you every step of the way.

I'll admit this stuff is a lot more reasonable without the GOP talking points laced throughout. 

[Leon]

(07-25-2022, 02:21 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ah yes, civility from the F Biden and F you for voting from him crowd. 

Plank in your eye speck in mine, stuff. 

you do know that not all of us do that or believe in that. just like all biden folks dont believe in catholic church. you cant put everyone in the same box or keep plucking examples of some to label every body. i lnow its easier that way but it isnt productive.

[hollodero]

(07-25-2022, 02:19 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: our talk here is sort nof a microscope on the problems today.

Almost as if by design. Intelligent one, one might assume.

(07-25-2022, 02:19 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: one side try to explain there positions. the other side insults, laughs and dismisses. this is why republicans will win big in 2024 and trump supporters will be a big part of it. people are tired of the other side looking down there noses at us and mocking us. i just dont understand but one side will be in complete control because it.

Well, we apparently lead a fake conversation. Aside from that, I did not laugh at you or belittle you. And I gave you a direct response to your point, one every real devout Christian Trump supporter has to face, which is how a devout Christian can support a man that had multiple wives, betrays them with porn stars, uses profanity that would every Christian 10-year-old grounded, is rich and greedy and braggadocious, almost literally builds towers of Babel with his name on it and claimed that he does not have to ask god for forgiveness for he never did anything wrong. That man commits the seven mortal sins on a daily basis and that's not even an exaggeration. It's an apparent point to make.

Don't throw fake outrage on me for making this point. The answer a Christian Trump supporter would have is "God works in mysterious ways and often chooses bad people to do good things". You could have gone with that instead of going after me, but I guess that was less fun and I understand.

[*Nately120*]

(07-25-2022, 02:30 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: you do know that not all of us do that or believe in that. just like all biden folks dont believe in catholic church. you cant put everyone in the same box or keep plucking examples of some to label every body. i lnow its easier that way but it isnt productive.

You can decry broad brush strokes, but im confident you have some predictable views on some of our favorite groups, too. 

At any rate, you're able to declare yourself civil and favored and the inevitable winner, so I can't knock you on that. You've got it figured out in that sense.  

[CJD]

(07-25-2022, 02:25 PM)Tiger Blood Wrote: you have to be able to seperate what was clearly words of man with what were words of God. we do that by studying the Bible and using general and special revelation. once you do that it gets clear as day. you have to be willing to accept the Word before you can truly understand it. if anyone comes with an open mind and open heart, God will help you every step of the way.

So is there a guide for which words in the Bible are words of man and which are words of God? Or is it ever changing based on society's standards? Was one sentence that was previously thought to be God's words, and thus meant for an objective standard of morality, later determined to be man's words once that belief was no longer mainstream enough to be acceptable?

[Leon]

(07-25-2022, 02:37 PM)hollodero Wrote: Almost as if by design. Intelligent one, one might assume.



Well, we apparently lead a fake conversation. Aside from that, I did not laugh at you or belittle you. And I gave you a direct response to your point, one every real devout Christian Trump supporter has to face, which is how a devout Christian can support a man that had multiple wives, betrays them with porn stars, uses profanity that would every Christian 10-year-old grounded, is rich and greedy and braggadocious, almost literally builds towers of Babel with his name on it and claimed that he does not have to ask god for forgiveness for he never did anything wrong. That man commits the seven mortal sins on a daily basis and that's not even an exaggeration. It's an apparent point to make.

Don't throw fake outrage on me for making this point. The answer a Christian Trump supporter would have is "God works in mysterious ways and often chooses bad people to do good things". You could have gone with that instead of going after me, but I guess that was less fun and I understand.

i've made that exact point in other threads already its the truth, not just an answer.. its the most common rebutal cause its a fact that cant be denied. God only has imperfect people to work with. you may think trump or anyone else is not worthy, but in Gods eyes everyone is. remember what Jesus said about casting the first stone to an imperfect person. God can use them to very good ends. we all fall short of God, but it doesn't mean we cant be valuable in helping or serving his goals, even if we might not know it.

also you keep wanting to put us all in the same box. not every religious person or republican or trump supporter thimks exactly the same or has the exact same ideas.